Best mage class - please advise!! :)

szdobos

Hi there,
I made a little experiment, on the mage classes, to choose the best specialis mage.
There are a few spells, that cant cast:
Conjurer: detect evil, d. illusion and d. alignment, the true sight, and the wizard eye
Invoker: hold person, emotion, greater malison, confusion and chaos
Necromancer: invisibility, mislead, mirror image, simulacrum
Illusioner: horror, spiritual armor, death spell, finger of death, abu dalzim
Abjurer: haste, slow, stoneskin, disintegrate, wizard eye

The rest is very bad, so the diviner, enhancer and transmuter is not an option. Wild mage... No.
Also the saveing bonus are only important at the invoker and conjurer class spells.

Sooo, what should I choose?
Due to save vs spell bonus the best is invoker, but the penalty of missing the chaos spell is very bad. Also the graeter malison is an important spell.
The conjurer is good, but the divination spells are very interesting. The true sight very important.
And the abjurer cant get any bonus save vs spell because of the protective spells. Stoneskin one of the best protective spells for mages.

Pff.... I cant decide.

Brude

In BG, specialists can still cast spells outside their school by using scrolls.

That said: Conjurer or Illusionist.

You don't lose anything significant by going Conjurer, although you won't be able to make a PC that's as good at it as Edwin.

A gnome Illusionist gives you access to a superior starting INT without costing you much in the way of spells (at least in the first game. In BG2, some champion the use of Finger of Death and Horrid Wilting).

Another alternative: If Tutu or BG:EE, go Sorcerer. You get all of the advantages of a specialist mage without any of the drawbacks and have much more flexibility with stats at character creation.

szdobos

To cast from opposing school by using scrolls not changed???

Brude

szdobos said:

To cast from opposing school by using scrolls not changed???

You didn't specify in which game you were rolling the character. In BG1, mages can cast any spell from scrolls. In BG2, they're locked out of their opposing school completely.

szdobos

Oh, in bg ee!

Quartz

In BG:EE they have made it so you can't cast your opposition school from scrolls.

Conjurer or Sorcerer. If you're a newbie I would advise Conjurer though because Sorcerer very much requires knowing *exactly* what you want and need. Conjurer, the worst things you miss out on are Identify and True Sight ... not exactly the end of the world.

ryuken87

Of the specialist mages, Conjurer loses the least. True Sight is the only good spell you will be without and there are no Divination spells at all after level 6. True Sight can be compensated for with the equivalent cleric spell, the Book of Infinite Spells and a thief's Detect Illusion.

szdobos

Tat the invoker: the chaos still there at the clerical spells, but the invoker has a lot of spell, where the save vs spell bonus are important! Am I wrong?? To summon a creature, there is no svings at the enemy. So in this way, the invoker is better I think.

Quartz

Invoker is bad. It is the only specialist mage that has 2 whopping opposition schools. Invoker is literally the worst specialist mage there is.

szdobos

In bg ee there is only one opposing school! the charm so the only vital spell is chaos/confusion.

sebas

Go Wild Mage. If not, go Sorcerer. If not, go Conjurer.

Mortianna

Unless you plan on having another mage or bard in your party, I wouldn't go with a Conjurer. Several spells in the Divination school are useful throughout the game (especially Identify), and we'll now have access to the spells from BG2/ToB, like Oracle and Detect Illusion (True Sight probably won't be available, since it's a 6th level spell).

Honestly, you can make any specialist wizard work. It just depends on whether role-playing or power-gaming is your priority.

GygaxianProse

Pick the one that seems coolest. I've had great success with both Diviner and Abjurer. Invoker kicks all kinds of ass as well.
I guess you need to decide what type of spell you really can't do without.
The regular mage is also a viable option, though that hurts at low level.

JuliusBorisov

I always played, if mage, as Invoker. This school has the most frequently used spells (even if anybody tells you this is not true, don't listen): Magic Missile, Stinking Cloud, Web, Fireball, Cloudkill!!! You just don't need to charm enemies if you kill them all quickly. For me, it's no-brainer for newbies.
And if you have some experience in playing BG, then choose Sorcerer. For me, it's no-brainer too.

moody_mage

Illusionist.

Because you can be a gnome, and gnomes are full of win.

elminster

@decado except on romancing NPC's

moody_mage

@elminster
I think you know my viewpoints on romancing NPCs This makes gnomes EVEN BETTER (something I didn't think possible).

Oxford_Guy

elminster said:

@decado except on romancing NPC's

Gnomes can romance Aerie, if they want to get some

CaptRory

The famous Gnomish lover and ladder repairman, Casanunder.

moody_mage

@Oxford_Guy
Ain't no Aerie in BG:EE. Therefore Gnomes win! The end.

Quartz

Mortianna said:

Unless you plan on having another mage or bard in your party, I wouldn't go with a Conjurer. Several spells in the Divination school are useful throughout the game (especially Identify), and we'll now have access to the spells from BG2/ToB, like Oracle and Detect Illusion (True Sight probably won't be available, since it's a 6th level spell).

Honestly, you can make any specialist wizard work. It just depends on whether role-playing or power-gaming is your priority.

I highly agree with your final statement (last two sentences).

Your first paragraph is a joke though, those spells are trash. Oracle seriously? lololol. Detect Illusion is also crap compared to the Clerical Invisibility Purge. Identify and True Sight are the only decent ones. And besides, who wouldn't have either another mage or bard in the party? I think it's pretty easy to say that most people double up on arcane spellcasters.

Now as far as role-playing goes. Yeah then it's whatever. I'm like you, I enjoy role-playing Necromancer. Especially vanilla BG1 Cleric 7/Dual-classed Necromancer 8. Pure sexiness.

That said, Diviner is AWESOME in table-top D&D. Unfortunately Divination is rather poorly implemented into Baldur's Gate. A shame, but not surprising.

elminster

Oxford_Guy said:

elminster said:

@decado except on romancing NPC's

Gnomes can romance Aerie, if they want to get some

Without spoiling anything I'm going to say yes and no.

AlexDeLarge

You should add Abjurer to that list of very bad specialists, just look at what spells he can't cast! 2 of the most crucial, Stoneskin and Haste. With that said, i don't like any of these. Sure, Conjurer is great, but as someone pointed out, we already have Edwin in the game, and he will be a better Conjurer than ur main no matter what (especially in BG2). There's also a Necromancer - Xzar, an Enchanter - Xan, an Illusionist - Jan and an Invoker - Dynaheir, available in the trilogy.

So, for uniqueness' sake, i would just roll a Sorcerer!

TJ_Hooker

I found this list of supposed benefits to being a specialist mage:

* One extra spell slot per level
* +1 vs. spells saving throws, from speclialized school, against spells
* enemies suffer -1 vs. spells saving throws against spells cast from the mage's specialized school
* +15% to learning from specialized school
* Automatically gains one new spell to spellbook, from specialized school, when gains new spell level

Also they apparently get a -15% penalty to learn spells from any school other than their specialty.

Does anyone know if all of these were actually implemented? The only one I knew of was the extra spell at each spell level.

Quartz

TJ_Hooker said:

Does anyone know if all of these were actually implemented? The only one I knew of was the extra spell at each spell level.

I'm pretty sure that's the only thing implemented. Sorry to break it to ya.

Oxford_Guy

Quartz said:

TJ_Hooker said:

Does anyone know if all of these were actually implemented? The only one I knew of was the extra spell at each spell level.

I'm pretty sure that's the only thing implemented. Sorry to break it to ya.

That and the fact that they can't cast any spells from their opposing school (not even from scrolls, I think). This is why Conjurer is best, as the Divination opposing school isn't that great.

Also you can't dual class to a specialist mage

Space_hamster

Gnome Illusionists KICK ASS. I played one through BG and BGII, he was a cheeky little devil.

That said, there is an appeal of the necromancer, if one wants to roleplay. They get some killer summoning spells, plus all that death stuff. Lots of fun.

TJ_Hooker

Quartz said:

TJ_Hooker said:

Does anyone know if all of these were actually implemented? The only one I knew of was the extra spell at each spell level.

I'm pretty sure that's the only thing implemented. Sorry to break it to ya.

Mmk, yeah that's what I figured. I think it would have been neat if they had actually implemented the bonuses and penalties to saves though. Then there would actually be some incentive to pick your specialization based on which school has your favourite spells, rather than just choosing based on which costs you the least spells from their opposition school.

Quartz

Oxford_Guy said:

Quartz said:

TJ_Hooker said:

Does anyone know if all of these were actually implemented? The only one I knew of was the extra spell at each spell level.

I'm pretty sure that's the only thing implemented. Sorry to break it to ya.

That and the fact that they can't cast any spells from their opposing school (not even from scrolls, I think). This is why Conjurer is best, as the Divination opposing school isn't that great.

Also you can't dual class to a specialist mage

You could in vanilla BG. I'm going to miss Cleric 7 -> Necromancer 8. =\

sandmanCCL

I'm partial to enchanter, myself. If they ever implement the saving throw bonuses to your chosen school, I'd say enchanter hands down.

A lot of people are going to say I'm crazy. "This really hurts your offensive capabilities!" they decry.

Who cares. That's what warriors are for. Mages are for crowd control!

Level 1:
Spells you give up- Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile, Shield
Viable alternatives- Sleep (by the time it doesn't really work anymore, you'll have access to higher level spells you'd want to use anyway.) Larloch's Minor Drain (more utility than damage, it's still handy in a pinch), Burning Hands (lacks the punch of Orb or MM, but is still damage and has minor AOE capabilities)

Level 2:
Spells you give up- Aganazzar's Scorcher, Stinking Cloud, Web
Viable alternatives- Melf's Acid Arrow, Horror

Level 3:
Give up- Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Melf's Minute Meteors
Alternatives- Skull Trap, Vampiric Touch, Slow, Haste, Hold Person, Dire Charm, and the list goes on.

Also, consumable item Wand of Fireballs.

Level 4:
Give up- Fireshield Red/Blue, Ice Storm, Minor Sequencer (admittedly a big loss)
Alternatives - Honestly, the only damage spell at all for level 4 is Ice Storm. This is THE level for buff/debuff spells so I'd be really surprised if you used your 4th level slots on Ice Storm or Fireshield over Emotion: Hopelessness or Stoneskin anyway.

Level 5:
Give up- Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Phantom Blade, Sunfire
Alternatives- Again, not a lot in the way of damage but even when I play mages who CAN use these spells, the only one that sees any use is Sunfire. Cloudkill is really good but in a cheesy way because there aren't a lot of situations where you can use it in the middle of a fight without killing your own guys too. 5th level stuff for me is almost exclusively Breach in BG2. With new BG2 spells, I can see myself spamming Hold Monster and Domination.

Space_hamster

My favorite character was a Gnome Illusionist/Thief with 19 int. Power house!