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Very late thoughts, but starting to appreciate the ingenuity of Diablo 2

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  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    Ammar said:

    I always preferred the first game. The Skill System in D2 made it too easy to produce a weak character and I never liked how you needed to save Skill Points and not use them. Especially before synergies.

    And while it has good replayability, only bring able to use a very small selection of your skills sucked.

    I prefer the atmosphere of the first game. Much darker and grimmer. I actually feel like I'm fighting demons from hell, a feeling that I find lacking in diablo 2 except for Act 3 and sometimes Act 5. But mechanically, the second one is better. The first is so limited with only 3 classes, and "smaller". Fewer spells/skills, and everyone can learn them all (with a few scroll/staff-only exceptions).

    It's a dungeon crawl compared to an entire campaign.

    Plus you can manipulate the monster power with console commands.

    As an aside, this actually doesn't require a mod, this is a default core game feature. Although I think it was possibly added in LoD and/or some later version of D2.

  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited October 2017
    chimeric said:

    one feature that no designers of action games or RPGs dared to reproduce: spell books.

    One word - Sacred. Monsters there drop gold, equipment and skill runes, that function exactly like Diablo 1 spellbooks.
    That said, I haven't found Sacred as enjoyable as D2... There was some ever so subtle difference in controls/UI/optimization/what have you that just made clicking monsters a very annoying pixel-hunting process (like trying to click an Extra Fast stygian doll miniboss dashing at supersonic speed). Too many misclicks, compared to D2 monsters. To the point I completely gave up on using regular attacks and focused on building magical Seraphim, kiting monsters into mob and setting up Celestial Light, or two, or three to DoT and leech en-mass, while their attacks mostly glanced off dat chainmail bikini :D

    Dungeon Lords also had similar mechanic, where each spell had individual mana reserve that increased the more books/crystals you collected (but mostly just bought). That only worked in vanilla and Collerctor's editions though, the MMXII and Steam versions just completely butchered everything the game was ever good for and turned it from badly underdeveloped game with interesting mechanics into badly underdeveloped mediocrity.

    PS
    chimeric said:

    Resurrecting Fallen shamans.

    Don't forget Fallen Shaman uniques who resurrected Fallen Shamans who resurrected Fallens :D
    LoD just killed some of the best things vanilla D2 had.

    Post edited by Ardanis on
    JuliusBorisov
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    @Ardanis , Rage of Mages? You know what it's really called.

  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    chimeric said:

    Rage of Mages?

    I know about it, but haven't played. Don't really like RTS/RPG hybrids with hero units :|

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    But it was a fun one. Black squirrels... Hunting for spells was an important part of it, although they improved only with practice. Like putting Poison Mist over someone resistant to it and then waiting to get a few points of Water Magic.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    chimeric said:

    @Ardanis , Rage of Mages? You know what it's really called.

    Allods?

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163

    chimeric said:

    @Ardanis , Rage of Mages? You know what it's really called.

    Allods?
    Yes, Mr. Putin.

    I haven't played all of the early action RPGs mentioned here, so I can't really judge. But probably the first Diablo (even though the second was in every way more advanced and brilliant) had the most relentless combat drive of them all: going deeper and deeper... Just listen to the beginning of the tune for the Catacombs.

  • GusindaGusinda Member Posts: 1,808
    Thanks @jjstraka34, I only play D2 solo these days and hadn't heard of PlugY. I now have an install with PlugY, Median XL Ultimative, and D2MultiRes (widescreen) all runnning under D2SE. I had only play vanilla with the widescreen mod before so Median XL was an eye opener as well. Enjoying it very much (although only early stages right now) and loving the extra hoarding storage slots in the stash.

    Gus

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    edited October 2017
    chimeric said:

    chimeric said:

    @Ardanis , Rage of Mages? You know what it's really called.

    Allods?
    Yes, Mr. Putin.
    Well, I only knew that because I compulsively Wikipedia anything and everything. It's literally the second sentence on the Wikipedia entry for Rage of Mages. (Though I'd first learned that from Wikipedia years ago, I find the word easy to stick mentally, kind of like "all clods").

    I replayed it a while ago. I got further than I did the last time I played it (Mission 8?). The gameplay just bothers me and I fail it on a tactical level.

    I want to like it, but it's so...easy to screw up.

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163


    Well, I only knew that because I compulsively Wikipedia anything and everything. It's literally the second sentence on the Wikipedia entry for Rage of Mages.

    Too late. The jig is up! :D

    About Rage of Mages, well, I don't know how others played it. I pretty much always cheated - cast Poison Fog over trolls and ogres and ran away. It helps to block passages with a stone wall, set up a few walls of fire on the other side and watch them die. That sort of thing. Also, staves with lightning are very helpful. There were still lots of reloads, but it didn't bother me. I wanted to conquer those missions.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,813
    Gusinda said:

    Thanks @jjstraka34, I only play D2 solo these days and hadn't heard of PlugY. I now have an install with PlugY, Median XL Ultimative, and D2MultiRes (widescreen) all runnning under D2SE. I had only play vanilla with the widescreen mod before so Median XL was an eye opener as well. Enjoying it very much (although only early stages right now) and loving the extra hoarding storage slots in the stash.

    Gus

    Yeah, PlugY is great. MedianXL is impressive as hell, but I just don't care for the sheer volume of monsters it throws at you. The guy who made it (I believe) went on to work on itemization for Path of Exile. I don't play with the widescreen mod because you can see monsters before they aggro, which gives you an unfair advantage. Not sure how to fix that.

    Gusinda
  • GusindaGusinda Member Posts: 1,808
    Yeah, agreed. I am currently looking at Median XL 2017 which doesn't work with the widescreen mod but works well with Glide and, although it will take some getting used to, it is a much brighter and faster (movement) game play. I will probably move across to that version due to the restrictions of Directdraw.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,919

    Gusinda said:

    Diablo2 (along with BG series and Planescape) has been a permanent install on any rebuild for my PC/Notebooks since I first got them (all modded to match the screen resolutions as they changed of course). Every now and then I play D2 until my thirst is quenched and then move on again. I have recently reinstalled Diablo 1 to try out the HD Mod and found that I still quite enjoy that as well. I have tried a number of clones out there but apart from Torchlight 2, they just can't hold up there end.

    From what I have read, the remaster is definately on the cards, but it is a good idea to not hold your breath as it might take a while...

    The problem with most later ARPGs is that there are too many active skills (up to 10 or 12) at any given time. Diablo 2 had far more focused builds, and if you did need to change skills for buffs, etc. it was just a hotkey away before you went back to your main attacks. Point being, a Poison Necro was a totally different experience when compared to a Summoner, and a Lighting Javazon was nothing like one wielding Windforce. Each class has at least 4 or 5 totally viable ways to play the game, and if you multiply that by 7, you are talking some serious variety.

    Torchlight 2 is good, but it's half-baked. Grim Dawn is very good, but plays too slow. Path of Exile is too focused on online trading as the primary focus of the game (Diablo 2 was in it's heyday as well but you never NEEDED to do it). They are all good games. None of them are as good as Diablo 2. Diablo 3 is a completely different animal, and is very good for what it is, but it also has no claim to the greatness of Diablo 2. I mean, D2 stands up there with Baldur's Gate 2, Half-Life, Doom, Portal, and Warcraft 3 as really seminal PC games.
    It's literally a mixture of online trading and open builds that make path of exile so good, if you take that away from it it's just another generic clone.

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