Unless you plan on having another mage or bard in your party, I wouldn't go with a Conjurer. Several spells in the Divination school are useful throughout the game (especially Identify), and we'll now have access to the spells from BG2/ToB, like Oracle and Detect Illusion (True Sight probably won't be available, since it's a 6th level spell).
Honestly, you can make any specialist wizard work. It just depends on whether role-playing or power-gaming is your priority.
I highly agree with your final statement (last two sentences).
Your first paragraph is a joke though, those spells are trash. Oracle seriously? lololol. Detect Illusion is also crap compared to the Clerical Invisibility Purge. Identify and True Sight are the only decent ones. And besides, who wouldn't have either another mage or bard in the party? I think it's pretty easy to say that most people double up on arcane spellcasters.
Now as far as role-playing goes. Yeah then it's whatever. I'm like you, I enjoy role-playing Necromancer. Especially vanilla BG1 Cleric 7/Dual-classed Necromancer 8. Pure sexiness.
That said, Diviner is AWESOME in table-top D&D. Unfortunately Divination is rather poorly implemented into Baldur's Gate. A shame, but not surprising.
I just now saw your reply (I don't always get notifications when I'm quoted for some reason).
How are Oracle and Detect Illusion trash? You can't dispel Mirror Image with Invisibility Purge or Detect Invisibility. If you're up against a mage who's running Mirror Image or other illusion spells, Dispel Magic or Remove Magic might work, depending on your percentage roll, but Oracle will cancel any illusion spell of 5th level or lower--any illusion spell cast in the game--and Detect Illusion cancels the ones that are 3rd level or lower. As for True Sight, it's not going to be available, since it's a 6th level spell, but I agree with you that it's the best one out of all of them since it lasts for an entire turn.
I've seen several posts by people on this forum who list only one mage in their parties. I've played that way before as well. It can be a lot of fun, because you're casting spells in nearly every battle from all the scrolls and wands you pick up throughout the game, as well as the ones your PC has memorized.
Dear gods, Quartz! You're one of those who uses "sexy" in reference to things that have nothing to do with sexual allure. I had thought higher of you. :P (I know several people who do it as well, and I always give them a hard time about it). If it doesn't "turn you on," then it's not sexy! (Unless there's something about Cleric-->Necromancer dual-classing that "does it" for you.) [/overanalysis]
I've never in my playthroughs of the baldurs gate series used oracle or detect illusion, and has never suffered from it. When faced with mirror image, I usually just beat them down with magic missile, instead of reserving a higher spell slot for a detect spell. As a Conjurer, the only spell I really missed was identify, for other uses I had my cleric. As long as you have another caster in your group, and not necessarily an arcane one, I recommend Conjurer.
Remember the random Bandit/Slaver encounters in BG2 while your party travels in between Athkatla districts?
After the second or third time you're "waylaid," the enemy party's mage always drops three scrolls: Monster Summoning II, Minor Spell Deflection, and Oracle. The only reason I tried out Oracle was because the scrolls started adding up quickly and I was curious as to how useful it was. I found it was much like an instantaneous True Sight--very handy in the fight with the Mae'Var guild and the Bodhi quest to clear out the Shadow Thief compound (since every thief seems to have invisibility potions).
Hahaha...whatever floats your boat. Don't hate the player/playette; hate the game.
conjurer, cleric/illusionist, or sorcerer. these rock. however, if you want another mage next to Edwin... I personally like transmuters, though only in BG1. they don't lose anything important, at least compared to any other specialization, only situational spells.
Illusionist sounds good because his starting INT. What school can't he learn, again?
necromancy, which puts them into an uncomfortable position - horror is a really nice spell, just fear 'em and whack 'em. it's not that horrible (you have web and glitterdust at the same level), but I really like horror... though still way better then losing enchantment spells, like invokers.
The only problem with losing a school with a specialist mage is not having another mage to cover that school.If you have two mages with different specializations it's a non-issue for the most part.
The only problem with losing a school with a specialist mage is not having another mage to cover that school.If you have two mages with different specializations it's a non-issue for the most part.
not necessarily... it's true for defensive spells and buffs, but, for example enchanters lose evocation spells - and even though your other mages can cast 'em, the power of double (or triple) fireballs is a VERY handy thing for spreading your enemies as a fine red paste throughout the battlefield.
There are other things to cast. I'd have to double check the schools involved, but I'm sure the enchanter could throw something out to help even if it isn't another fireball. Can enchanters cast Skull Trap? That's really good and surpasses Fireball at some point. I'd think it'd be Necromancy.
The wild mage is the most powerful single class mage-type period. Even the sorcerer doesn't compete. On the other hand though, they're also very dangerous to play..so I can see why people would be leary of them. However, they're also one of the most enjoyable to play once you've demolished the game in it's entirety as every run becomes something new, even if you follow the same path every time, as there's also a chance for the unexpected to happen.
Also...status effects are king in Baldur's Gate 1. Direct damage is crap due to low max levels, and pretty much every enemies in the game except a handful of bosses, will fall to Sleep (might as well call it a death spell). And Blind is brutal on things sleep won't effect...ogres, strong melee fighters, mages (archers tend to die too fast for it to be genuinely useful on them, but can be useful in...a certain fight). Slow is just brutal period (-4 save penalty which means it almost never fails even on stupidly high level enemies). Web as well (-2 penalty, stops all actions), since most BG1 parties tend to be ranged heavy till 5+. Dispel is also pretty important as stripping defenses can make some otherwise brutal fights a breeze.
There's plenty of wands of fire available for all your mook killing needs, if ya know where to look (and can get them MUCH sooner then a mage could fireball anyway), and they're just as powerful as your fireballs would be.
5th level spells are few and far between (and sorcerers can't hit level 10 under the cap, so they'll never have any) and you won't get them for mages till extremely late anyway.
The invoker sucks...just saying...they lose TWO schools (conjuration and enchantment, and yes the game says they only lose enchantment but they do in fact lose both) which makes them right out the worst class in the game (those two schools are actually the strongest in BG1). And gain no benefit for it. Their spells are just as strong as any other specialist that can cast invocation spells would be.
There's only 3 truly useful necromancy spells in the Baldur's Gate series, Skull trap (doesn't cap at level 10 like fireball and deals magic damage instead of fire, but slightly shorter throwing range, but doesn't explode until enemies come near..so it's basically a delayed blast fireball 4 spell levels sooner), Animate Dead (caster level 15+ gives a hard hitting, nigh impervious to magic skeleton warrior, dies pretty easy to hard hitting melee though), and Horrid wilting (Basically a party friendly skull trap that hits a massive area for even more damage).
So...in BG1...you really lose nothing for going Illusionist and even in BG2...you still don't lose much as cleric are better for casting animate dead (they level A LOT faster then mages and get it as a 3rd level spell rather then 5th), and horrid wilting tends to just be overkill for a given situation anyway by the time you could cast it. Yes horror is nice, but sleep is better (sleep has a save penalty, but only works on enemies up to a certain level (which includes just about every enemy in BG1 except bosses, or anything bigger then an ogre), while horror is just a save vs). And given how ranged heavy BG1 is, web is just superior, especially if you give your strongest melee the Spider's Bane or the free action ring.
Wild mages are interesting in that they can try to use a level one spell slot like a "Wild Card" to cast any spell they know. Even if they can't cast that spell level yet. So a Wild Mage could try to cast her 5th level spells before hitting the requisite level.
A lot of people over look the fact that said "wild card" spell ignores the 1 spell per round limit. While it's not nearly as abusable as it is in BG2 with Amulet of power and Robe of Vecna, it's still quite potent if you're dealing with very low cast time spells. And while the effects tend to be completely random at such low levels, the result is ALWAYS interesting....
I still want to go through the tetrology as a Diviner, but I don't have the patience to play low-level arcane caster (and don't care enough to install a "dual into kit" or "multiclass with kits" mod)
Comments
How are Oracle and Detect Illusion trash? You can't dispel Mirror Image with Invisibility Purge or Detect Invisibility. If you're up against a mage who's running Mirror Image or other illusion spells, Dispel Magic or Remove Magic might work, depending on your percentage roll, but Oracle will cancel any illusion spell of 5th level or lower--any illusion spell cast in the game--and Detect Illusion cancels the ones that are 3rd level or lower. As for True Sight, it's not going to be available, since it's a 6th level spell, but I agree with you that it's the best one out of all of them since it lasts for an entire turn.
I've seen several posts by people on this forum who list only one mage in their parties. I've played that way before as well. It can be a lot of fun, because you're casting spells in nearly every battle from all the scrolls and wands you pick up throughout the game, as well as the ones your PC has memorized.
Dear gods, Quartz! You're one of those who uses "sexy" in reference to things that have nothing to do with sexual allure. I had thought higher of you. :P (I know several people who do it as well, and I always give them a hard time about it). If it doesn't "turn you on," then it's not sexy! (Unless there's something about Cleric-->Necromancer dual-classing that "does it" for you.) [/overanalysis]
As long as you have another caster in your group, and not necessarily an arcane one, I recommend Conjurer.
Huh, interesting I did not know that about Oracle. I'll be sure to use it some time then.
Yeah, I'd say it's best to have two arcane casters, even if the other is a Bard.
That said, yes. I have gotten off to Cleric->Necromancer dual-class many, many times.
Okay not really. Yes I am one of those tools who uses 'sexy' to describe things I like. Hater.
Remember the random Bandit/Slaver encounters in BG2 while your party travels in between Athkatla districts?
Hahaha...whatever floats your boat. Don't hate the player/playette; hate the game.
What school can't he learn, again?
also, the best way to get stabbed by your DM. repeatedly. with great fury.
Also...status effects are king in Baldur's Gate 1. Direct damage is crap due to low max levels, and pretty much every enemies in the game except a handful of bosses, will fall to Sleep (might as well call it a death spell). And Blind is brutal on things sleep won't effect...ogres, strong melee fighters, mages (archers tend to die too fast for it to be genuinely useful on them, but can be useful in...a certain fight). Slow is just brutal period (-4 save penalty which means it almost never fails even on stupidly high level enemies). Web as well (-2 penalty, stops all actions), since most BG1 parties tend to be ranged heavy till 5+. Dispel is also pretty important as stripping defenses can make some otherwise brutal fights a breeze.
There's plenty of wands of fire available for all your mook killing needs, if ya know where to look (and can get them MUCH sooner then a mage could fireball anyway), and they're just as powerful as your fireballs would be.
5th level spells are few and far between (and sorcerers can't hit level 10 under the cap, so they'll never have any) and you won't get them for mages till extremely late anyway.
The invoker sucks...just saying...they lose TWO schools (conjuration and enchantment, and yes the game says they only lose enchantment but they do in fact lose both) which makes them right out the worst class in the game (those two schools are actually the strongest in BG1). And gain no benefit for it. Their spells are just as strong as any other specialist that can cast invocation spells would be.
There's only 3 truly useful necromancy spells in the Baldur's Gate series, Skull trap (doesn't cap at level 10 like fireball and deals magic damage instead of fire, but slightly shorter throwing range, but doesn't explode until enemies come near..so it's basically a delayed blast fireball 4 spell levels sooner), Animate Dead (caster level 15+ gives a hard hitting, nigh impervious to magic skeleton warrior, dies pretty easy to hard hitting melee though), and Horrid wilting (Basically a party friendly skull trap that hits a massive area for even more damage).
So...in BG1...you really lose nothing for going Illusionist and even in BG2...you still don't lose much as cleric are better for casting animate dead (they level A LOT faster then mages and get it as a 3rd level spell rather then 5th), and horrid wilting tends to just be overkill for a given situation anyway by the time you could cast it. Yes horror is nice, but sleep is better (sleep has a save penalty, but only works on enemies up to a certain level (which includes just about every enemy in BG1 except bosses, or anything bigger then an ogre), while horror is just a save vs). And given how ranged heavy BG1 is, web is just superior, especially if you give your strongest melee the Spider's Bane or the free action ring.