Least Powerful 4 Man Group
Loldrup
Member Posts: 291
What would be the least poweful group of party members possible in BG1 (charname + 3 NPCs), assuming that any given class may at most be represented twice in the group?
1
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Rasaad
Garrick
Eldoth
Though I could be convinced otherwise. Bards aren't inherently weak, but Garrick and Eldoth have such poor stats that it undermines whatever power bards have. Rasaad is a great character with a great quest, but monks are weak early. He really shines in BG2, though.
As for CHARNAME, let's go with something without thief skills. None of the NPCs is really a tank, either. Maybe a kensai would be a poor fit. They're a great, fun kit, but there wouldn't be a lot of synergy with the NPCs.
Rassad can be used as a kite - but nothing more. His quest is good though.
Garrick makes my list instead of Eldoth - the latter has a special ability.
Charname has to be a beastmaster og druid.
Take the party to the Scs bandit camp without elves bane & boots of avoidance and see how long you last.
I'd probably go with
1. Beastmaster charname
2. Eldoth
You know what? I can't get past here. None of the npcs or classes really come across as WEAK to me. Some are more powergame appropriate but that about it. I suppose you could technically include any of the none multiclass, none thief, none mage characters as "weaker" in terms of relative "power".
Alora/Skie/Safana are weaker than Coran
Khalid/Rasaad are weaker than Kivan/Minsc
Branwen/Faldorn are weaker than Yeslick/Jaheira
Xan/Xzar are weaker than Baeloth/Edwin
I'll pick Skie, Safana, Rasaad, and Khalid for all-around weakest party. (Eldoth gets an honorable mention here but I think bards are an underrated class due to their high caster level, which helps Eldoth's casting power even though his stats are poor.)
If you gonna roll a 19 dex bow wielding elf as a ranger, I would choose an acher instead (he/she could even wear the ankheg armor). If youre gonna roll a ranger, who is gonna scout, I would choose a stalker (He could one shot you out off a few encounters and wear plate - not at the same time off course).
The HP bonus is nice, but its only 6 HP, and if youre an elf, it is negated at level 6.
My primary reason for choosing the beast master to fit into my group of weak characters, is the lack of heavy armor. No one can serve as a tank, and prebuffing will become essential.
Off course most players will meta play and sleep spam their way out, until they reach level 8-9. Quite a few players in this forum could propably pull it off (including the above - off course without using potions). But most players couldnt - my self included. And I have played for 15 years... I just put the brawling hands and the "belt" on Kagain and rely on AI (I am playing on a iPhone 6s now so micromanaging is tiresome..)
Rasaad, as already mentioned, tends to be squishy early on, but just equip him with darts are you're golden.
Mages are squishy so one of those could round out the worst NPC (and I am leaning towards Dyna for this selection), but can crowd control extremely well.
So worst 4 man party:
75 stat Wizard Slayer
Rasaad
Skie
Dyna
I now think Alora is the best thief in the game and I thought Skie to be darn solid. I don't think there is a bad NPC in BG1 or BG2, though Eldoth and Cernd are probably closest. I also find them to be completely unlikable so that may tint my judgement. I know they all have strengths and weaknesses; there is no way I am sending in Minsc to tank against ... certain creatures in the Underdark. I found Faldorn to be great with ankheg plate, darts, and a spear. Now, if you don't have enough ankheg plate to go around, she sn't as versatile. But no one else really uses spears, so there's no competition there.
And as always, it depends on your CHARNAME.
I'd say that even when making the 'weakest' in the game, it is important not to make it unplayable. Because what is the fun of that?
So I'd say...
Charname: Swashbuckler (no backstabbing...can sorta kinda fight on the front lines though)
Imoen (Thief...she's a great thief, but with this party setup she is redundant)
Alora (Thief...she's a great thief, but with this party setup she is redundant)
Tiax (Cleric/Thief...needed for healing. But only has Dex16 and Wis13)
Everyone can stealth. So you can avoid some hard fights. You can have a backstab surprise round, but everyone except maybe Charname has Str8-9, and Charname can't backstab. You can set traps, but that will take designing Imoen and Charname to set traps from Lvl1. Which is doable, but traps run out pretty fast at these low levels. You can try and play ranged, but nobody hits that hard and has pretty back Thaco.
What will probably end up happening is that Charname will be your tank/target. Imoen will have the army scythe, Alora will have the +2 shortbow, Tiax will have a sling. Charname will run around like a chicken with his head cut off while the other 3 ineffectually shoot missiles in the general direction of the enemy. And against enemies like doom guards, you will all run away and hide. Something which Charname and Imoen might not be very good at it they focus on setting traps.
All in all, it might be a fun run, but a very difficult one.
Make a necromancer (or preferably an evil cleric) charname. Duplicate the ring that makes characters look like zombies. Have 5 blackguards join him. Give each the ring. You now have 5 zombies following around your necromancer, all of whom are immune to fear/level drain, and who can poison/debuff nearby enemies.
With the evil cleric focus on spells which raise the dead, and use turn undead to take over nearby undead. Go on a killing spree through the sword coast.
Whenever you come across a 'real' NPC, recruit them and kill them. Resurrect them and give them one of the zombie rings. Leave them in the depopulated town as a sign for everyone else.
Don't stop killing until you are the new lord of murder.
I haven't tried this in the EEs to see if all this holds; maybe I should
This pretty much sums up all the "bad" NPCs in the game. Most of the time these "bad" NPCs end up being the strongest.
However, if we want to avoid duplicating a monk PC, how do shadow dancers work out? They get some interesting special abilities for sure, but regular scouting is nerfed badly. Do they get to the point those abilities start to pay off? If they do, dual-class to cleric just before that point
Other than Rasaad, I have always struggled with Xan as an NPC due to his bad Con and low hit points. I know other rave about him as one of the better NPCs, but I have never managed to make him work for me. One potential up-side for Xan is that he can use wands, which might mitigate against all bards and mages.
Khalid is often a poor character for me due to his regular morale failures, but can still become quite the combat beast with fighter specializations and kit.
Alora was often received badly as a late-game thief whose level 6 incarnation had underwhelming HP, and one item-slot locked out with a broken item. In the EE though, that item is fixed and she becomes on of the best thieves in the game.
Looking for a bad synergy to create a weak party, I would probably go for 4 bad fighter-types, so that you cannot wand your way out of trouble, and locks/traps remain a problem all game long, and IIRC, breaking locks on chests has a chance of destroying some of the contents? Note, no fighters than can dual-class either!
So:
PC: Halfling kensai specializing in flails
Rasaad
Khalid
Kagain
The last pick will be most controversial due to regeneration being useful, but I think, on balance, his remaining stats make him the least useful fighter. We are looking for a party lacking synergy, where they will all be competing for the same items.
Safana,
Skie,
Rassad
= absolutely no magic & absolutely no tanking ability.
I'm still not sure about Charname.
Would you also lose grandmastery opportunities? I've never dualed INTO fighter before so I don't know...
That said, waiting for lvl 9 so you can get a lvl5 spell slot for ironskin and then dualing into a fighter would make for a pretty darn good Charname. Str19 with tome, grandmastery with dual wielding scimitars, heavy armor use from being a fighter...be a totemic druid because shapeshifting is horrible. You basically trade some HP for the ability to cast stoneskin. That's a pretty good trade. Then load up on defensive harmony for your lvl4 slots, summon insects for lvl3, your own innefective tears for lvl2, and armor of faith for lvl1. That would be horrible until you get Use Any Item.
Dual at lvl9, for 9% magic resistance, and spell failure on hit.
Then as a thief get use any item...and you just become awesome. See through illusions as a thief. Backstab the enemy mage. Go to town on them with as many attacks per round as you can manage. With 9% MR, 5% from Lum, 10% from Hell, 10% amulet, 10% from ring of gaxx...and you have 44% magic resistance. Throw on the Purifier as you can use any item, and you now have 74% magic resistance.
In effect, this combo makes for an actual wizard slayer, without any downsides at all.
I tend to dual my Avengers early in BG2, immediately after the XP curve tails off around level 11/12, which is very early in the game. I don't have access to SoD to know how that impacts the level math though - the magic numbers are 200k for level 11, and 300k for level 12.
and even then, there is another problem with the "least powerful" joinable NPCs, and that is, most of them are junk to be honest, but it only takes an item or 2 to make them shine ( items like gauntlets of dexterity, gauntlets of ogre power, that one belt you get from rasaad's quest, a defender scimitar, and so on )
so by "least powerful" party, a definition needs to be added, because a party could be "least powerful" power game wise, but at the same time be a complete destroyer when it comes to crowd control, because a held enemy is a dead enemy regardless of how weak your team is
now with all this being said, I be a silly power gamer, every NPC that joins my team I do everything it takes to power game them to the top, making them as useful as possible as their skills and abilities will go
so based on that, here is my opinion and reasoning on what the "least powerful" group would be based on pure destructive power gamer team:
#1 Main character
basing on the fact of no class duplication with joinable NPCs and not deliberately penalizing yourself just to be as weak as possible, im going to go with the class I think is the least power game like: the shapeshifter, now this may sound ironic, because at level 1 the shapeshifter is awesome, big AC doing decent damage and all that jazz, but that is where the awesomeness stops, that form in BG1 NEVER gets better EVER and starts lagging behind warrior classes wearing platemails and wielding +2/+3 weapons, unfortunately one drawback of the shapeshifter ( and by drawback i mean the thing actually makes this class good) is their amazing spell casting abilities, although those don't really come in until they start getting level 4 spells for the woodland beings and then insect plagues for level 5, in my opinion every other class in the game has something better than shapeshifter no matter what you do/choose
#2 Rasaad
his biggest weakness: just being in BG1 period, as said before, monks just don't shine in BG1 they are super squishy their damage output is not great, and immune to haste at level 5 really REALLY hurts them, even in SoA monks don't really start to shine until about level 15 is where you start seeing them catch up to your warriors without being turned into so much mush, plus rasaad's ability scores for a monk to be honest are terrible, a 16 dex, is just unacceptingly low, especially for squishy monk characters, you need to crank as much DEX as possible, and 14 CON, SAY WHAT?!?!? again squishy as whip cream, and want 16 CON bare minimum to even stand a chance in melee battle, with garbage stats like that you don't want to get this guy anywhere near a baddie with a melee weapon, now it's been said that he is great for kiting with a sling or darts, but based on his class kit he is "supposed" to be built for melee which he just straight up does poorly at, and when enemies critical hit him ( especially on insane difficulty ) he is going to be turned into bacon bits yum, sorry raserd but when it comes to melee you are by far the worst at in BG1 compared to all the other melee chum/chumettes
#3 Garrick
now a lot of people like to defend this guy because of his "great" versatility, but to be honest, anything this guy can do, someone else can do it as well, and sometimes just straight up better, first of all, his stats are also complete garbage with DEX being okay, his strength is crap, so no good in melee, his CON is 9 so he has the durability of tissue paper in a rain storm, his INT is 13 which means he is not going to be able to know many mage spells and have a very difficult time learning them ( 55% chance to succeed I believe? ) now of coarse you can just use potions to help the INT out, but all other wizards come in with a nifty 17 with no nonsense required, they can also use wands, and they get WAY more spells per day than Garrick ever will, and even with Garrick's fast leveling up for better spell durations and the such, at max level he is only 1 level higher than a wizard is anyway, and infact for him to get to level 10 you have to hit the level cap for him to surpass your wizard before he finally gets his first and only level 4 spell as apposed to your wizard(s) which have multiple level 4 spells and actually get a level 5 spell or 2, so sorry to say it, but when it comes to arcane power, wizards still do it better than bards, now the reason why I choose Garrick over eldoth is because at least eldoth gets a special ability and those are poison arrows, and poison arrows are absolute spell caster killers, and Garrick's special ability is that he quotes lines from movies, so when it comes to dishing out destruction movie quotes just don't quite do it
#4 Tiax
now to be honest, this was a very hard choice for a number 4 slot, because everyone else beside #2 and #3 are not to shabby ( NPC wise ) when it comes to doing what they need to do, and to be honest eldoth may be worse than tiax, but again even Garrick worse a hard choice because he can still use a longbow and have 3 attacks per round with haste, and eldoth is better than Garrick and I didn't want class duplication, so for the #4 spot, I choose someone who just doesn't do their class justice and it kind of weak over all and tiax fits this nicely. First, lets talk about stats, 9 STR, complete garbage, backstabs are going to do hilariously low damage from low str AND most important cleric weapons that require 9 STR or less, that's right, no morning star, no flails, that low STR is going to hurt in melee, but he can always use 1 APR sling, next, that DEX to be honest isn't all that great, if he was a single class thief it would be okay, but since he is multi classed that lower DEX is going to hurt more only being able to be a level 8 thief instead of being a level 10 thief like all the other thieves, next important one; wisdom, and with his laughably low WIS of 13, that gives you 1 extra level 1 spell, again this really hurt when you are a multi class cleric where you will be getting less spells per day as apposed to a full classed cleric, and when it comes to clerics, all the other clerics in the game ( minus quayle ) have 16 WIS at least and 2 of them are full classed, so that is WAY more spell casting potential for them as apposed to tiax, so his cleric skills and thief skills are both hurting from the fact that he is a multi class, has relatively low main stats for his class abilities and being evil doesn't help so you cant have the killer 20 REP, although the one high light of his character is that he can summon a ghast once per day, which is pretty neat, and kind of good, but agaist higher level enemies it will get squashed just like tiax's dreams of becoming the greatest there every was
so to conclude, power game wise I think these are the weakest, every other joinable NPC in the game can power game better based on what their class has to offer
but even with this all being said, despite the fact that this team cant dish out some serious damage with just plain and simple gear, it doesn't mean that Garrick cant use web spells and tiax using hold persons/ summon his ghast/ skellies to make mince meat out of their held enemies, because as I said before, a held enemy is a dead enemy regardless of how "powerful" or "weak" you may be
Having said that I wouldn't really argue with the choice of Rasaad - more just making the point that every character class has strengths as well as weaknesses and can be successful if you play to those strengths.
so to be honest, anything that Garrick can do arcane wise, a mage can just straight up do better in every way, especially if you use Garrick as a ranged character, AC is almost irrelevant for ranged characters, the only time really when it becomes a problem is when you are ambushed by the 10 bandits when transversing areas, but even dynaheir survives this no sweat with a robe of the arch magi boots of avoidance and a +1 protection item
Garrick may be a cool niche character, but remember my "weakest team" was based on the power gaming aspect, and Garrick just does not really power game that well
and again everyone's opinion is going to be different on what they consider what the "weakest team" is everyone can debate until the sun explodes and there will never be a full definitive census agreed upon who is truly the weakest 3 joinable NPCs because there will always be a way to defend a character's faults
And if we are talking about a 4 man party as the OP stated, sure everyone can do something Garrick does better, however no one can do everything that Garrick does (save Eldoth). Jack of all trades, master of none.
In a four man party, I'd personally be utilizing a bard more than a wizard as it can fill almost every secondary role in the party.