@Lemernis Haha if he were in a party in a playthrough right now I probably wouldn't be having so much trouble. But I've kind of given up playing computer games until the end of the semester so I can focus on my studies. As soon as winter break comes, I'll be playing again, but I actually haven't played any games for the past three months. So maybe it's like some sort of...Baldur's Gate withdrawal, and it's taken the form of thinking about Xan maybe because he's my favorite character?
@Permidion_Stark Haha, you're right about that one. I should totally count my blessings that it's not Korgan.
@RomulanPaladin Here. This should be your plan 1. Find group of people who have never played BG. 2. Play D&D. 3. Be pessimistic doomed individual. 4. ??? 5. Profit!
...Also, I love all you guys, you guys are the greatest.
I'm sorry, I feel kind of guilty about it now, I didn't realise there was so much love for Xan, but at the time I was fnding him de-motivating and depressing (no, really?) and CHARNAME *was* evil...
I'm sorry, I feel kind of guilty about it now, I didn't realise there was so much love for Xan, but at the time I was fnding him de-motivating and depressing (no, really?) and CHARNAME *was* evil...I gotta say, it's fun to play Baldur's Gate as either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil, because then you can justify every ridiculous stupid thing you do.
Well, actually, CHARNAME is whomever we want him to be. The PC has the power to overcome the Bhaal's essence. And at the end of TOB he or she has a choice to become an entirely new god.
@Oxford_Guy Well it makes your clarification kind of irrelevant. It makes the exchange feel kind of like this. "I was playing an evil-aligned CHARNAME that time." "Well, actually, CHARNAME is whomever we want him to be." "Wait, what?"
@Oxford_Guy Well it makes your clarification kind of irrelevant. It makes the exchange feel kind of like this. "I was playing an evil-aligned CHARNAME that time." "Well, actually, CHARNAME is whomever we want him to be." "Wait, what?"
But if CHARNAME's alignment is evil, I RP him/her as evil, though of course there' s many shades of grey with that...
I've been hesitating whether I should or shouldn't post it. On one hand, it's perfectly on topic, on the other it looks like a shameless self-plug, AND it will just keep Xan stuck in your head even longer... but I can't resist. ...yeah, Xan after a facelift. It was inevitable.
@Syntia13, I love the look on his face, as he is in mid-spellcast. The slightly raised eyebrow and the ever-so-slight sneering of his mouth are perfect. I can just hear him saying, "Sigh, I'll cast this spell, but it won't do any good. This is useless."
I just don't get why people like Xan so much. I'd bombard his depressed face in with magic missiles to end his pitiful drama, while mocking his inability of being able to cast magic missiles himself.
I doubt it. Severe depression is an extremely rare side effect and if it affects an individual in such a way they're supposed to discontinue use immediately. I've known people who take it regularly, and if anything, they act more grumpy, irritable, pessimistic, and all-around 'down' once it starts wearing off.
@Mungri, he's a form of comedy relief. He's like Threepio in the Star Wars films.
Also, his unrelenting pessimism is a defense. A lot of people see appealing layers of loyalty and patriotism underneath all the complaining, as well as a sensitive soul. He brings out a desire to get him to come out of his shell, and to see that the world isn't really all that bad, after all. And I can just imagine the scathing remarks he would make to me if I said that to him. Another part of his appeal is the challenge of getting through to him.
@Zafiro: I agree with your statement about wise and intelligent men, the more you get to know, the more you suffer. Now I might be more intelligent than wise (like Xan) and indeed my depression stems from knowing too much that's wrong with the world. Like with every package of food I buy seeing the bigger picture of greenhouse gasses, arable land depletetion, the bad dealings of a company like Monsanto, while for other people it's just a pack of cookies or a bag of fries. I disagree though, evil lies only in opinions. Some things are really more hurtful to people and to the environment than others.
What we can change though, is the way we think about things. For me a way of dealing with depression, is seeing the inevitability of things: we were not created as beings with a free will by some divine entity, we are animals that are a product of evolution, that are the descendents of animals that took care of their own and their offsprings' survival foremost, else we wouldn't be here. So there's an evolutionary limit to altruism. Too altruistic and you end up, for example, like me, not wanting to overpopulate the world further, so you don't procreate and - bang - evolutionary dead-end. Seeing the inevitablity of evil and suffering is my own filling in of rational emotive therapy (RET).
Xan has his own way of dealing with things. Like already said, don't expect too much and you won't be dissapointed. One of the most endearing sayings of Xan is 'around you I almost feel we have a chance'. Though I think you need to install the 'neutral characters make happy comments at mid-range reputation' component of BG2-Tweaks to hear it?
I'm sorry, I feel kind of guilty about it now, I didn't realise there was so much love for Xan, but at the time I was fnding him de-motivating and depressing (no, really?) and CHARNAME *was* evil...
I gotta say, it's fun to play Baldur's Gate as either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil, because then you can justify every ridiculous stupid thing you do.
@Quartz Totally! Some days I just feel like bashing Xan's face in, other days I want him around because I pity him, and some days I find his blabbering humorous and a welcoming boost to the groups morale.
I almost always pick CN, since it is the least limiting alignment and what I identify myself most with. It could also be related that I find alignments a bit silly to begin with, but I'm a huge fan of AD&D 2nd edition with all it's charming flaws and silly limitations, so of course I endorse alignments as well.
@Son_of_Imoen, I see like 3 points you've made I strongly agree with.
Leading off with the things in our food. I know enough to make me sick. That's why I don't eat anything from packages; that includes sweets as well. I'm trying to have an epicurean way of life, where most things are not necessary. Surely, I don't believe all of the vegetables and fruits are actually clean, still better than chocolate and those chemicals they call today "coffee". And here I have to once again say evil lies only in opinions. Our desires are the same as ever, only the means and tools have changed.
I also agree we do not have free will; for we are immanent beings in the universe, and not transitive. Altruism sounds not only messianic but cockish. One may even dare say we can never act altruistic. I try to be a rationalist; and this turns into Egoism(not to be confused with egotism). I strongly disapprove utilitarianism; It's all about holding my moral law and not lie for any promise of helping any number of people; why risk the only asset one can keep.
Now, for the last bit, theres something really grand you've said, something that many great people have said in the past, and probably will be said many times in the future. I'll start with the 6th century; Boethius writes:
- "Fear naught, and hope naught: thus shall you have a weak man's rage disarmed."
The original latin verse is: - Nec speres aliquid nec extimescas; I have found the exact same verse at Mihai Eminescu(feel free to google him:P). I'll show you the english translation that reads:
Have no hope and have no fear, Waves that rise can never hold; If they urge or if they cheer, You remain aloof and cold.
Or another translation:
Don't be Hope's or Terror's thrall; Wave-like things like waves shall pass; Should they urge or should they call, Keep as cool as ice or glass.
Between the 6th century and the 19th, I have found Spinoza:
PROP. XLVII. Emotions of hope and fear cannot be in, themselves good.
Proof.--Emotions of hope and fear cannot exist without pain. For fear is pain, and hope cannot exist without fear; therefore these emotions cannot be good in themselves, but only in so far as they can restrain excessive pleasure.Q.E.D.
If men had not this hope and this fear, but believed that the mind perishes with the body, and that no hope of prolonged life remains for the wretches who are broken down with the burden of piety, they would return to their own inclinations, controlling everything in accordance with their lusts, and desiring to obey fortune rather than themselves. Such a course appears to me not less absurd than if a man, because he does not believe that he can by wholesome food sustain his body for ever, should wish to cram himself with poisons and deadly fare; or if, because he sees that the mind is not eternal or immortal, he should prefer to be out of his mind altogether, and to live without the use of reason; these ideas are so absurd as to be scarcely worth refuting.
This could also be seen as a direct attack at Nihilism, but there was no talk about nihilism at that time, such a thing is to absurd to a rationalist. Yes, I've done it again! Don't take me too seriously. I just feel like playing Tetris with this things..
@RomulanPaladin Here. This should be your plan 1. Find group of people who have never played BG. 2. Play D&D. 3. Be pessimistic doomed individual. 4. ??? 5. Profit!
Hrmmph. An appreciated though worthless sentiment. The presence of the BG series in D&D groups is monolithic and the chances of cobbling together any group unaware of it is suitably pitiful. I suppose I could try to create a complex character, instead, as a transparently vain attempt to add some depth to the group, though, after all these years, I hardly know why I try.
Regardless, I do thank you for trying to provide hope to this thread, even though, as I'm sure is obvious, hope is just a word for the murder of a man's peace of mind.
Cant be worse than accepting him into my party, and marching him off alone against a basillisk, and yay! Leaving him as a statue for the rest of his existence, to which I might later return to to cast stone to flesh on, and he will see me and ask ...
'What, you? The last I remember it was you who sent me off to fight a basilisk, only to have me turned into ...'
@Son_of_Imoen and @Zafiro - Goodness! I see I have some fellow students of philosophy here. I haven't studied it seriously since my college days, and I've forgotten a lot of knowledge and details about the history of thought that I used to know, but, I must say, it's refreshing to read some intellectually challenging text again.
See, that's another of Xan's charms. He gets you to think philosophically.
@belgarathmth and @Zafiro: Zafiro's text is interesting indeed. It's sad for me to notice, by reading it, my mind can't deal very well with difficult text due to concentration problems from my mental illness. Not like I was able to when I studied, just before my mental breakdown (actually, too much philosophical doubt added to the breakdown, mixed in with too little daylight and too much marihuana and alcohol - but that's all past now). It's times like these I regret having such a handicap. I'm feeling proud though on being one of the lecturers on a day for cliënts, policymakers and people from the mental health services that I helped organise, so my life is not wholly down. But I couldn't get my mind clear on Zafiro's text straight away. Hope I'll manage a reply later this week, but right now my head is full of anticipation for the 'Day of Quality' that lies ahead next week.
Comments
Haha if he were in a party in a playthrough right now I probably wouldn't be having so much trouble. But I've kind of given up playing computer games until the end of the semester so I can focus on my studies. As soon as winter break comes, I'll be playing again, but I actually haven't played any games for the past three months. So maybe it's like some sort of...Baldur's Gate withdrawal, and it's taken the form of thinking about Xan maybe because he's my favorite character?
@Permidion_Stark
Haha, you're right about that one. I should totally count my blessings that it's not Korgan.
@Oxford_Guy
;_;
Why.
@RomulanPaladin
Here. This should be your plan
1. Find group of people who have never played BG.
2. Play D&D.
3. Be pessimistic doomed individual.
4. ???
5. Profit!
...Also, I love all you guys, you guys are the greatest.
Imoen: Right you are.
Male003: Done ... and ... done.
I think @Oxford_Guy meant that THEIR charname was evil
Well it makes your clarification kind of irrelevant. It makes the exchange feel kind of like this.
"I was playing an evil-aligned CHARNAME that time."
"Well, actually, CHARNAME is whomever we want him to be."
"Wait, what?"
...yeah, Xan after a facelift. It was inevitable.
I wonder if that's what he was named after? Do Xanax addicts develop such personality traits?
I doubt it. Severe depression is an extremely rare side effect and if it affects an individual in such a way they're supposed to discontinue use immediately. I've known people who take it regularly, and if anything, they act more grumpy, irritable, pessimistic, and all-around 'down' once it starts wearing off.
I never played through with Xan, he's on my list. Love the moonblade with the purple robe.
Well now that's just needlessly cruel.
Also, his unrelenting pessimism is a defense. A lot of people see appealing layers of loyalty and patriotism underneath all the complaining, as well as a sensitive soul. He brings out a desire to get him to come out of his shell, and to see that the world isn't really all that bad, after all. And I can just imagine the scathing remarks he would make to me if I said that to him. Another part of his appeal is the challenge of getting through to him.
What we can change though, is the way we think about things. For me a way of dealing with depression, is seeing the inevitability of things: we were not created as beings with a free will by some divine entity, we are animals that are a product of evolution, that are the descendents of animals that took care of their own and their offsprings' survival foremost, else we wouldn't be here. So there's an evolutionary limit to altruism. Too altruistic and you end up, for example, like me, not wanting to overpopulate the world further, so you don't procreate and - bang - evolutionary dead-end. Seeing the inevitablity of evil and suffering is my own filling in of rational emotive therapy (RET).
Xan has his own way of dealing with things. Like already said, don't expect too much and you won't be dissapointed. One of the most endearing sayings of Xan is 'around you I almost feel we have a chance'. Though I think you need to install the 'neutral characters make happy comments at mid-range reputation' component of BG2-Tweaks to hear it?
Shirtless.
Shirtless.
@Quartz Totally! Some days I just feel like bashing Xan's face in, other days I want him around because I pity him, and some days I find his blabbering humorous and a welcoming boost to the groups morale.
I almost always pick CN, since it is the least limiting alignment and what I identify myself most with. It could also be related that I find alignments a bit silly to begin with, but I'm a huge fan of AD&D 2nd edition with all it's charming flaws and silly limitations, so of course I endorse alignments as well.
Leading off with the things in our food. I know enough to make me sick. That's why I don't eat anything from packages; that includes sweets as well. I'm trying to have an epicurean way of life, where most things are not necessary. Surely, I don't believe all of the vegetables and fruits are actually clean, still better than chocolate and those chemicals they call today "coffee". And here I have to once again say evil lies only in opinions. Our desires are the same as ever, only the means and tools have changed.
I also agree we do not have free will; for we are immanent beings in the universe, and not transitive.
Altruism sounds not only messianic but cockish. One may even dare say we can never act altruistic. I try to be a rationalist; and this turns into Egoism(not to be confused with egotism). I strongly disapprove utilitarianism; It's all about holding my moral law and not lie for any promise of helping any number of people; why risk the only asset one can keep.
Now, for the last bit, theres something really grand you've said, something that many great people have said in the past, and probably will be said many times in the future.
I'll start with the 6th century; Boethius writes:
- "Fear naught, and hope naught: thus shall you have a weak man's rage disarmed."
The original latin verse is: - Nec speres aliquid nec extimescas; I have found the exact same verse at Mihai Eminescu(feel free to google him:P). I'll show you the english translation that reads:
Waves that rise can never hold;
If they urge or if they cheer,
You remain aloof and cold.
Or another translation:
Wave-like things like waves shall pass;
Should they urge or should they call,
Keep as cool as ice or glass.
Between the 6th century and the 19th, I have found Spinoza:
Proof.--Emotions of hope and fear cannot exist without pain. For fear is pain, and hope cannot exist without fear; therefore these emotions cannot be good in themselves, but only in so far as they can restrain excessive pleasure.Q.E.D.
If men had not this hope and this fear, but believed that the mind perishes with the body, and that no hope of prolonged life remains for the wretches who are broken down with the burden of piety, they would return to their own inclinations, controlling everything in accordance with their lusts, and desiring to obey fortune rather than themselves. Such a course appears to me not less absurd than if a man, because he does not believe that he can by wholesome food sustain his body for ever, should wish to cram himself with poisons and deadly fare; or if, because he sees that the mind is not eternal or immortal, he should prefer to be out of his mind altogether, and to live without the use of reason; these ideas are so absurd as to be scarcely worth refuting.
This could also be seen as a direct attack at Nihilism, but there was no talk about nihilism at that time, such a thing is to absurd to a rationalist.
Yes, I've done it again! Don't take me too seriously. I just feel like playing Tetris with this things..
Regardless, I do thank you for trying to provide hope to this thread, even though, as I'm sure is obvious, hope is just a word for the murder of a man's peace of mind.
'What, you? The last I remember it was you who sent me off to fight a basilisk, only to have me turned into
...'
Bam, flesh to stone! *Chortle*.
See, that's another of Xan's charms. He gets you to think philosophically.