Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details. Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition Official Soundtrack is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

(Spoilers) Best Part of Siege of Dragonspear?

What was the best part of Siege of Dragonspear for you?
The Worst?
The Most Difficult?

Any character, confrontation or moment is up for grabs, but please don't get political or insult anyone about their opinions.

Only two things truly dissapointed me:
1. I felt that the amount of returning NPCs should have been higher
2. The ending was anticlimactic

I found the Dwarven Dig Site to be the most entertaining and difficult challenge for me, although I never tried my hand at the Dragon. I can only imagine the Dragon was harder.

I enjoyed the Temple of Bhaal as well as the unexpected encounters with Basilisks and Displacer Beasts.

The overall variety in monsters as well as the IWD-Esque feel made it feel different enough to be fun but not so different that it was no longer a Baldur's Gate game.

I had a lot of fun playing, although so far I have only played all the way through once (Soon to be twice, my Gnome Beserker is in Chapter 5)
JuliusBorisovThacoBelltypo_tilly
«1

Comments

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    edited June 16
    What was the best part of Siege of Dragonspear for you?

    The fact that it exists. The fact that there now is a transition between BG1 and BG2 at all.
    The highlight is the appearance of the Hooded Figure and Boareskyr Bridge, where the old and the upcoming story connect. (It was done in a limited way before by BGT and Drizzt Saga - the hooded man is directly out of that mod.) The events around Sarevok have exposed the protagonist as both hero and bhaalspawn. This is crucial for the events until ToB. The main plot is as good as any other adventure to flesh this out. The importance of SoD in the flow of the trilogy becomes even more apparent when you play a continuous session via the EET.

    The Worst?

    The tutorial like introduction (until you leave BG). People who play SoD are mostly there because they know the game. Not that the part should be skipped but it should be free play like the rest of the game. There is too much of *let-us-take-you-by -the-hand-and-show-you-our-new-game.*

    The Most Difficult?

    As a veteran player of the old game including nearly every mod ever made there is little that is in this category. Maybe the lich in the dwarven quest, but just by reading the books/scrolls you find you get enough hints how to deal with him. The right timing and splitting your party and he's done. In my very first playthrough of SoD I kept my whole party alive throughout. This is not to say that it's too easy. I find the level of difficulty adequate.

    Others

    I have no problem with not every old NPC being available, but again this is playing style, I rotate party members and are always interested in something new. Safana got more attention in SoD than she ever received in BG1 from me. I took the new ones as well on some playthroughs but cannot even remember their names except for Corwin. They are unnecessary, but again, they don't hurt, nobody pushes you to take them.
    It's the first time I encountered a Cyric/Bhaal temple in the game (except for the Sandrah mod) and a bit more contents of how those two gods throw their shadow over the whole trilogy.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 887
    @PaulaMigrate
    Oh no I wasn't implying that every NPC should be available, just a few more.

    Xzar and Montaron would be good examples. Tiax would've been great (with possible forehshadowing of his eventual demise in Spellhold). Also Xan would be hillarious

    If more of these NPCs had just made cameos (like Coran and Garrick did in BG2) it would have made my day.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633

    @PaulaMigrate
    Oh no I wasn't implying that every NPC should be available, just a few more.

    Xzar and Montaron would be good examples. Tiax would've been great (with possible forehshadowing of his eventual demise in Spellhold). Also Xan would be hillarious

    If more of these NPCs had just made cameos (like Coran and Garrick did in BG2) it would have made my day.

    Since everybody would request their favorites to be there, in the end you have all of them again.
    Look at it from the story point of view. More or less your party disbanded after you finished those last Sarevok followers at SoD start. Everybody went their way and soon is engaged in the own story. For some of them it leads into Amn sooner or later, for some it lead to death or to somewhere out of your view. Some stay around and get involved in the crusade events.
    I find it quite a good approach to give those who are there a convincing reason to re-appear. As such, Jaheira, Khalid and Neera are far more convincing than someone who is just standing around in camp *Hey here I am again, I had nothing better to do, shall we travel together again?*. Again, this is probably just me, I always disliked the ToB spirit who could summon all your old companions as well.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    @DJ_Sweatz_2013 The amount of original NPCs that came back was based on how many of the voice actors Beamdog could contact and get on the project. Jaheira is the only exception because of her canoness.
    semiticgod
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    ThacoBell said:

    @DJ_Sweatz_2013 The amount of original NPCs that came back was based on how many of the voice actors Beamdog could contact and get on the project. Jaheira is the only exception because of her canoness.

    Interesting.

    Still, I feel it's also more natural this way (because of what I said in my previous post) Just finding everybody again with a more or less plausible story would feel forced.
    I also like the EET idea of continuity in which NPCs appear as they were left (stats, levels etc) and those who died earlier do not appear.

    This is just one example of SoD's dilemma, you can never make everybody happy and satisfy their expectations. I have to admit that my advantage with SoD was that I expected nothing, was curious of what it may be and thus was pretty open for about everything. The whole advertisement hype campaign left me unimpressed, I played it first as part of the EET. Overall it is a valid addition to the game, it's neither the best part of it nor the worse. The main plot and the new NPCs may be...hmm, but there is enough else to make it worth playing. As an EET player I don't call for a *skip SoD* mod, it has its part as chapters 8-12 of the trilogy (see http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27913#entry242897).
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 409
    Best part is assault on castle imo. To have 100+ creatures on screen fighting it out is fantastic, even more so since I had zero lag even on a 6-year old laptop with intel graphics.
    Worst part is assault on crusader camp, since the game flips out of zoom, which I hate beyond belief.
    Hardest part - maybe that shadow aspect. But I didn't even see him first time I played. I managed to no-reload SoD on 2nd attempt, 1st was thwarted by dragon.
    And I really want a Xan-SoD component. XanBG2 is my fav NPC, and playing the whole EET with him would be great. Where's Olga? :)
    I'd also prefer Tiax than Glint.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,149
    The Best.

    Meeting Viconia and Edwin again.

    The fight in the goblin(?) ruins where the dragon turns up and attacks you ( in the underground river bit) That was a fun fight, party split up and having to do quite a few things at once.

    Killing Corwin in the sewers.

    The Worst.

    The writing.
    The story.
    Did I mention the writing?
    The hooded man.
    The whole of the end from the the assault on the castle onwards.

    Most difficult
    The end fight.
    Made moreso by not caring by then and simply wanting it over.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    edited June 16
    Aasim said:


    And I really want a Xan-SoD component. XanBG2 is my fav NPC, and playing the whole EET with him would be great.

    Baldur's Gate is doomed, everyone trying to fight the crusade is doomed, Xan facing Bhaal's face on the bridge, Xan in Cyric's temple of doom - and finally entering the portal to complete hopelessness. He deserves to see all this. I want to hold his hand and assure him that we get out alive, I have no idea how but we always do, somehow.
    ThacoBellGrond0Mantis37
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 409


    Baldur's Gate is doomed, everyone trying to fight the crusade is doomed, Xan facing Bhaal's face on the bridge, Xan in Cyric's temple of doom - and finally entering the portal to complete hopelessness. He deserves to see all this. I want to hold his hand and assure him that we get out alive, I have no idea how but we always do, somehow.

    :)
    Sounds about right...
    ZaramMaldovar
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 193
    Anyone stayed to fight through the whole Hephernan scene? That was easily the most difficult part. Tougher than the final battle I think. Mages and guards keep spawning until this elite group appears. They all have unique names and such, like Four Winds. Now THAT was a fun fight. Probably the best and hardest part all at the same time.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,679
    yeah i did that. not very hard, just have to pull back to a room in the back and then come back when they're all crowded up, packing some AoE
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    edited June 16
    bob_veng said:

    yeah i did that. not very hard, just have to pull back to a room in the back and then come back when they're all crowded up, packing some AoE

    For a moment I thought I had found some alternate or secret backdoor to the final battle. It was a surprise but since I just send one party member ahead to spy, the rest was still in the back and we were not surrounded or such, they had to come for us and we could use all our spells and fighting power mercilessly. Those elites had little chance to come out of the door of their quarter.
    My fighter/cleric who was ahead in the altar room finished those in there quickly and then summoned all sorts to attack/distract them from this side as well.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    The hardest - final battle. Needlessly hard, I would say.
    The worst - Corwin, hooded man, and how writing goes down the hill since negotations with Cealar.
    The best - dungeons.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    Artona said:


    The worst - how writing goes down the hill since negotations with Cealar.

    I am not sure what exactly you mean here, but the one thing I found after that negotiation was that it became clear there was no *peaceful* path with her. Even when I already suspected Hephernan to be a traitor (I found and read all the scout notes and scrolls and such) I could do nothing.
    It reminded me or original ToB where you could not persuade the good bhaalspawn to side with you (before Ascension and Wheels mod).
    In both cases you had no choice but follow the author's path. In ToB modders took over, maybe in SoD as well?

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    But there is no explanation why we can't reason with Cealar. ToB at least has Prophecy stuff - it's cheap, but it works.
    SoD doesn't offer even that.

    Also, this is just one thing - I mean in general, especially with Big B as main villain.
    Vbibbi
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    Artona said:

    But there is no explanation why we can't reason with Cealar. ToB at least has Prophecy stuff - it's cheap, but it works.
    SoD doesn't offer even that.

    Also, this is just one thing - I mean in general, especially with Big B as main villain.

    For a moment in the Cealar negotiation it gives the impression that the own alliance leaders were the hinderance, maybe in mistrust of a bhaalspawn or two.

    And yes, they could have chosen just any random name for the beast except that one.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    For a moment in the Cealar negotiation it gives the impression that the own alliance leaders were the hinderance, maybe in mistrust of a bhaalspawn or two.


    My main problem is that there is no force to stop CHARNAME from allying with Cealar - except from Plot Device. And we see that Plot Device in it's ugly entirety. What exactly was Marshall going to do if Bhaalspawn said that Cealar argument's are convincing? Send that stupid uber-mage after them? Game provides no answer, and to make it worse, it teases player with promise of agency on their part.
    Meanwhile, ToB handles things better: Balthazar offers some explanation why he thinks alliance is impossible.

    And yes, they could have chosen just any random name for the beast except that one.


    The name is not the problem. The fact that Cealar is reduced to sidekick, and turns out to be the main protagonist of the story at the same time is a problem.
    Vbibbi
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    Artona said:

    For a moment in the Cealar negotiation it gives the impression that the own alliance leaders were the hinderance, maybe in mistrust of a bhaalspawn or two.


    My main problem is that there is no force to stop CHARNAME from allying with Cealar - except from Plot Device. And we see that Plot Device in it's ugly entirety. What exactly was Marshall going to do if Bhaalspawn said that Cealar argument's are convincing? Send that stupid uber-mage after them? Game provides no answer, and to make it worse, it teases player with promise of agency on their part.
    Meanwhile, ToB handles things better: Balthazar offers some explanation why he thinks alliance is impossible.

    And yes, they could have chosen just any random name for the beast except that one.


    The name is not the problem. The fact that Cealar is reduced to sidekick, and turns out to be the main protagonist of the story at the same time is a problem.
    She is never the protagonist. The writing never even HINTS that she is at all justified. Its very clear that she her pride has lead her down a wrong path.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    edited June 17
    Maybe I have given a wrong impression when I talked about negotiating with Cealar. When the second meeting takes place, it is clear that
    1. Cealar is just a figurehead used by Hephernan, nevertheless the crusaders follow HER and her arguments, even if those in itself are a lie.
    2. Hephernan it a traitor to Cealar, which could be useful, but his agenda is as dangerous as is hers, maybe even more so.
    3. They need the bhaalspwan, respectively the tainted blood for some ritual.
    4. In order to get more insight and to prevent massive bloodshed for both sides in the battle over Dragonspear the logical (heroic) choice would be to agree to her invitation in order to get inside, get close to them. Infiltrate the crusade, play one against the other.

    Of course you will fail, otherwise the great battle would not take place, what a shame to loose all the work gone into it...but it would me more satisfying to at least have the option and some alternative path. Especially since the option is shown and it looks like some response option was just missing. Or the reactions of your own allies should be more drastic - when they hear that you agree to go with Cealar, they take you for a traitor and arrest you and so on. But like I said earlier, the main plot isn't the highlight of SoD anyway.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    She is never the protagonist. The writing never even HINTS that she is at all justified. Its very clear that she her pride has lead her down a wrong path.


    Protagonist as a main character of the story, not the good guy.

    it would me more satisfying to at least have the option and some alternative path. Especially since the option is shown and it looks like some response option was just missing. Or the reactions of your own allies should be more drastic - when they hear that you agree to go with Cealar, they take you for a traitor and arrest you and so on.


    That's exactly what bothers me. Sure, going with Cealar isn't the brightest of ideas, but game the hints that choice, and it should handle the possibility of player to take it. And I get the feeling that originally it was a plan, but devs run out of time/money to implement this.
    Even old and crude Baldur's Gate 1 offered you possibility to fight Warden in Candlekeep. It was poorly handled, but still there. SoD shouldn't have to resort to such primitive storytelling instruments (because Marshall basically forbidding CHARNAME to join Calear, despite having no authority, is pretty bad).


  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    Artona said:

    She is never the protagonist. The writing never even HINTS that she is at all justified. Its very clear that she her pride has lead her down a wrong path.


    Protagonist as a main character of the story, not the good guy.

    it would me more satisfying to at least have the option and some alternative path. Especially since the option is shown and it looks like some response option was just missing. Or the reactions of your own allies should be more drastic - when they hear that you agree to go with Cealar, they take you for a traitor and arrest you and so on.


    That's exactly what bothers me. Sure, going with Cealar isn't the brightest of ideas, but game the hints that choice, and it should handle the possibility of player to take it. And I get the feeling that originally it was a plan, but devs run out of time/money to implement this.
    Even old and crude Baldur's Gate 1 offered you possibility to fight Warden in Candlekeep. It was poorly handled, but still there. SoD shouldn't have to resort to such primitive storytelling instruments (because Marshall basically forbidding CHARNAME to join Calear, despite having no authority, is pretty bad).


    Well its a "no" either way. Charname is still fully the protagonist in every sense of the word. Caelar exists as a foil to charname. Just as Sarevok is the evil foil to a good charname, Caelar is the "good" foil to an "evil" one. Think about it, she also has divine blood, but hers is divine rather than infernal. She also belongs to an incredibly respected Paladin family. Where you have to work tooth and nail for everything, she had everything handed to her. SoD has a theme of blood/nature vs. action/intent. She was descended from what many would consider unambiguously good while you from evil. She is made a villain because of her arrogance that everything she does must be right because of her heritage, and as a result causes suffering on a scale arguably larger than Sarevok. Where a good charname or even evil charname inevitably end up making the sword coast safer (despite their heritage) through their actions in the story. Caelar is no more a protaganist in SoD than Sarevok is in BG. Even her (accidental) ties to Mr.B mirror the inner struggle of charname against Bhaal's essence that would control them.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    edited June 17
    Artona said:

    She is never the protagonist. The writing never even HINTS that she is at all justified. Its very clear that she her pride has lead her down a wrong path.


    Protagonist as a main character of the story, not the good guy.

    it would me more satisfying to at least have the option and some alternative path. Especially since the option is shown and it looks like some response option was just missing. Or the reactions of your own allies should be more drastic - when they hear that you agree to go with Cealar, they take you for a traitor and arrest you and so on.


    That's exactly what bothers me. Sure, going with Cealar isn't the brightest of ideas, but game the hints that choice, and it should handle the possibility of player to take it. And I get the feeling that originally it was a plan, but devs run out of time/money to implement this.
    Even old and crude Baldur's Gate 1 offered you possibility to fight Warden in Candlekeep. It was poorly handled, but still there. SoD shouldn't have to resort to such primitive storytelling instruments (because Marshall basically forbidding CHARNAME to join Calear, despite having no authority, is pretty bad).


    This is how the conversation goes when you have the Sandrah mod installed and she is with your party at this point (and this sounds pretty much like something was planned here but not implemented later). Background - Sandrah hails from Waterdeep just like de Lancie and they both hate each other deeply - Sandrah often tries to manipulate the player with her counselling advice. Her mod often picks up loose ends from the story.

    Caelar ~ Listen to me, CHARNAME. The lost souls of the Dragonspear dead need a hero. That hero is you. Join me, and together we shall liberate the souls trapped in the Nine Hells.~
    Sandrah ~ (She speaks loud enough for your allies to hear but not as loud as for the enemies to catch her words.)~
    = ~CHARNAME, I propose to agree to go with her...~
    de Lancie ~I'm glad we are in agreement, Lady Sandrah, your father would be proud of you.~
    Sandrah~Shut up, de Lancie! We are not in agreement and my father would not even care to notice one like you.~
    =~CHARNAME, this whole action of the Crusade, of Caelar, had but one goal - to have you, respectively your blood, here today. We now have the chance to find out why and we have the chance to infiltrate the enemy right from the inside. Grab this chance, rely on our forces, you and your comrads - we need no army to win.~
    de Lancie~Your arrogance shall be your downfall but my men and me will stay alive.~
    Reply options:
    1) You make a strong case for aiding you. I admit I'm tempted.
    2) You're up to something, Caelar. If it were that simple you would have just asked for my help instead of drumming up an army and sending assassins after me.

    And then the Marshall steps in and hijacks the dialogue and closes the half open door.

    Caelar~Time is now our enemy. If someone else seeks the Bhaalspawn... I cannot wait any longer for you to see the light. What will not be given freely must be taken.~
    ~When next you see my banner, it will be at the head of the army that marches on you. For righteousness. For justice.~


    That's it for the alternative.

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    I am aware of history of Caelar. There is no need to explain it, thank you.
    What you said does not undermine my point, though. Mastermind behind crusade and all of misery and pain it brings is Mister Wanna-Be-Diablo. For Cealar he is arch-enemy, they have deeply personal link, that goes way back. Like certain Bhaalspawn and Sarevok.
    For Charname, Mister Woland-Laughs-At-Me is... some guy. Quite literary. Like I have zero reasons to care about him. So in final confrontaiton Cealar meets her Nemesis, we witness her final falldown, like Macbeth, or rejecting Big B, eventually doing The Right Thing.
    Meanwhile, Charname stands there, and awkwardness ensues.
    So we end up as Fortinbras of that particular story. Not a position I want to be as main character of a game.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    You misunderstand the story so I figured explanation was necessary.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    @ThacoBell - you are aware that unless you back that with something, your claim that I misunderstand the story means nothing to me, right? Just checking.

    @PaulaMigrate - it seems it makes things little better. However, I'd rather have possibility to skip entire big battle, because finale with Hephernaan's betrayal and all does not have to be changed much.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    Artona said:

    @ThacoBell - you are aware that unless you back that with something, your claim that I misunderstand the story means nothing to me, right? Just checking.

    @PaulaMigrate - it seems it makes things little better. However, I'd rather have possibility to skip entire big battle, because finale with Hephernaan's betrayal and all does not have to be changed much.

    I mean, if nothing anyone says has any meaning for you, why bother posting in a discussion? Or do you dismiss other people's arguments because it makes you feel superior?
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 633
    Artona said:

    @ThacoBell - you are aware that unless you back that with something, your claim that I misunderstand the story means nothing to me, right? Just checking.

    @PaulaMigrate - it seems it makes things little better. However, I'd rather have possibility to skip entire big battle, because finale with Hephernaan's betrayal and all does not have to be changed much.

    Going with Caelar would mean that after this and that and confronting the traitor etc. your party ends up at the seal. From that point on the stories are the same again. H. plays out his plot, you all follow through the seal. When you return, the allies have meanwhile entered the Castle and the remaining plot unfolds.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    @ThacoBell - if you are not going to say something ad rem, then it would be nice if you, at least, would refrain from ad personams. Okay?
    I wrote a post why I think Cealar's position renders Charname's role pointless. If you are going to argue that, please do so, but don't waste anyone time's with petty insults.

    Ad rem:
    I'd like to add some other thing to "the best part": Baldur's Gate. I mean, the city. In original game city is, well, pretty static and does not feel alive, not really. In SoD we only see glimpse, but thpse areas we can visit are gorgeous, and make me wish Beamdog could remake entire first game. Animals, crowds, animations, Flaming Fist mercenaries, sounds - it's all perfect.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,830
    I DID post why Caelar's position does not render Charname's role pointless. Maybe it would help to actually engage with someone's post rather than disregard it out of and eh? I won't waste my time responding to you again, it's very clear that you have no concern for argument but your own.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 557
    edited June 17
    So you will finally stop bothering me? Thank God.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.