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Romance: Viconia or Jaheria?

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Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,634
    Jaheria
    Remember that Solaufein is very confident in is his houses' protection. He was probably right to the point that Phaere HAD to wait for an outsider to make her move on him, to divert an entire houses' wrath from her own. Consequently this does grant power to charname over her, after all, I'm sure Solaufein's house would like to know who gave the order to murder him.
    Mirandel
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Jaheria
    Mirandel said:

    Charname is in the position now, where Paere is already owe him a lot and needs him (eliminating Solaufein by her order made her even depend of Charneme's silence now).

    I mean, just to underscore differences in interpretation... you think the fact that Phaere is dependent on Charname's silence gives her more reason to respect you if you start tugging at the leash and acting less-than-unswervingly-faithful.

    Personally, I think it gives her more reason to kill you if you start tugging at the leash and acting less-than-unswervingly-faithful. (Or rather, to try.)
    Artona
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    ThacoBell said:

    Remember that Solaufein is very confident in is his houses' protection. He was probably right to the point that Phaere HAD to wait for an outsider to make her move on him, to divert an entire houses' wrath from her own. Consequently this does grant power to charname over her, after all, I'm sure Solaufein's house would like to know who gave the order to murder him.

    Soulafein still shows worry that something can happen to him at almost any time and is only assured by the hope that his faithfulness and unwavering loyalty will cause his house to protect him. But it doesn't protect him from his own house. Phaere would have no power to order him around if she did not have some sway or power over his house. If there was any sense of such power being able to be used against Phaere Soulafein like would have known about it and mentioned to the PC how to use it considering he hated Phaere. Instead he finds that his only recourse is to play along with his supposed Demise which means he can't return to his home and that protection and give you an item that will will help you to undermine her own position to somebody greater in quite a dramatic fashion(giving you the set of fake eggs that can be handed over so her own attempt to parley with the demon will fail). Naratively the only other option you have to getting her in trouble is to tell the Matron Mother about the eggs after Phaere gives you the fake ones so that the Matron Mother goes and destroys her for the betrayal.


    The reality is that mechanically there is very little chance to fail as you go through the Underdark story arc of BG2. You can just keep adding on little pieces to a better and better ending (seen as Good by most) by matching the duplicity of the dark elves with your own. Each individual task to that part of the story gives you at least a couple of options of how to handle them. But it's only the very worst outcome where you technically fail. Even on most of the possible outcomes where you don't manage to return the silver eggs the dragon doesn't do anything to you for failing to return them. Everything else is increasing levels of success. With the best ending helping out the Rock Gnomes, saving Soulafein from his immediate death(but possibly cursing him to a more drawn out one), decimating 1 to 3 nests of evil creatures not to far from the surface, betraying some power players in Ust Natha and managing to get away with it while actually rescueing the eggs and returning them to their good dragon mother who then moves on from the area.

    The story on the other hand however is portrayed that you could fail at any moment and has a vibe that everybody is out to get you. Pushed further by some of the tiny side quests in the area. Particularly inside of Ust Natha itself with a couple runins where beings see right through your disguise but decide not to tell based on how you handle them. There is a sense that your supposedly being watched or monitored or people that are near you or giving orders are looking for something to be wrong to use against you or might reveal the truth at any moment. It is a vibe that gets slowly lost on successive playthroughs as we memorize all of the outcomes until we run through it methodically without even really caring overall about the story anymore. Most powergamers pushing towards the ultimate "good" result because it just so happens to be the path to the most xp and the best treasures.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 228
    Viconia
    SomeSort said:


    I mean, just to underscore differences in interpretation... you think the fact that Phaere is dependent on Charname's silence gives her more reason to respect you if you start tugging at the leash and acting less-than-unswervingly-faithful.

    Personally, I think it gives her more reason to kill you if you start tugging at the leash and acting less-than-unswervingly-faithful. (Or rather, to try.)

    I do think that at this point of the game you are not an easy pray for Phaere anymore and that suggested sex was her way to establish dominance and show who is still in charge, plus, bind you more to her cause. All signs of weakness she knows she has. And that does make her dangerous but not right now - Solaufein is the example that she will wait for the right time to kill and it's not now.

    But that's not the point. Our discussion helped me to formulate general though about "objectivity" of game events and NPCs behavior. There is not such thing - objectivity - and whoever you play whatever you do you can find reasons supporting that particular view and gameplay. Want to play evil? Go ahead, be the one and safely blame every "good" NPC to be a hypocrite - game totally allows that. Want to follow a good path? Sure thing - there are enough ways for even paladins to maintain their holiness and you can safely rub the obvious possibilities to evil NPC's noses.
    The only thing changing is the view of companion's behavior and reasons you use to justify that particular PT. And this is exactly what we are doing - discussing what reasons can we use to justify this or that choice.

    I know, I know - "thank you, Captain Obvious. As if we did not know that." It is a common knowledge but I needed to put it in words for myself. Would not even argue with @fateless about everything being just simplified and unrealistic game-mechanics to make different PTs doable (of course it is, this is just a game after all). The point is - everything is there and nobody is "more right" in his/her choices.

    Artona
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,088
    Viconia
    ThacoBell said:

    Also note that Aerie is EXTREMELY naive. She quite frankly isn't ready for most of what happens in SoA. Its not until ToB that she matures.

    Which is very, very unlikely given the situation she has survived.

    The way her "innocence" and "naivity" is played up fits into the narrative of
    good- innocent, untouched, non sexual. Even if it makes no sense.

    She was a slave, she is attractive/unusual/exotic, she would have been used. Suggesting anything else is far fetched in the scenario we are presented with where she can be shut in a small cage to the point where her wings rot. That has been written to emphasise how "dehumanised" she has become to the people who captured her. She was an "object" to be treated and used as the captors saw fit.

    But we are expected to believe they had a line they wouldn't cross to preserve Aerie being able to be portrayed as "pure"?

    Whereas Viconia, in a less likely scenario considering she had the favour of the townspeople because of her being associated with Charname, is almost "automatically" raped by the neighbours. Of course she is, she's evil.

    Just look at what the writers have done over and over again.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    (I have trouble remembering the command to direct to people. this is my only forum that does it.)

    @Mirandel My point was more that the mechanics don't entirely fit the story that we are given. So saying that the mechanics allow us to do something is proof of our standing in the story based narrative doesn't really look. Even though we base most of our decisions as we go on around those mechanics rather than the story itself.

    @UnderstandMouseMagic Like I said previously. The supposedly innocent and naïve one is the only one that starts well into a second relationship while being with you and yet at the same time is the one that complains loudest if you take actions to protect the party that infringe on that relationship. And there is never any clear indication if she's slept with HD during that whole process.

    Supposedly she was kept like a side show freak to be displayed until her wings rotted. But I'm in agreement with you. In a world that will lay into Viconia simply because of her race. I can't see Aerie coming off unscathed and innocent and whiney as she is when you pick her up and bring her along with your party.

    Yet the one that is used to being betrayed simply for the colour of her skin is betrayed in such a way after she has spent months slowly let's her guard down and gets jumped on for it when she's not actually doing anything evil simply because she's supposed to be evil. I think if she wasn't written with these kinds of events she would be well on her way towards being Neutral even before charname showing her that life can be different to turn her Neutral in his company in ToB. And I've always felt like her ending blurb was written from the aspect of her being evil (and suffering a fate simply for being drow) and never designed to take into account her change in view of the world or her accomplishments.
    UnderstandMouseMagic
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 228
    edited July 6
    Viconia
    fateless said:

    (I have trouble remembering the command to direct to people. this is my only forum that does it.)

    @Mirandel My point was more that the mechanics don't entirely fit the story that we are given. So saying that the mechanics allow us to do something is proof of our standing in the story based narrative doesn't really look. Even though we base most of our decisions as we go on around those mechanics rather than the story itself.

    Sorry, had to be more clear - I call it "simplification" though mean same thing you are saying. Like urgent tasks that are not so urgent after all or insulting someone very important with a hot temper and not being killed on spot but smiled to and called "fiery". Such things do contradict the story but here to allow different expressions without "game over" after every dialog. Most of the time, though, you can work around that simplification and find some tiny (sometimes unintended even) bits of information/pieces of dialogs/logical conclusions that in turn allow you to handcanon any situation the way you want. That "unfit mechanic" is the simple way to let you improvise with the story.

    Post edited by Mirandel on
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    Mirandel said:

    Sorry, had to be more clear - I call it "simplification" though mean same thing you are saying. Like urgent tasks that are not so urgent after all or insulting someone very importent with a hot temper and not being killed on spot but smiled to and called "fiery". Such things do contradict the story but here to allow different expressions without "game over" after every dialog. Most of the time, though, you can work around that simplification and find some tiny (sometimes unintended even) bits of information/pieces of dialogs/logical conclusions that in turn allow you to handcanon any situation the way you want. That "unfit mechanic" is the simple way to let you improvise with the story.

    I'm not sure if it would even be feasible but for me it would have been interesting to actually be able to truly fail your infiltration of the city. specially if it had levels of possibility just like succeeding does. Maybe even being able to do it in such a way that your found out and hunted but you manage to do something to still secure the silver dragon eggs and return them so that overall you still accomplish that "higher goal". Those consequences in that tense moment would have been far more interesting to me.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 642
    Jaheria


    The way her "innocence" and "naivity" is played up fits into the narrative of
    good- innocent, untouched, non sexual. Even if it makes no sense.

    She was a slave, she is attractive/unusual/exotic, she would have been used.

    But if she were sold, her value as a virgin would be SO much higher. Something only a high noble or great merchant could afford.

    Sorry to seem base, but this is how slavers think.


    Ravenslight
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    edited July 6
    Viconia
    tbone1 said:


    The way her "innocence" and "naivity" is played up fits into the narrative of
    good- innocent, untouched, non sexual. Even if it makes no sense.

    She was a slave, she is attractive/unusual/exotic, she would have been used.

    But if she were sold, her value as a virgin would be SO much higher. Something only a high noble or great merchant could afford.

    Sorry to seem base, but this is how slavers think.


    it's also contrary to her ending up in a circus instead of being sold under such greedy circumstances. Which is where we find her suggesting that she's not so unused. It also assumes that she didnt' do anything while she was still with her own people. which is never ever touched upon in any way.

    Particularly when truthfully her exotic and rare nature would catch a high price reguardless of her supposed virginity. Particularly with her wings intact which rotted off because the slavers didn't actually take enough care of her to keep from happening so it's unlikely they would have skipped such abuses either.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,163
    Sometimes I feel like I'm the only sex negative person around. Excess in nearly anything has been seen as evil by almost any culture ever, sex has rarely been excempt. This even goes beyond religion, "moderation in all things" after all. I suspect the reason for this notion is that humans are naturally boundary pushers, and giving into excess in one example will tend to lead to more giving in later; hence 'the wagon', and falling off it.

    Regarding Aerie, we honestly don't know about her sexual past, but I will point out people rarely boink circus animals, which is what she was. She really isn't human, and Amn can be pretty bigotted. There was also Quayle, who we assume would be protective. She certainly doesn't assume people will find her attractive, though in truth victims of all sorts have low self-esteem. I suspect she's more or less inexperienced though, she's too naive.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,088
    Viconia
    DreadKhan said:

    Sometimes I feel like I'm the only sex negative person around. Excess in nearly anything has been seen as evil by almost any culture ever, sex has rarely been excempt. This even goes beyond religion, "moderation in all things" after all. I suspect the reason for this notion is that humans are naturally boundary pushers, and giving into excess in one example will tend to lead to more giving in later; hence 'the wagon', and falling off it.

    Regarding Aerie, we honestly don't know about her sexual past, but I will point out people rarely boink circus animals, which is what she was. She really isn't human, and Amn can be pretty bigotted. There was also Quayle, who we assume would be protective. She certainly doesn't assume people will find her attractive, though in truth victims of all sorts have low self-esteem. I suspect she's more or less inexperienced though, she's too naive.

    I would agree,

    "moderation in all things".

    But it's the writers, and what we are discussing is the stories as written in the game, where nothing is moderate.
    It's virgin/whore, good/evil.

    "Using" the idea that somebody is not a human so that you can treat them with as much contempt as you feel fit has a hell of a lot of precidence in history.
    But I very much doubt anybody believed that sort of BS, it was just used as justification.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,634
    Jaheria

    ThacoBell said:

    Also note that Aerie is EXTREMELY naive. She quite frankly isn't ready for most of what happens in SoA. Its not until ToB that she matures.

    Which is very, very unlikely given the situation she has survived.

    The way her "innocence" and "naivity" is played up fits into the narrative of
    good- innocent, untouched, non sexual. Even if it makes no sense.

    She was a slave, she is attractive/unusual/exotic, she would have been used. Suggesting anything else is far fetched in the scenario we are presented with where she can be shut in a small cage to the point where her wings rot. That has been written to emphasise how "dehumanised" she has become to the people who captured her. She was an "object" to be treated and used as the captors saw fit.

    But we are expected to believe they had a line they wouldn't cross to preserve Aerie being able to be portrayed as "pure"?

    Whereas Viconia, in a less likely scenario considering she had the favour of the townspeople because of her being associated with Charname, is almost "automatically" raped by the neighbours. Of course she is, she's evil.

    Just look at what the writers have done over and over again.
    You have a much higher fixation on sex than you claim the devs did. In no romance is sex the climax, it is at best a footnote in the relationship. FAR more time and dialogue is spent getting your partner to open up emotionally and then learning more about them. "But we are expected to believe they had a line they wouldn't cross to preserve Aerie being able to be portrayed as "pure"?" I mean, the game IS rated "teen".

    Oh, and I don't know that I would call Aerie "exotic", she is an elf, she looks like all the other hundreds of elves seen in the game. "But ThacoBell, she is a WINGED elf." Not anymore she isn't, for all appearances she looks like an elf with some nasty scars. Good luck convincing anyone that she is really an avariel.
    DreadKhan
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,088
    Viconia
    tbone1 said:


    The way her "innocence" and "naivity" is played up fits into the narrative of
    good- innocent, untouched, non sexual. Even if it makes no sense.

    She was a slave, she is attractive/unusual/exotic, she would have been used.

    But if she were sold, her value as a virgin would be SO much higher. Something only a high noble or great merchant could afford.

    Sorry to seem base, but this is how slavers think.


    Then how would she end up in a circus?
    Hardly the place where there would be lots of money around for that sort of thing.
    Her value as a "freak", wouldn't be affected by being used for sex anyway.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    See I'm on the same side as @ThacoBell and @UnderstandMouseMagic on this one. If the slavers are going to ruin their cash cow in her exotic nature by keeping her for an extended period so movement restricted that her wings rot and turn her into effectively a regular elf. They aren't going to spare themselves from ruining other traits that increase her price. and she wouldn't have ended up in a circus. Traits that aren't needed in where she ended up anyway.

    As for comments that she is scene as a beast and people wouldn't have sex with beasts and this saved her. Human history is full of one human treating another human as little more than an animal and yet still doing carnal acts with said subjugated humans seen as beneath them. So that argument holds little weight.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,163
    Actually, chastity is pretty moderate, I don't think you get to declare it a non-issue. You may be arguing the game strictly follows whore/madonna paradigm, but thats not been proven. All the Ilmatarans afaik are broke (and many are outrightly bonkers), but thats not proof the devs are presenting an 'profit by evil or be broke!' worldview. Plenty of sex is presented to be innocuous, and do you marry anyone in a romance officially?? if not, those would all be whore relationships in that paradigm, and they are all, even Viconia really, presented as 'decent'. If a work doesn't consistently 'punish' whores while rewarding virgins it cannot be called out this way in good faith.

    Yes, dehumanizing has been used to excuse most atrocities, but beastiality has always been extremely rare, and Aerie is not just figuratively dehumanized, she's literally, visibly non-human. Desire for Aerie would be a bit far afield for many humans in Amn.
    ThacoBell
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    edited July 6
    Viconia
    She's Humanoid. Which is actually the correct term for Forgotten Realms. Human is a Race and sits within the larger balloon of humanoid. Humanoid is the difference between being what is considered a man or a beast. Being interested in Aerie sexually is no different than being interested in any other elf. Falling in love with her still makes half elves just like with any other elf. And Elves are considered highly attractive by most races including humans in Amn.

    If she had her wings it would be no more far fetched than being attracted to a Tiefling. Both of which are considered far more human than any beast. Aerie does not fit the beast moniker that your trying to label her with in any shape or form.
    ThacoBell
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,163
    She's still visibly non-human until she lost her wings (and couldn't technically be considered humanoid while she has a pair of big, visible wings, as thats blatantly outside the humanoid mold of 4 limbs, specifically 2 arms and 2 legs granting ambulation and offering manual dexterity. I agree elves would be humanoid, as would dwarves, orcs, goblins, etc, but not driders or centaurs. Maybe you think a circus would be prostituting minotaurs??

    Note, Aerie's wings rotted off; its not like she was actually treated as a humanoid, she was treated like a dog locked in a cage, and slaves are put to some form of work usually. She was literally a circus animal.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,634
    Jaheria
    @fateless Actually I'm saying that Aerie was probably spared any kind of sexual abuse because the game is only a teen rating. Bioware didn't really try to be "edgy" until Dragon Age (city elf origin anyone?). As for a lore reason, maybe she could have been. Aerie could be "pure" because of her naive and fairly innocent worldview, as well as how she views sex should be. Being or not being a virgin wouldn't change that.
    DreadKhan
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,088
    Viconia
    DreadKhan said:

    She's still visibly non-human until she lost her wings (and couldn't technically be considered humanoid while she has a pair of big, visible wings, as thats blatantly outside the humanoid mold of 4 limbs, specifically 2 arms and 2 legs granting ambulation and offering manual dexterity. I agree elves would be humanoid, as would dwarves, orcs, goblins, etc, but not driders or centaurs. Maybe you think a circus would be prostituting minotaurs??

    Note, Aerie's wings rotted off; its not like she was actually treated as a humanoid, she was treated like a dog locked in a cage, and slaves are put to some form of work usually. She was literally a circus animal.

    I would think she was kept in a cage because they were worried she'd fly away. And it doesn't necessarily say anything about how they viewed her. She suffered neglect, it even says in game that the reason her wings were removed was because they atrophied through lack of use.

    Visibly non human because of wings?
    Aerie doesn't consider herself as that, she even says at one point she wished charname(?) could see her wings.
    Your hypothesis that it's the wings that make a huge difference to whether she is seen as humanoid breaks down when there isn't any scenario where charname would fall out of love with her if she regained the wings.

    Angels are seen as humanoid, I've never ever come across the idea anywhere that "wings" make the difference between seen as a sentient human/being and some animal.
    How many would think to eat Thalyntyres apprentice once they have spoken to him?
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,163
    They vould use less metal and put a collar on her w/chain. Cages are costly. She was trested as a circus attraction like all the other animals. :( its not a nice thing, but she'd be less likely to be harassed, in keeping with her lost wings due to staggering levels of neglect.

    Angels are NOT seen as humanoid in their source book. Thats people later on adding on a theory that people became angels after death.

    I get the feeling you aren't going to accept that a circus animal might not have been sexually assaulted, so maybe we should move on. If there was anything beyond conjecture to suggest the was abused in that manner in a game rated teen ffs I'd agree with you, but all your points on Aerie are atextual.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,088
    Viconia
    ThacoBell said:

    @fateless Actually I'm saying that Aerie was probably spared any kind of sexual abuse because the game is only a teen rating. Bioware didn't really try to be "edgy" until Dragon Age (city elf origin anyone?). As for a lore reason, maybe she could have been. Aerie could be "pure" because of her naive and fairly innocent worldview, as well as how she views sex should be. Being or not being a virgin wouldn't change that.

    I would agree with that. The game is teen rated.
    But the inconsistancy shown considering the detail that is gone into with Viconia rather raises a question doesn't it?

    I always play as female so consequently didn't do the Viconia/Jaheira/Aerie romances for years, not until coming back to the games and finding out on the internet there was added content if you do the romances.

    I remember at the time being shocked at what Viconia tells you and also feeling it was somewhat gratuitous. If you use your "not so edgy then" excuse, why was that episode included? The game could have easily done without it.

  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    Even being hidden under implication her story is pretty heavy hit compared to some other things in the game. Particularly for when the game came out. Other parts of Viconia's romance are as well like the aggressiveness with which she pushes back and doesn't just play the damsel was also very different from other games at that time.

    I also remember being surprised when Aerie's romance ended up producing a baby. Because that was another touch and detail and brought up subtle implications that hadn't really been touched on in video games to that point. Before that all I can remember is children either being wholely glossed over or just didnt' happen during the adventure. if they played a part at all it was usually during the epilogue. usually as part of some happily ever after style ending.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 228
    Viconia

    ThacoBell said:

    @fateless Actually I'm saying that Aerie was probably spared any kind of sexual abuse because the game is only a teen rating. Bioware didn't really try to be "edgy" until Dragon Age (city elf origin anyone?). As for a lore reason, maybe she could have been. Aerie could be "pure" because of her naive and fairly innocent worldview, as well as how she views sex should be. Being or not being a virgin wouldn't change that.

    I would agree with that. The game is teen rated.
    But the inconsistancy shown considering the detail that is gone into with Viconia rather raises a question doesn't it?

    I always play as female so consequently didn't do the Viconia/Jaheira/Aerie romances for years, not until coming back to the games and finding out on the internet there was added content if you do the romances.

    I remember at the time being shocked at what Viconia tells you and also feeling it was somewhat gratuitous. If you use your "not so edgy then" excuse, why was that episode included? The game could have easily done without it.

    May be it was not inconsistency? Aerie could be raped but why she necessarily would have? Neglect is one thing - rape is another. May be the idea was to say "circus is not a brothel" or "BDSM lust chamber"? After all, when Aerie lost her wings and was not sitting in the cage anymore she remained in circus (and the way she was sent with Charname - she could walk away any time). Hardly a behavior for a rape victim.
    Even in prisons not every prisoner is raped by other prisoners or guards. Why circus has to be worse?

    Viconia was not raped every step on the surface either. She happen to run into those who did such things. Not every man is a rapist just because he can be one, you know.
    ThacoBellArtona
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,634
    Jaheria
    Also note that rape is never outright stated at any point in the games. It may be hinted at by Viconia when "abuse" is mentioned, but there are far more types of abuse than rape. Being teen rated, its possible through implication, but in no way confirmed or set in stone.
    Mirandel
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 291
    Viconia
    The implication in Viconia's case for me personally has always been in the way it was stated. but there is truth in that it's quite unconfirmed and in a teen rating game it never will be confirmed.

    In Aerie's case we are never really told what she was made to do. her time with the slavers was before her time in the circus. The circus has been her home since Quayle saved her and started taking care of her. We only learned that she was kept in a cage and neglected to a fair extent until it affected her health and she lost her wings. Litterally nothing else about what was done to her or not done to her. She actually tells us less about the experience than Viconia does.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Jaheria
    DreadKhan said:

    Plenty of sex is presented to be innocuous, and do you marry anyone in a romance officially?? if not, those would all be whore relationships in that paradigm.

    Not necessarily. The Madonna/whore complex is independent of matters of marriage. Remember, the original "Madonna" was a woman who refrained from sex even with her husband, and the complex has often been used to explain why some men commit adultery, (rather than debate their Madonna wife by using her as a whore).

    (Though let the record show that I consider that latter to carry about as much weight as most other trendy Freudian psychobabble.)
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Jaheria
    ThacoBell said:

    You have a much higher fixation on sex than you claim the devs did. In no romance is sex the climax, it is at best a footnote in the relationship. FAR more time and dialogue is spent getting your partner to open up emotionally and then learning more about them. "But we are expected to believe they had a line they wouldn't cross to preserve Aerie being able to be portrayed as "pure"?" I mean, the game IS rated "teen".

    Oh, and I don't know that I would call Aerie "exotic", she is an elf, she looks like all the other hundreds of elves seen in the game. "But ThacoBell, she is a WINGED elf." Not anymore she isn't, for all appearances she looks like an elf with some nasty scars. Good luck convincing anyone that she is really an avariel.

    If you take the first opportunity to have sex with Aerie, it's most definitely the "climax" of the relationship. (Narratively speaking, of course. I would never be so crude as to resort to punnery in matters of sex or war.)
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 473
    edited July 8
    Viconias is the one romance I've done most times..Mostly in SoA though. I'm getting tired though, since I always do it the rough way and wait for real time..Though I'm aware you can advance real time with the console. That being said almost 1 hour of real time advancement between each love dialog has aged terribly for me, I hate that quest design.

    Jaheira I ran into bugs a few years earlier and I haven't been bothered with it since. The advancement and setup feels more detailed though, since there's actually a chain of quests with the harpers involved, which Viconia doesn't have. Usually I feel some kind of disagreement with Jaheiras comments about my rp style..So I get frustrated more often than not and kick her out.

    I still favor Viconia though, because I like her background story from the underdark..The other bits with the actual relationship feels a bit meh these days.

    Overall though I guess my preference is neither of them these days...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,634
    Jaheria
    SomeSort said:

    ThacoBell said:

    You have a much higher fixation on sex than you claim the devs did. In no romance is sex the climax, it is at best a footnote in the relationship. FAR more time and dialogue is spent getting your partner to open up emotionally and then learning more about them. "But we are expected to believe they had a line they wouldn't cross to preserve Aerie being able to be portrayed as "pure"?" I mean, the game IS rated "teen".

    Oh, and I don't know that I would call Aerie "exotic", she is an elf, she looks like all the other hundreds of elves seen in the game. "But ThacoBell, she is a WINGED elf." Not anymore she isn't, for all appearances she looks like an elf with some nasty scars. Good luck convincing anyone that she is really an avariel.

    If you take the first opportunity to have sex with Aerie, it's most definitely the "climax" of the relationship. (Narratively speaking, of course. I would never be so crude as to resort to punnery in matters of sex or war.)
    Its not the climax because that is its failure state. It happens at maybe the halfway point of the SoA relationship, and there is still more in ToB.
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