Save vs. Throws on Ammunition
Ravenslight
Member Posts: 1,609
Though “poke them with the pointy end” is often my default attack, I do from time to time try to better understand and use to my advantage better tactics. 
Lately I have been trying to get a better handle on the save vs. mechanic used on some of the ammunitions found in the game.
For instance, if I am understanding it correctly, something with save vs. paralyzation might be better to use against a mage than save vs. spell because they would be less likely to be able to make their save against it. While save vs. spell might be a better choice to use against a melee combatant.
When considering the save vs. limitations placed on some ammunitions, what type of save vs. effect do you find less limiting or most useful, overall?
Lately I have been trying to get a better handle on the save vs. mechanic used on some of the ammunitions found in the game.
For instance, if I am understanding it correctly, something with save vs. paralyzation might be better to use against a mage than save vs. spell because they would be less likely to be able to make their save against it. While save vs. spell might be a better choice to use against a melee combatant.
When considering the save vs. limitations placed on some ammunitions, what type of save vs. effect do you find less limiting or most useful, overall?
- Save vs. Throws on Ammunition15 votes
- Save vs. Spell6.67%
- Save vs. Death6.67%
- Save vs. Paralyzation0.00%
- Save vs. Poison13.33%
- Save vs. Breath33.33%
- Save vs. Polymorph0.00%
- I don’t think much about it.40.00%
8
Comments
in bg1, I don't really dwell on it too much, because basically every enemy has crap saves ( about 95% of the time)
but if anything the save vs death saving throw is usually the enemy's best save
now when it comes to big time baddies and or bosses the saves go as follows:
save vs death: 3
save vs wands: 5
save vs polymorph: 4
save vs breath: 4
save vs spell: 6
so that's why I always try and gear my saving throw effects towards the save vs spell end of the spectrum, especially if that save vs spell comes with a nifty penalty ( like -2 or -4 for example)
although anything that gives a penalty to the save is nice to use though ( like the wand of paralysation for example, absolute menace )
Words of one syllable or lower please, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Save vs. spell is extremely weak against mages, while save vs. death is relatively good against them, but save vs. breath is basically always the best. Enemies in the IE games basically always have poor saves vs. breath. It's the highest saving throw on average, so a save vs. breath is most likely to work.
As for your own saves, it's most important to fortify save vs. spell and to a lesser extent save vs. death, as those are the most common save types. Save vs. wand is hardly ever used at all.
There's a mistake in the poll: save vs. death, save vs. poison, and save vs. paralyzation are the same thing in 2nd edition, and you're missing save vs. wand.
Well, there you go. I’m learning something new.
Yes, I missed Save vs. wand
So, it looks like save vs. Breath is the most powerful against the greatest number of enemies?
Much helpful information here. Thank you everyone!
I found that a lot of weaker enemies will have a worse save vs breath than save vs spell
but when your enemies start getting stronger their save vs spell is weaker than their save vs breath
although I do assume that mages will naturally have a better save vs spell than breath though
Let's say you have a saving throw of 0 vs. death and get hit with something that requires a save vs. death (no modifiers). What happens if you roll a 1? Is it still automatic failure? Or can you become effectively immune to things that require a save if you get its respective save low enough? I'm thinking its the former, that there's always a 5% chance of failure.
in fact if your save vs death is -3 you can't fail a save even if you roll a natural 1 and have a -4 penalty to it
for example:
in the deck of many things, there is one card called donjon ( I believe) and this effect is an imprisonment effect, but it allows a save vs death with a -4 penalty, but if your save vs death is -3 you can't fail the save, your saving throw value needs to match your roll or higher to pass on your save
so if your save vs death is 10, that means you need to roll a 10 or higher on your d20 to pass the save
3rd edition on the other hand ( neverwinter nights series, icewind dale 2 ) had the "bright" idea of making it so you fail no matter what on a roll of a 1 ( except there were a feat or 2 you could take so this wouldn't happen) but in my opinion that game mechanic is complete garbage because then you are playing Russian roulette and now its a race to see who rolls a natural 1 first
I really try hard to avoid using anything that is save=nothing happens. When I do use it, it's either a Hail-Mary, marginally relevant, or fishing for good RNG in the reload game. I try whenever I can to debuff saves first in some way.
It's only since LoB that I've come to rely on save-based CC effects more, simply going with the odds to hope and grind out an advantage over the average. It'll still mean Hold Person x3 will not work against a single one of 10 enemies under Greater Malison every now and then, but even just taking 1-2 of them out of the fight is usually worth it already when fight durations are very long.
Outside of LoB, I mostly did not bother. I almost exclusively used things that don't allow saves, or have at least a partial effect on a save.
But when it comes to enemies then yeah, Save vs. Breath is almost always the worst.
- some effects have their own considerable penalties.
- you might come under the influence of effects such as malison, doom, called shot.
- specialist mages (which can include creatures such as liches) impose an additional penalty of 2 on spells from their specialist school.
- not all spells with 'save or else' type effects actually offer a save, e.g. maze, imprisonment, nature's beauty.
- getting level drained can absolutely trash your saves. Consider for instance a level 31 sorcerer. Their base save vs spell is 4, but the effect of equipment worn is likely to reduce that considerably - so let's imagine it's actually at -5. At that level you would be likely to save against 99%+ of effects requiring a spell saving throw. Being level drained to level 30 would have no effect at all on the base save vs spell (which is unchanged from level 21 onwards), but the level draining mechanic also totally discounts any bonuses you have from equipment. Your save has therefore jumped from -5 up to 4 and you now have at least a 35% chance of failing against a chaos spell - not good news if you're playing no-reload ...
EDIT: The type of damage as well would seem to need to consideration as well I reckon, as far as the ammunition aspect. The save vs spell on the elemental ammo uses spell I think on most, seems like for something with an exploding or splashing damage, esp. if non magical, BW would be the choice (unless it was poison maybe) to simulate the evading the element a little.