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Romance: Viconia or Jaheria?

inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22
Well I'm on chapter 3 and I have kept both Viconia and Jaheria (dumb I know, but both romances are too good so I kept them both.)

But I hit the dialogue where Viccy wants to talk about the underdark and now I'm legit forced to choose between 2 romances. Thing is... I have zero clue who to choose, simply because I really like both characters and both romances interested me greatly, And since I'm a lawful paladin I was edging toward Jaheria but Viccy is showing her soft side which made me in awe with her development. so which romance is in your opinion better?

Romance: Viconia or Jaheria? 60 votes

Viconia
51%
rorikonRoznodasLuthfordQueegondibDJKajuruKennisRedWizardJohnSmith921030GirewanArdulAnterosSmilingSwordYamchaAerakarDragonKingEugVVlbrunardoMirandelUnderstandMouseMagic 31 votes
Jaheria
48%
aqzinaO_BruceMontresor_SPJames_MgnaumiecrecklessheartStefanOQuartzAnduinNecroscopeJuliusBorisovJarlealeBalrog99karnor00ThacoBellJarrakulluskansmady3thespaceChirico 29 votes
AerakarJuliusBorisov
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Comments

  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 624
    edited June 26
    Jaheria
    I think they are the best romances in the game, even with the inclusion of the EE characters. I doubt you will regret whichever is your decision - narratively, they are both very rewarding.
    inkblowoutQuartzAerakar
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22

    I think they are the best romances in the game, even with the inclusion of the EE characters. I doubt you will regret whichever is your decision - narratively, they are both very rewarding.

    I agree, I enjoyed both so far (Did not like Aerie's romance development really.) and they are both clerics and both have their strengths and weaknesses as a character. But damn it's hard to choose (thus why I made the poll.)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,023
    Jaheria
    Well Viconia is abusive and manipulative so calling it a 'romance' is some kind of terrible joke. Go with Jaheira, she has a far relationship with charname.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Jaheria
    Viconia's romance is good, but Jahiera's is the best in the game. It's also the longest, and it has the best rewards for completing it, (especially if you're a larcenous sort willing to pickpocket the various actors as they come and go).
    Aerakar
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,048
    It's a tough call. I love me some V, but Jaheira is well written and objectively has the best rewards.
    AerakarArdul
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 700
    Viconia
    I think Paladin wouldn't court wife of fallen comrade with such haste.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    Viconia
    Like others said, both romances are worth playing. You may also consider for next time to add one of the friendship mods for NPCs to your game, thus you follow one romance and still have the option to keep a closer friendship relation to the other.
    Voted Viconia because you are a paladin. You noticed her softer side and may want to redeem her and free her from her ghosts of the Underdark. The contrast makes it interesting, especially when you get into ToB. Jaheira is maybe too much of the ideal choice but on the other hand more realistic for a paladin.
    None is a mistake.
    Aerakar
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,241
    Viconia
    dib said:

    Let's see, hot dark elf babe trained in erotic arts or dead friends old wife who likes to act as your mother... tough choice.

    Well summed up.

    If charname was female and V and J male, would there be the same dilemma?

    In that circumstance, pretty sure most women friends would be telling Charname that it was bloody weird going after the stand in Dad. And so quickly.
    They might warn you off the dangerous, "hot dark elf" as being dangerous, but I think they'd be very understanding.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    Viconia

    Poor Jaheira, she often gets such flack for daring to love again. :)

    I can somewhat understand the reluctance of some who think of Jaheira as a mother figure to enter into a romantic relationship with her. “Icky” and all that. But the truth is she was never the protagonist’s mother. She didn’t even have a hand in raising him.

    She was a “family friend”, Gorion’s friend. But the protagonist never knew her at all growing up. Lots of people meet their lifemates among family friends.

    If your protagonist traveled through BGI with both Jaheira and Khalid at his side, perhaps he feels guilty for falling in love with his old friends wife. But that is your story. Another might feel that Khalid never deserved her, or he might feel obligated to take care of his friends wife after his death. Or he simply might have always loved her from afar. There are so many ways to think of and role-play this.

    The one objection that I really can’t understand though, is that she is somehow being disrespectful to Khalid by falling in love again. I can only assume that most people that feel this way have never lost their lifemate. It takes strength to go on after such a loss. To me, she is to be admired for making that choice. And no one can decide for another how long to grieve, or how much time should pass before seeking love again.

    I fully agree. It's these circumstances that give this romance the depth. Jaheira is druid and this *circle of life*, even if a cliche, is part of it. She speaks of Khalid often and it is part of the romance that neither she nor the protagonist will forget about him. She has loved before and she will love again.
    The many conversations reveal her as a woman with a rich life already lived. That doesn't mean that cannot have an equally rich future with the protagonist before her still. With her elven blood she appears ageless and attractive to a young man. Some parts of the romance have a bitter sweet touch that makes it unique. But once she opens up and accepts her feelings for the protagonist she is a passionate woman, very much different from Viconia's far more *animal* passion.
    I voted for Viconia in this poll because of the paladin setting. But Jaheira's is a wonderful romance. In addition it shows a development of her character, or rather that she is not following the initial impression she may give in early BG1 in some stereotype way, but shows more facettes the longer you know her.
    ThacoBelltbone1Quartz
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,310
    Jaheria
    For Paladin run, I would go with Jaheira. Although to be honest, I think the best bae for paladin is definitely Aerie.

    It would not be easy to justify lawful good paladin have neutral evil character in party, yet alone going as far as starting romantic relationship with that person. Abusive relationship at that. True, Viconia mellows down a bit after some time, but that's in regard to PC and pretty much no one else. She's still mean and sometimes even cruel to others.

    Don't give her a "Draco in a leather pants" treatment.

    And yes, I realize that she can be redeemed. But to neutral alingment, as far as I know. Problem is, it happens pretty much at the end of the game, and even Sarevok's change is more notable than hers. Sarevok's, out of all people.
    ThacoBellZaghoul
  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148
    edited June 26
    Viconia
    Artona said:

    I think Paladin wouldn't court wife of fallen comrade with such haste.

    Agree. Jah is too much of an auntie figure for me to be romantically interested in her. I have tried it, but it was still unresolved by the end of the game. Sooo... I go with Neera, now. :) Being a Paladin and all, I can't really roleplay romancing an evil character and I just can't take Aerie

  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for answering you guys... you have brought a bunch of good points.

    But there is one thing I was missing that I was thinking about the other day. With Viconia being Neutral Evil atm, won't she leave if I have a high reputation? Because if so, I'll be ditching her for Jaheria, seeing how I won't do evil deeds to impress my lover.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,310
    Jaheria
    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    edited June 26
    Viconia
    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    Too bad - I always forget about that because I always play with a mod that corrects this error. (Why should Viconia leave a good party? Nothing can be better for a drow who is otherwise despised and hunted than the shelter of a respected party. And why should she ever care what other surfacers think about her PC? It makes as little sense in her case as it makes for Edwin. The good party is the savest shelter and disguise for them.) >>> Just add Opcode 360 = ignore reputation to the creature file.
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22
    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    Too bad - I always forget about that because I always play with a mod that corrects this error. (Why should Viconia leave a good party? Nothing can be better for a drow who is otherwise despised and hunted than the shelter of a respected party. And why should she ever care what other surfacers think about her PC? It makes as little sense in her case as it makes for Edwin. The good party is the savest shelter and disguise for them.) >>> Just add Opcode 360 = ignore reputation to the creature file.
    Just downloaded the happy patch so that viccy complains but never leaves the party. (as well as every other evil character.)

    Ya it really doesn't make sense that she'd leave because she sticks around, she questions PC on his choices throughout quests but she's usually like "it's your choice" like she doesn't really care what you do. And plus she's honestly not that bad when you question her actions in her stories she's always like "it's the drow way" or "I'm drow, I'm raised like that".

    She enjoys PC's company but unfortunately she's evil and she's just like any other evil character and so rep can make her leave. It doesn't make sense in a storytelling kinda way, but it makes sense in a game mechanic.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    Viconia

    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    Too bad - I always forget about that because I always play with a mod that corrects this error. (Why should Viconia leave a good party? Nothing can be better for a drow who is otherwise despised and hunted than the shelter of a respected party. And why should she ever care what other surfacers think about her PC? It makes as little sense in her case as it makes for Edwin. The good party is the savest shelter and disguise for them.) >>> Just add Opcode 360 = ignore reputation to the creature file.
    Just downloaded the happy patch so that viccy complains but never leaves the party. (as well as every other evil character.)

    Ya it really doesn't make sense that she'd leave because she sticks around, she questions PC on his choices throughout quests but she's usually like "it's your choice" like she doesn't really care what you do. And plus she's honestly not that bad when you question her actions in her stories she's always like "it's the drow way" or "I'm drow, I'm raised like that".

    She enjoys PC's company but unfortunately she's evil and she's just like any other evil character and so rep can make her leave. It doesn't make sense in a storytelling kinda way, but it makes sense in a game mechanic.
    There have always been exceptions in NPCs, first of all Imoen who sticks with you through thick and thin but also some mod NPCs who do not care about what others think and take PC as you play it. It's a decision to give storytelling or mechanic the preference. Personally, I prefer a story based individual treatment over the *happy patch* which just grabs them all. Does it even work on EE? Ajantis staying in an evil party makes no sense but Viconia ignoring good rep does.
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22

    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    O_Bruce said:

    In unmodded game, she will leave if reputation is 18 or more. Or at least there is a chance she'll do it.

    Too bad - I always forget about that because I always play with a mod that corrects this error. (Why should Viconia leave a good party? Nothing can be better for a drow who is otherwise despised and hunted than the shelter of a respected party. And why should she ever care what other surfacers think about her PC? It makes as little sense in her case as it makes for Edwin. The good party is the savest shelter and disguise for them.) >>> Just add Opcode 360 = ignore reputation to the creature file.
    Just downloaded the happy patch so that viccy complains but never leaves the party. (as well as every other evil character.)

    Ya it really doesn't make sense that she'd leave because she sticks around, she questions PC on his choices throughout quests but she's usually like "it's your choice" like she doesn't really care what you do. And plus she's honestly not that bad when you question her actions in her stories she's always like "it's the drow way" or "I'm drow, I'm raised like that".

    She enjoys PC's company but unfortunately she's evil and she's just like any other evil character and so rep can make her leave. It doesn't make sense in a storytelling kinda way, but it makes sense in a game mechanic.
    There have always been exceptions in NPCs, first of all Imoen who sticks with you through thick and thin but also some mod NPCs who do not care about what others think and take PC as you play it. It's a decision to give storytelling or mechanic the preference. Personally, I prefer a story based individual treatment over the *happy patch* which just grabs them all. Does it even work on EE? Ajantis staying in an evil party makes no sense but Viconia ignoring good rep does.
    it worked on bg2:EE as far as I know... but conflicts does happen. The happy patch is pretty much having NPCs better tolerate PC rather than tolerate everyone else. I mean many NPCs do tolerate PC to begin with.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,376
    Jaheria

    For voting purposes and OP as paladin I just picked J.
    Hard for me to do the Viccy romance, just am not that masochistic enough to put up with her crap. Only way I MIGHT, would be a Dirgesinger CHARNAME , with both of them worshipping Shar, and him looking up to her as a priestess.

    The Jaheria romance is a tough one but seems to be fit well, esp, the way Khalid is worked into her dreams, having her even question her own thoughts, after a loss, with CHARNAME, at least to me. She seems to develop more as a good friend first, not only from previous BG, but into the romance also, and then goes on from there. B)

    ThacoBell
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,164
    Jaheria
    After completing the game and the Jaheria romance... You honestly find that Jaheria is as
    vulnerable as the rest of us.
    ThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22
    lol expected the poll to help me decide....

    Poll is a tie rip
    lolien
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    Viconia

    lol expected the poll to help me decide....

    Poll is a tie rip

    It still will help you - just look at the reasons people gave you and find those that represent your view or expectation the most.
    The poll tells you that its equality at a high quality level, so whatever you do, you make no big mistake.
    RavenslightThacoBelllolienJuliusBorisov
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 22

    lol expected the poll to help me decide....

    Poll is a tie rip

    Truly, it all comes down to personal preference and play style. Both can be good possibilities, depending on your own preferences. A role-play argument could be made for either.

    As you mentioned that you are liking both of them, up to this point, perhaps you could let your protagonist choose. Yes, I see all those eyes rolling. :) I just mean ask yourself who you think he would choose. Try not to overthink it. Just go with the first name that comes to you in answer to this question.

    The good news is that the other one will be waiting for you in your next play-through. :)
    This pretty much helped me out

    I choose viccy because simply because viccy is redeemable and I see good in her unlike others. Sure she's kinda mean but she does apologize for her harsh comments. And I've posted before (in my "questions about paladins" post) that I try to purge all evil not by violence but by redeeming them into not being evil again. And she's not bad compared to some evil NPCs.

    But thanks everyone for helping me out... I'll go for jaheria on my next playthrough.
    RavenslightlolienQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Jaheria

    With her elven blood she appears ageless and attractive to a young man.

    It's not her elven blood; based on the in-universe timeline, she's only a few years older than Charname.

    I've had discussions about this in the past, but I've never really bought the idea of Jahiera as a mother-figure. *Gorion* might have intended for her to watch over you like that, but Gorion died and he never had any say in it, and Jahiera obviously had very different ideas from the get-go.

    In her very first conversation with you, she basically says "Gorion wanted us to look out for you, but you're a grown adult and I think you can make your own choices." If you dawdled too long in helping her with her quest, she would leave you on the side of the road. She always treated you as a peer and not a ward.
    QuartzThacoBell
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 282
    Jaheria
    SomeSort said:

    In her very first conversation with you, she basically says "Gorion wanted us to look out for you, but you're a grown adult and I think you can make your own choices." If you dawdled too long in helping her with her quest, she would leave you on the side of the road. She always treated you as a peer and not a ward.

    Which is kind of a bit weird given that she knows you're a Bhaalspawn and the Harpers are watching the Bhaalspawn "just in case" as mentioned in BG1, BG2, AND ToB.

    Perhaps they'd be tailing you behind the scenes if you said no to joining?

    Oh, and I went with Jaheira to preserve the Balance.

    But also because yeah, I don't see her as a mother figure, she's canonically somewhere between 5 and 15 years older. Nor does she just fall right for CHARNAME straight out of Irenicus' dungeon, there's self-flagellation and forgiveness for moving on from Khalid.

    Plus it's got a nice long complicated plot about her+Harpers+you.
    QuartzThacoBell
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 306
    Viconia
    Choose Vicona as a lesser evil (pan was not intended). Relationships with her are far from normal, but this is question which (ab)-normality is easier to accept.

    Poor Jaheira, she often gets such flack for daring to love again. :)

    Not so much as "again" but "so soon". First romance talk happen - what? 2 days past escape? 3? I totally understand that timeline is screwed in BG2, but still it feels "too soon".

    It's not the only WTF moment in Jaheira's lines, of course. Every time I pass Khalid body I have to really pay attention and do not click on the very logical question "why don't we simply resurrect him?", because her answer makes no sense what so ever considering previous adventures (thankfully, there is a weak but passable option "he's body is probably too deformed for resurrection"). And combined with an instant romance with CHARNAME it looks like she could not get rid of Khalid fast enough, which is nonsense, obviously.


    She was a “family friend”, Gorion’s friend. But the protagonist never knew her at all growing up. Lots of people meet their lifemates among family friends.

    She was an "older" (much, MUCH older) family friend and a mentor for the duration of BG1 (and SoD). Not sure many widows marry again children of their friends.

    It does not mean, that boys can not fall for elder mature women, that also happen to be their teachers - happens all the time. But it can give some uncomfortable feelings to some too.


    If your protagonist traveled through BGI with both Jaheira and Khalid at his side, perhaps he feels guilty for falling in love with his old friends wife. But that is your story. Another might feel that Khalid never deserved her, or he might feel obligated to take care of his friends wife after his death. Or he simply might have always loved her from afar. There are so many ways to think of and role-play this.

    All reasonable explanations and perfect RP. Still, timing from her side sucks. The romance is well written, but that detail ruined it for me.
    ArtonaAttalus
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