Fighter/Druid vs. Druid?

Archey

I normally play druids as my main character. I hear Fighter/Druids as very good in IWD, how much worse are just Druids? Also to be good, do Fighter/Druids just use weapons, or do they shapeshift?

Elendar

I personally prefer Fighter/Druids. That way they make good upfront fighters. Plain druids cannot wear metal armor and don't have a fighter's THACO. I typically don't bother with shapeshifting much with them. If you're wanting more of a caster druid than a front line druid, then I would go with the single class.

Wesboi

If your plan on using the druid for further games go fighter/druid due to how the level cap works. If just one play through go avenger druid.

Permidion_Stark

I prefer a Fighter/Druid for IWD because the game is so combat-heavy I find the extra hit points and better AC useful. There are times when enemies seem to come at you from every direction so it can be hard to keep characters with low hit points and a high armour class alive.

You can still shapeshift as a Fighter/Druid but it's not something I tend to do. I generally used them as a second rank fighter who can also cast (pretty much the same way I use a Cleric).

Redrake

Fighter/Druid is one of the most useful classes in IWD1. Single class Druid might gets you access to some nice spells faster, but overall, in combat is rather useless.

However, is best to approach it as a multi-class. Dual-class is in fact better as a character, but the requirements for Dual-classing are insane. You need to have at least 17 in Str, Wis and Cha. Let alone the fact that not having either at least 15 in either Dex or Con is going to make your fighter would be druid a wimp. One should not attempt it unless you are prepare to actively search for lots of re-rolls.

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Redrake

Call lightning is unfortunately mostly useless in IWD1. Basically 90% of the game takes place in-doors and the places where there are out-doors are quite easy to get by. The only possible exception might be Burial Island and maybe Gloomfrost.

Thrasymachus

Redrake said:

Fighter/Druid is one of the most useful classes in IWD1. Single class Druid might gets you access to some nice spells faster, but overall, in combat is rather useless.

However, is best to approach it as a multi-class. Dual-class is in fact better as a character, but the requirements for Dual-classing are insane. You need to have at least 17 in Str, Wis and Cha. Let alone the fact that not having either at least 15 in either Dex or Con is going to make your fighter would be druid a wimp. One should not attempt it unless you are prepare to actively search for lots of re-rolls.

You "only" need a 15 Str to dual class out of a fighter.

WarChiefZeke

I typically run a Dual Classed Fighter/Druid as my main Character, but in IWD the optimal use of a druid is single classed in my opinion. You get lots of damaging spells as a Druid and it's nice to get access to them, as well as the summons, as quick as possible. Clerics, on the other hand, are seemingly always best with fighter levels because the attacks per round enhance greatly their abilities.

Redrake

WarChiefZeke said:

I typically run a Dual Classed Fighter/Druid as my main Character, but in IWD the optimal use of a druid is single classed in my opinion. You get lots of damaging spells as a Druid and it's nice to get access to them, as well as the summons, as quick as possible. Clerics, on the other hand, are seemingly always best with fighter levels because the attacks per round enhance greatly their abilities.

True, except that when they run out of spells they are weak as kitten in melee. Without fighter levels they are unable to use armor higher than studded leather and they cannot use shields (except bucklers and those are horrible).

ineth

I too recommend making sure that all party members can fight decently well with a weapon (even if it's just a sling or shortbow), and making as many of them as possible able to fight and tank in melee.

You'll have to cut through so many enemies per map that you can't rely exclusively on per-day abilities like spells (well you could, by backtracking to a safe spot to rest after every battle, but it won't be fun). You'll need your party to supply a certain amount of damage to enemies "non-stop", and that means fighting with weapons (with some low-level spells thrown in). Good spells should be saved for the toughest situations of each day.

Some battles are also in tight spaces where melee is difficult to avoid for all party members.
Babysitting one or two squishy party members (like a sorcerer) will be fine, but as many as possible should be "tough".

Oh, and with all the cool armors that can be found in the game, you'll be disappointed if you have no or very few party members who can wear them...

For these reasons, Fighter/Druids have IMO much more overall utility in this particular game than single-class Druids. And they don't lag that far behind in spell levels. It's not half the levels, as one might naively think, but more like just 1 level behind (due to the exponential level progression).

RAM021

Ranger/Cleric > Fighter/Druid > Druid

Armanz92

Actually, Fighter/Druid beats Ranger/Cleric because of Iron Skins. That's the sole reason why Fighter/Cleric is the only class that can fight the Dwarven Defender for it's position as the single best tank in the game.

ThacoBell

Ranger/Cleric gets every druid spell in addition to the cleric spellbook. Mechanically, ranger/cleric is superior in every way. The "nerf" doesn't count, beamdog intentionally left that easily reversible.

*edit* @Armanz92

Armanz92

Ranger/Cleric gets the first four levels of Druid spells only, which means no Iron Skins. It's still an insanely good class because of the way it can buff itself up but imho the sheer power of a Fighter/Druid with Iron Skins beats that (obviously only after the character reaches that point).

On second thought, I just realized that Ranger/Cleric gets Enthropy Shield, which, while coming on a level after Iron Skins for Druid classes kind of remedies everything I've talked about right now. I will play myself out, shamefully.

Edit: Aaaand even that was wrong. My lack of playing the add-ons shows my missing knowledge of higher levels. My bad on this, wasn't aware of the fact they get access to the higher level spells.

RAM021

Armanz92 said:

Actually, Fighter/Druid beats Ranger/Cleric because of Iron Skins. That's the sole reason why Fighter/Cleric is the only class that can fight the Dwarven Defender for it's position as the single best tank in the game.

Armanz92 said:

Ranger/Cleric gets the first four levels of Druid spells only, which means no Iron Skins. It's still an insanely good class because of the way it can buff itself up but imho the sheer power of a Fighter/Druid with Iron Skins beats that (obviously only after the character reaches that point).

IWD R/C does in fact get Iron Skins.

Arctodus

ThacoBell said:

Ranger/Cleric gets every druid spell in addition to the cleric spellbook. Mechanically, ranger/cleric is superior in every way. The "nerf" doesn't count, beamdog intentionally left that easily reversible.

*edit* @Armanz92

It might not "count", but the nerf makes a whole lot of sense : rangers can't cast beyond level 3 druid spells. Why would they when they're multiclassed to clerics ?

Raduziel

@Arctodus

The whole "can't cast beyond level 3 druid spells" is because Rangers get minor access to the Plant and Animal spheres.

But every deity that accepts Ranger/Cleric in their priesthood gives major access to those same spheres.

Every Cleric needs a Deity, so it is easy to assume that a Ranger/Cleric would be under the blessing of one deity related to his/her duties - by doing so it gains major access to the early mentioned spheres.

That's the logic behind the R/C Spellbook in BG.

Arctodus

The only problem with what you're saying is that, even in a sphere system, which is not how divine spells are implemented in the BG games, the ranger/cleric wouldn't have access to every cleric and druid spells that are possible to cast : he would, as any other type of clerics, be restricted to certain spheres, thus could not cast all spells. However, I agree that access to high level spells in their respective spheres makes sense for a r/c. Still, the way they were originally implemented, r/c were actually cheating by having access to every goddamn divine spells, which is the conceptual problem, in my opinion. Before the fix, they were basically fast levelling (compared to other triple class) fighter/cleric/druid wrapped into one, without any sort of a drawback.

RAM021

Arctodus said:

Still, the way they were originally implemented, r/c were actually cheating by having access to every goddamn divine spells, which is the conceptual problem, in my opinion. Before the fix, they were basically fast levelling (compared to other triple class) fighter/cleric/druid wrapped into one, without any sort of a drawback.

Cheating does not mean what you seem to think it means and R/C do have drawbacks.

Regardless, it is irrelevant since in ICEWIND DALE Rangers (& Paladins) get high level spell access already.

Firecrow

RAM021 said:

Regardless, it is irrelevant since in ICEWIND DALE Rangers (& Paladins) get high level spell access already.

Without editing "game options" Rangers and Paladins has only six level of spells, on their 29 levels. So even 30/30 ranger/cleric can't cast Stalker and Creeping Doom, the best summoning spells in IWD:EE.

Firecrow

RAM021 said:

Ranger/Cleric > Fighter/Druid > Druid

Fighter/Druid has some interesting tactical abilites, which R/C hasn't even with full druid/cleric spell list. On low level dualclassed F/D can be best tank. Boring Beetle has good AC in despite of very bad dex. With dex bonus to AC from Potion of Dexterity F/D in BB form has better AC (ecpecially with shield in left "hand") than any other classes in actual armor and gear for that phase of game. Plus BB has good phisical resistances. On highlevels F/D becomes true champion of phisical resistances, even Dwarf Defender can't compete with him. In elemental forms Druid has unique ability for 100+ phisical res. Water Elemental form + Bone Marrow Belt + Great Shield + Reinforced Leather (or Studded Leather of Resistance in some cases) + Clasp from Bron's Clock make F/D immune for all phisical damage on map, as long as you need. This is much more powerful than IS, SS, Mantles, AI. And becouse 100+ resistance F/D can easelly kill almost all enemy casters too. Fighter type mobs heal him while he drowns casters first. Timeless Body and Poison Immunity can be very handle too. Also Earth Elemental and BB something like WE-light. With only Bone Marrow Belt this forms has immunity to slashing damage. Some places has mobs with only this type of melee damage.

Firecrow

Redrake said:

Call lightning is unfortunately mostly useless in IWD1. Basically 90% of the game takes place in-doors and the places where there are out-doors are quite easy to get by. The only possible exception might be Burial Island and maybe Gloomfrost.

According to this logic i can say that Horrid Wilting mostly useless spell becouse more than half of mobs in IWD1 are undeads.) You can pull out mobs from underground in IWD:EE, running out into the open sky. Orcish Cave, Crypts, Tomb and Lysan's Retreat in Vale of Shadows, Temple of the Forgotten God can be easily cleared with Entangle, Call Lighting and some summons as a decoy. Druid can clear all Prologue on HoF solo without any problem even with level 1 start. It's easier to do than any other class. In particular becouse CL. Also you can use CL not only in Gloomfrost and Burial Isle, but in Chapter 5, in first half of TotL, against Hosttower assassins, in Barbarian Camp, against scrags, trolls and Ice Golem Sentries in Sea of Moving Ice.

Opus131

Figther/druids are superior through out the base game, lagging behind a pure druid by one or two levels at most. Then once you get to that huge XP hump things go down fast. If you play with normal XP gain, you'll never get to level 7th spells as a figther/druid, and you won't gain the water elemental shape as well (for whatever that's worth).

This is how normal XP progression looks like BTW:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/69558/xp-per-chapter-solo-c-f

According to this, a figther/druid will end the base game as druid level 12, and the expansion as druid level 13, where as a pure druid will go all the way up to 18.

Mind you, this is not a question of power, more like an issue of whether you want to experience everything a class has to offer or not. Not like you really need those 7th level spells, but if you like to play with all the tools a class has at it's disposal, it is something to consider.

Of course, an option is to play on insane with double XP.

SomeSort

Opus131 said:

Figther/druids are superior through out the base game, lagging behind a pure druid by one or two levels at most. Then once you get to that huge XP hump things go down fast. If you play with normal XP gain, you'll never get to level 7th spells as a figther/druid, and you won't gain the water elemental shape as well (for whatever that's worth).

It's worth quite a bit if you want to take advantage of it. Water Elemental shapeshift confers some of the best physical resistances in the game, to the point where it's trivially easy to just become immune to physical damage.

Fyl

Kensai/Druid should benefit immensely from Barksin, although the bonuses are probably not big enough to change things... then again, the max damage thing could probably be combined with something

That said, a Half-orc Shaman is probably still the best "druid"

What weapon choices would one grandmaster for a fighter>>druid multiclass? Spears and daggers? Quarterstaves? Slings?

TomReneth

I wrote a Fighter/Druid guide (Old School Bard) for BG EE, most of which is relevant here (apart from the spell differences).

Cliff notes on Druid v Fighter/Druid:
The FD is almost universally better in every respect.

Even if you dual with less then ideal stats the combo will carry you with smart play.

The "ideal" times to dual are lvl 3, 7, 9 or 13. I recommend 7: Short downtime (60k exp) and almost as strong as a martial class (3 v -1 THAC0, base 2,5 APR for both).

If you want to be a caster Druid, taking 3 lvls as a Fighter first makes you better, because you get so much better armor selection and grandmastery with weapons.


This is, of course, just for optimization. Regular Druid should be fine if that is what you want. Avenger or Totemic are nice for that.