Help with Umberlee Temple (Did I screw up?) - Game-breaking bug?

Volatile

OK, so I'm new to the game. First time player.

I hate knowing too many things before hand, so yeah I avoid reading guides, wikis, spoilers etc which means my party is not optimum, the gear is what I came across etc and all these things are just fine by me.

However, this will sometimes put me in a bad spot, specially in regards to game breaking quests.

My PC is a Paladin (not very smart either as he's constantly trying to make the "right"/"chivalrious" choice even when he doesn't know for sure who is lying to him), and on his first visit to Baldur's Gate (new to me as well, btw), he stumbles into the Bitch Queen's Water something-something, and he is told by the chick at the door that he's not supposed to be in there.

Now, these women are evil, it's an evil temple, and both my character and I are curious to take a look around, so he promptly tells her that he wants nothing to do with her religion, ignores her altogether and decides to pace around, see what's inside. They went hostile. Paladin does what paladin does best: smite evil.

Here's the problem: apparently, the evil temple is needed for a couple of quests. I didn't even spawn their head priestess, I just slaughtered the evil bitches on the spot before any of these quests even started. AND my party is going to die soon from poisoning.

Did I break the game?

Artona

I'm afraid that might be the case. You can summon the antidote, however, using console.

Volatile

Bummer.

I looked it up on the wiki, and apparently killing Tenya wasn't a smart decision, either. The fishermen told my paladin that she was a witch, so he travelled up north, found her standing by the door, talked to her for a bit, cast Detect Evil, she turned red, and sure enough he smacked her to a bloody pulp.

Artona

Sounds like you are roleplaying saint Dirty Harry.
Well, killing Tanya doesn't have much of an impact (as far as I know), but slaughtering Temple of Umbrelee may screw you over. I'd use CluaConsole - I assume you are far enough to make reloading pretty painful?

StummvonBordwehr

Or just...

Kill Lothander and take his antidode. Go to the SS in the NE corner and find Marek on the second floor (kill him for the second antidode).

While your'e at it. Pick pocket the priest at the temple in the western district for a helpfull tome of understanding.<\div>

Artona

Isn't spawning Marek tied to progress in the quest?
Huh. I did not know that.

UnderstandMouseMagic

Well done to the OP playing the game blind.

It doesn't matter in the long run if you mess up, nothing will ever compete with playing BG without following forums/guides/ect. for the first time. If you get through, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that it was "you" who actually played and "beat" the game.

Just remember to have quite a few saves to use and save often.

Volatile

I'll roll back a couple of saves. This is a pretty bad quest, tho. I don't think it's very fair to punish the player with unavoidable death for roleplaying a character the way it's meant to.

On a side note: my next character will definately NOT be a Paladin. From a RPing perspective, the character is too "restricted" - or rather, "restrictive"? - and won't compromise his faith and the pursuit of law and justice. A chaotic neutral Dwarf fighter (maybe dwarven defender) seems like a better choice for making the sensible decisions that -I- would've made if I were under the same circumstances.

PaulaMigrate

Paladins...
Who needs monsters and bandits when you can have these self-righteous zealots? Tinheads.

C:SetGlobal("PartyCured","GLOBAL",1) before your whole party dies.

Papa_Lou

Despite my undying love for the first Baldur's Gate, I'll be the first to admit that I don't like how they did this, either. I almost made the same mistake on my first run as well (which was blind, like yours), but ended up not taking that route, thankfully.

The priestesses in the temple are understandably very easy to set off, and if you're playing a curious character, it may result in the deaths of the works of them. Later down the road, this same curious character is likely going to stumble across Marek and Lothander. Then, that character is up shit's creek without a paddle.

It just seems like such an over the top punishment, to me.

PaulaMigrate

Papa_Lou said:

Despite my undying love for the first Baldur's Gate, I'll be the first to admit that I don't like how they did this, either. I almost made the same mistake on my first run as well (which was blind, like yours), but ended up not taking that route, thankfully.

The priestesses in the temple are understandably very easy to set off, and if you're playing a curious character, it may result in the deaths of the works of them. Later down the road, this same curious character is likely going to stumble across Marek and Lothander. Then, that character is up shit's creek without a paddle.

It just seems like such an over the top punishment, to me.

I mentioned it some weeks ago in another topic about the poisoning quest - the EET version of the game now offers an alternative solution in which your healer with Thalantyr's help and a hunt for rare ingrediences (with the 10 day time challenge) can find an antidote without Marek/Lothander. When I found this, I was happy for having escaped that blackmail quest (and happy for a new plot just the same.)
BTW it took me 9 days to finish the alternative, I was really really scared I wouldn't make it.

Volatile

Oh, so there is an alternative? That might've been helpful to know earlier.

Loldrup

Volatile said:

Oh, so there is an alternative? That might've been helpful to know earlier.

nope.. It's a mod he has installed

UnderstandMouseMagic

I never give them a chance to speak to me. Enter BG, turn right, pop to the next map, say "Hi" to my arrows/spells/swords.

A'holes, spoiling my day throwing poison around. It's just not on.

batoor

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

I never give them a chance to speak to me. Enter BG, turn right, pop to the next map, say "Hi" to my arrows/spells/swords.

A'holes, spoiling my day throwing poison around. It's just not on.

The xp at the end is decent enough though and it's just a haste spell or so to get it over quickly

I have a weakness for forums/guides on certain things, so I think I avoided any pitfalls...But yeah keep like a million saves and you're usually fine anyway.

I actually hate Shandalar...with a passion. I won't say anything to spoil the OP, but he's definitely in my top hated npcs of bg1.

PaulaMigrate

Loldrup said:

Volatile said:

Oh, so there is an alternative? That might've been helpful to know earlier.

nope.. It's a mod he has installed

Yes, it's a mod added alternative and only available in the EET version of the game. Like a number of other alternatives throughout the game.
Gave me double satisfaction to discover it, once from a good new quest and second from not giving in to those *A'holes, spoiling my day throwing poison around.*

ThacoBell

Volatile said:

I'll roll back a couple of saves. This is a pretty bad quest, tho. I don't think it's very fair to punish the player with unavoidable death for roleplaying a character the way it's meant to.

On a side note: my next character will definately NOT be a Paladin. From a RPing perspective, the character is too "restricted" - or rather, "restrictive"? - and won't compromise his faith and the pursuit of law and justice. A chaotic neutral Dwarf fighter (maybe dwarven defender) seems like a better choice for making the sensible decisions that -I- would've made if I were under the same circumstances.

That really depends on how you choose to RP. There is MUCH more to a Paladin than people tend to realize.

PaulaMigrate

ThacoBell said:

Volatile said:

I'll roll back a couple of saves. This is a pretty bad quest, tho. I don't think it's very fair to punish the player with unavoidable death for roleplaying a character the way it's meant to.

On a side note: my next character will definately NOT be a Paladin. From a RPing perspective, the character is too "restricted" - or rather, "restrictive"? - and won't compromise his faith and the pursuit of law and justice. A chaotic neutral Dwarf fighter (maybe dwarven defender) seems like a better choice for making the sensible decisions that -I- would've made if I were under the same circumstances.

That really depends on how you choose to RP. There is MUCH more to a Paladin than people tend to realize.

A few mods add interesting ones to the game
- Isra (Sune)
- Sirene (Illmater)
It's right, not all of them are following Helm or worse. (Just the vanilla ones.)

Volatile

Mmm. Do these mods work with the Enhanced Edition of BG1 and 2?

I'd like to keep my game as lore friendly and close to vanilla as possible, so in the case of mods changing too many things or making me overpowered, I'd rather pass. What mods would you recommend? (I don't cheat / use console etc 'cause really what's the point of playing the game then).

Volatile

Also, I don't mean to stretch this thread much longer, but at the same time I don't think it's necessary for me to start a new thread just for these couple questions:

Why do you call it the Baldur's Gate trilogy when it's just two games?

Is the Dragonspear expansion worth it or detrimental to the original experience?

Papa_Lou

@Volatile , EET (or Enhanced Edition Trilogy) is a mod that combines all the games, starting from BG1 up to ToB (SoD included) into one big game, so that they sort of seemlessly flow into one another. That's what people are referring to when they say EET.

As for the mods mentioned by @PaulaMigrate , I believe they're a part of EET. So, in order to use them, you have to be using EET as well.

ThacoBell

@Volatile Sirene is at least fully compatible with EE 2.0 and later. She is pretty well balanced too and very well written.
Its called a trilogy because the end game of BG2 (Throne of Bhaal) is considered part 3. Trilogy still works as SoD is firmly tied to the BG1 side of the story, and is a worthy addition to the series.

PaulaMigrate

ThacoBell said:

@Volatile Sirene is at least fully compatible with EE 2.0 and later. She is pretty well balanced too and very well written.
Its called a trilogy because the end game of BG2 (Throne of Bhaal) is considered part 3. Trilogy still works as SoD is firmly tied to the BG1 side of the story, and is a worthy addition to the series.

The original game (way back when) was published still on CDs and had three parts. BG1 - BG2 - ToB.
Later the BG1 was extended with TotSC (the Werewolf Island stuff and Durlag's Tower + some) and BG2/ToB became one package. Thus trilogy. The SoD is the latest addition and not considered an extra part but rather the link between BG1 and BG2. There are still some people who wish for a similar link between BG2 and ToB but most (including myself) see that transition as logical and complete.
In this full contents, SoD has its function and place and is a really worthy addition for all who play the full trilogy (be it via EET to make it smoothly or by exporting/importing from one step to another). As such my personal recommendation would always be to play SoD in its foreseen place in the sequence of events, i.e. as an expansion to BG1 and before you start BG2.

Regarding Isra and Sirene:
Both mods have a BG1 and a BG2 part (Sirene also has SoD contents) and they can be played in the separated game as well as in an EET game. The extended poisoning mod alternative comes from another mod that is EET only.
Mods for the EE's in general are compatible with EE 2.0 and later, you always need to be careful and read the readme of the mod if you want to install mods on earlier versions of the game.

Volatile

Thank you so much for all the helpful replies. Awesome community. Much appreciated.

Balquo

Relating to the poison quest.

In BGEE the poison quest can be competed no matter how you delt with the priestesses. You can explain your actions to Lothander and he will still part ways with his half of the antidote.