It's too bad we don't have a Ravenloft Infinity Engine game

themazingness

October is making me want some Ravenloft, but the Dreamforge games aren't holding my attention and the NWN persistent world got on my nerves. I wish we had an Infinity Engine Ravenloft!

Raduziel

You and me both, my friend. You and me both...

Southpaw

Are you trying to give someone ideas? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

chimeric

Each to his own. Ravenloft could be nice, but a KRYNN game is what *I* would carve pumpkins for.

themazingness

chimeric said:

Each to his own. Ravenloft could be nice, but a KRYNN game is what *I* would carve pumpkins for.

Oh, I'd love that too. And Eberron, and Dark Sun, and al-Qadim, etc. Though I question if WotC would allow new games from scratch for unsupported settings like Dragonlance and Dark Sun.

OrlonKronsteen

themazingness said:

October is making me want some Ravenloft, but the Dreamforge games aren't holding my attention and the NWN persistent world got on my nerves. I wish we had an Infinity Engine Ravenloft!

1000 times this.

themazingness

And technically DDO has Strahd content on the way. But I got tired of the murder-hobo on a hamster wheel gameplay a while ago.

Ammar

At least Dragonlance had a gold box series.

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Ammar

subtledoctor said:

Yeah but Dragonlance got really weird during/after Dragons of Summer Flame. (Or whatever that bookending 4th book in the original trilogy was called.)

I'd just as soon let that setting fade away.

Yes, I ignore everything starting with Summer Flame. Fortunately, the gold box games are pre Summer Flame. In fact, they are in a different post war of the lace continuity given that the Party takes put Lord Soth in DKoK.

Fardragon

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now,

Ravenloft is superior, but would need really good writing to be properly disturbing and avoid being generic with hammer-themed monsters like the earlier Ravenloft games, or simply de-powering the protagonist relative to the monsters like the survival-horror genre.

I woukd rather see the Dark Sun setting revived. It's different enough to the standard setting to be interesting, whilst not being so different as to not feel like D&D, and environmental-apocalypse and dystopias are currently popular themes.

But more than that I would like to see an original IP space opera infinity-engine type game.

Kamigoroshi

Me still wants [insert random campaign setting] in Gamebryo engine a' la Morrowind. Would be a welcome change from the typical "you must gather your party before venturing forth" trope anyway.

No, seriously. IE and Unity had its moments, but having each and every single upcoming D&D(or D&D look-alike) game use the same look-alike-engines until the end of the world would be a sure way for me to loose all interest in the franchises.
But then again, I could had as well posted this in the unpopular opinion thread for being in the minority here.

Fardragon

I think the opposite. There are plenty of 3d single protagonist/small party games around laden with D&D tropes. It the actual PnP simulators that are few and far between.

Ammar

Fardragon said:

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now,

Ravenloft is superior, but would need really good writing to be properly disturbing and avoid being generic with hammer-themed monsters like the earlier Ravenloft games, or simply de-powering the protagonist relative to the monsters like the survival-horror genre.

I woukd rather see the Dark Sun setting revived. It's different enough to the standard setting to be interesting, whilst not being so different as to not feel like D&D, and environmental-apocalypse and dystopias are currently popular themes.

But more than that I would like to see an original IP space opera infinity-engine type game.

True, but not sure if Ravenloft and Dark Sun would attract customers, either. For horror I would like to have Lovecraftian RPG and I don't need any more dystopian settings.

themazingness

Kamigoroshi said:

Me still wants [insert random campaign setting] in Gamebryo engine a' la Morrowind. Would be a welcome change from the typical "you must gather your party before venturing forth" trope anyway.

No, seriously. IE and Unity had its moments, but having each and every single upcoming D&D(or D&D look-alike) game use the same look-alike-engines until the end of the world would be a sure way for me to loose all interest in the franchises.
But then again, I could had as well posted this in the unpopular opinion thread for being in the minority here.

I'm cool with other engines. But until another company does a modern D&D game well, I'm fine with IE games. The D&D video games since the NWN series have been disappointing. SoD filled that void a bit, and I want more.

ThacoBell

@Ammar "True, but not sure if Ravenloft and Dark Sun would attract customers, either. For horror I would like to have Lovecraftian RPG and I don't need any more dystopian settings. "

Yes this. All the this.

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Ammar

subtledoctor said:

But Ravenloft can provide precisely that. It's gothic horror mixed with Lovecraft, within the D&D game system.

Ravenloft is not really Lovecraftian (though it has some influences). The dark lords are typically former human beings, who comitted human sins and are being punished in a way a human would perceive as ironic. This makes the enemies very relatable. You could make an argument about the Dark Powers themself.

But the main thing that is missing is the normal world. Lovecraft (as I see it) is more about ancient, maddening things buried deep within the Earth, while humanity is blissfully unaware of how fragile their civilization is. In Ravenloft the darkness is already on the surface.

Fardragon

Ammar said:

Fardragon said:

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now,

Ravenloft is superior, but would need really good writing to be properly disturbing and avoid being generic with hammer-themed monsters like the earlier Ravenloft games, or simply de-powering the protagonist relative to the monsters like the survival-horror genre.

I woukd rather see the Dark Sun setting revived. It's different enough to the standard setting to be interesting, whilst not being so different as to not feel like D&D, and environmental-apocalypse and dystopias are currently popular themes.

But more than that I would like to see an original IP space opera infinity-engine type game.

True, but not sure if Ravenloft and Dark Sun would attract customers, either. For horror I would like to have Lovecraftian RPG and I don't need any more dystopian settings.

I think the Ravenloft name still carries a little cache, but yes, Dark Sun would be pretty much starting from scratch.

But wouldn't a lovecraftian RPG make the whole universe distopian?

The problem with CofC rpg, is it's a lot less combat-focused than D&D, giving it a narrower appeal. It's all very well being sophisticated, but sooner or later I want to break out and kick some slimy tenticled butt!

But Lovecraft's stuff is basically science fiction. No reason not to combine it with space opera.

themazingness

Fardragon said:

Ammar said:

Fardragon said:

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now,

Ravenloft is superior, but would need really good writing to be properly disturbing and avoid being generic with hammer-themed monsters like the earlier Ravenloft games, or simply de-powering the protagonist relative to the monsters like the survival-horror genre.

I woukd rather see the Dark Sun setting revived. It's different enough to the standard setting to be interesting, whilst not being so different as to not feel like D&D, and environmental-apocalypse and dystopias are currently popular themes.

But more than that I would like to see an original IP space opera infinity-engine type game.

True, but not sure if Ravenloft and Dark Sun would attract customers, either. For horror I would like to have Lovecraftian RPG and I don't need any more dystopian settings.

I think the Ravenloft name still carries a little cache, but yes, Dark Sun would be pretty much starting from scratch.

But wouldn't a lovecraftian RPG make the whole universe distopian?

The problem with CofC rpg, is it's a lot less combat-focused than D&D, giving it a narrower appeal. It's all very well being sophisticated, but sooner or later I want to break out and kick some slimy tenticled butt!

But Lovecraft's stuff is basically science fiction. No reason not to combine it with space opera.

This is why I'd prefer Ravenloft. I get bored of dystopian sci-fi if it goes longer than a movie. And if I'm playing a cRPG I want combat. I like story-driven RPGs, but less combat than what PS:T has makes me bored fast. Something less combat oriented makes more sense in the PnP realm to me. I just don't see the Lovecraft universe holding my attention.

Ammar

Fardragon said:

Ammar said:

Fardragon said:

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now,

Ravenloft is superior, but would need really good writing to be properly disturbing and avoid being generic with hammer-themed monsters like the earlier Ravenloft games, or simply de-powering the protagonist relative to the monsters like the survival-horror genre.

I woukd rather see the Dark Sun setting revived. It's different enough to the standard setting to be interesting, whilst not being so different as to not feel like D&D, and environmental-apocalypse and dystopias are currently popular themes.

But more than that I would like to see an original IP space opera infinity-engine type game.

True, but not sure if Ravenloft and Dark Sun would attract customers, either. For horror I would like to have Lovecraftian RPG and I don't need any more dystopian settings.

I think the Ravenloft name still carries a little cache, but yes, Dark Sun would be pretty much starting from scratch.

But wouldn't a lovecraftian RPG make the whole universe distopian?

The problem with CofC rpg, is it's a lot less combat-focused than D&D, giving it a narrower appeal. It's all very well being sophisticated, but sooner or later I want to break out and kick some slimy tenticled butt!

But Lovecraft's stuff is basically science fiction. No reason not to combine it with space opera.

I would think a Lovecraftian RPG would probably be less dytopian than either Ravenloft or Dark Sun.

Sure, the Universe/Cosmos as a whole might be a depressing place, but since the horror is mostly forgotten/buried deep, you could still have a pretty normal society on top of it.

Usually, the goal would be to preserve the world as we know it... at least for some more time (some time on a cosmic scale could be pretty long).

And while Lovecraft might have some Sci-Fi elements, it is not the same, as humanity is still humanity as we know it, without any strange tech. Besides, there are many parts of the Mythos which are not Sci-Fi related.

A King in Yellow RPG starting in the normal world with the finale being in Carcosa would be an interesting option (even if King in Yellow is not strictly Lovecraft, just became part of the Mythos), and would not need to have any Sci-Fi elements.

Fardragon

"Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes..."

-Not H. P. Lovecraft

Fardragon

I'm my experience pretty much all of the Lovecraft inspired computer games are very grimdark, much more so than the Dark Sun games, which aren't really much more dystopian than Conan.

The Pathfinder Dark Suns campaign path is directly based on The King in Yellow, adapting that could combine Lovecraft with more combat oriented gameplay.

ThacoBell

Lovecraft is much closer to fantasy than science fiction.

chimeric

Fardragon said:

I don't see the point in a Krynn setting. It is just another generic fantasyland like FR, but with added tweeness. When the novels where popular the name would help sales, but no-one apart from hard-core fans reads them now.

Dragonlance was original. The three orders of wizards and the three moons were not stolen from anywhere, Paladine and Takhisis and Gilean (Astinus) were distinct and likeable characters. Fizban was a sort of senile Gandalf, it's true. But the Dragon Orbs? The Solamnic Knights? Lord Soth? The High Clerist Tower and the sunken Istar in the maelstrom? And the Ice Wall? The nightmare in Silvanesti? Kender? Mt. Nevermind and the gnomes? Gully dwarves?? I won't even take up Raistlin - probably the single most convincing character in popular fantasy. His relationship with Caramon crossed the line into real literature. But originality is not even what first comes to mind when I recall Dragonlance. It's nobility and harmony. That setting is solid - not a collection of 30s Bela Lugosi spooks like Ravenloft.





And if I see one more game about Things With Tentacles, I'm going to vomit. Developers haven't even read Lovecraft, it seems, just heard of him. Now lord Dunsany, perhaps... But who can make a game off real books, anyway? It's easily rippable tropes that they are after.

themazingness

@chimeric Lol, true. But what I like about Ravenloft is it brings back the politics to what has become a genre that has forgotten all that. And that is why I'd like to see it done in the IE. The Baldur's Gate series incorporates the regional politics into the story nicely. I'd like to see Ravenloft given the same treatment so the focus is not on the cheese that plagues Gothic horror.

I definitely agree Dragonlance would be awesome though. But given it is an unsupported IP at this time, Ravenloft is a better candidate for a new game.

Fardragon

Well, you are obvioulsy a fan, but IMO kender, gully dwarves, etc belong in Noddy stories, not allegedly "adult" fantasy.

killerrabbit

chimeric said:

Dragonlance was original. . .

True. The novels were good but the setting was meh. Played the first module they put out. Steel being rarer than gold . . . paladins are hated? Eh, I'll leave it.

DreadKhan

Fardragon said:

Well, you are obvioulsy a fan, but IMO kender, gully dwarves, etc belong in Noddy stories, not allegedly "adult" fantasy.

Imho, Kender do not mix well with Adult Fantasy stuff, being overly child-like and all.

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Fardragon

I agree that FR is just a dumping ground for every fantasy trope ever invented, without any coherent vision. Krynn is at least internally consistant. It's just consistantly twee, shmaltzy and childish.

(Dragons of Dispair is a nicely designed module, I love the sidways sunken city, but the characters are soppier than Twighlight.)