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Musings about Classes & Playstyles [Newbie Perspective]

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  • ValciValci Member Posts: 35
    while i appreciate that mages are strong in the D&D universe suggesting that they are gods of destruction from the off isnt realistic imho... the fact is that mages are some of the easiest to kill up to a certain point. Most protections a mage can cast can to a degree be replicated with potions and to be fair there are few mages in BG1 that can go toe to toe with Dorn equipped with Spider's Bane (which gives him free action in addition to his immunity to fear) and with a poisoned weapon. I often use him with boots of speed to solo fight a certain mage in a certain mine in the woods for instance. Hell, im currently doing an Avenger run and with Iron skins + improved invis, plus the offensive arsenal of the Avenger plus the faster level progression of the druid i can take on most mages singlehandedly... and i have much better thac0 to boot. Mages get really really strong after mid game SoA and even later for multi-classes imho ... that is with a full party... solo or small party runs give you a different progression obviously.

    ThacoBell
  • VolatileVolatile Member Posts: 78
    OK. I've made up my mind: it's either a fighter/mage multi or dual (probably the berserker route). For the latter, it goes without saying that I won't be casting any spells until BG2.

    Which take us to my last question (I promise): how can I shorten the downtime from berserker 9 to mage 10? It's a whooping 250k experience.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,340
    Kick everyone except a thief from the party (ie Jan Jensen or Nalia). Get a couple of potions of thievery from merchants, ie the fence at the thieves. Rob every scroll merchant you can find. Kick out the thief. Stand around in a cozy corner and scribe all scrolls you have. Erase the ones you already know and re-scribe them again for more EXP. You'll be level 10 without fighting a single enemy. It's not fun, it's not pretty, but it's ridiculously easy.

    With the thief in the party you can also go upstairs in mae'var's guildhall and open all the locks there for several thousand worth of exp as well (and a few items you can use or sell). It's inferior to scrolls though.

    PantaliondunbarAerakar
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Scroll spam is by far the easiest, hands down. Not much need to save up quest rewards for Berserker 9, but if you were going to try for level 13 you could complete, but not turn in, the quests, then complete them all at once for no fuss party Exp to take you much of the way.

    If you do take a Fighter/Mage through BG1, keep an eye out for Wraithform, it's only available in BG so you'll want it in your spellbook (also great spell for a multiclass mage in general).

    @Valci: While they're not gods until mage level 12 or so, it's misguided to suggest that mages are anything but great throughout BG1. Sleep gives an 80% chance of basically killing most of the nasty early enemies in BG1 long before a Fighter can stop worrying about dying to an unlucky crit, and a wand of fire with its 6d6x2 scorcher is one of the most powerful damage effects throughout the game.

    Skatan
  • ValciValci Member Posts: 35
    @Pantalion ... and i appreciate that but a bard can also use wands for instance. I played a bard (of the Blade) variety and in the BG1 portion of the game he could do pretty much anything a mage could do while being significantly more potent in melee since aside from better thac0 he also had the amazingly useful offensive spin. What i'm saying is basically that while mages do get to a point where they are super strong in BG1 portion of the saga at least there are better alternatives imho. Mind you, im averse to using "tactics" like those described above to boost my XP gain... i find it cheesy... so theres that... lol

    ThacoBell
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBell
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,818
    Mages are super powerful, but only if you know how best to use them (which spells to choose especially). Someone who is new to the game doesn't know what all the spells do, so they might not make the best choices. It took me a long time of playing Throne of Bhaal before I found out that I could rest with Wish, for example.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Valci said:

    @Pantalion ... and i appreciate that but a bard can also use wands for instance. I played a bard (of the Blade) variety and in the BG1 portion of the game he could do pretty much anything a mage could do while being significantly more potent in melee since aside from better thac0 he also had the amazingly useful offensive spin. What i'm saying is basically that while mages do get to a point where they are super strong in BG1 portion of the saga at least there are better alternatives imho. Mind you, im averse to using "tactics" like those described above to boost my XP gain... i find it cheesy... so theres that... lol

    Yeah, personally I find the entire dual class mechanic to be ridiculous in general, so no arguments there.

    As for Bard? Generally sacrificing spell slots and save DCs for melee isn't a "better alternative" in general, but:

    They have a terrible tradeoff with the I/T where they get... about +1 THAC0 over the I/T and a slightly higher caster level in exchange for fewer spells, slower spells, and worse class perks.

    Equally terrible tradeoff with the F/I, where they get pick pockets and caster level in exchange for Fighter Strength, Fighter Constitution, a far better hit die, more APR, faster THAC0 progression, helmets, shields, proficiencies...

    And then there's the Illusionist/Cleric, which gets Priest THAC0 (which is better than Thief THAC0), cleric buffs, helmets and shields. Also they can spam Animate Dead to "sort of melee" for them in massive numbers, rendering the point somewhat moot.

    The only place that Bards actually have a pretty decent tradeoff is with the F/M/T and F/M/C, which endures all the way until ToB when the triple classes finally pull away into level 7 spells and the Bard's main advantage is lost.


    tl;dr: Unless you're talking about leveraging Caster Level as a blaster and dispeller or oddities like the Jester and Skald, the Bard is honestly pretty sub optimal in Baldur's Gate. NWN2 did it better.

  • ValciValci Member Posts: 35
    edited October 2017
    oh you're not wrong on the numbers... though my comparison was with mages (single class) where the trade off is much "better" while having access to much of the same stuff (personally i favor the melee power at least early game but sometimes even later on) ... not so much dual class which as you say are ridiculous and in my view have far too few drawbacks in the long run (due to how they are designed)... which is one of the reasons i never play them... im just weird that way.

  • VolatileVolatile Member Posts: 78
    So far my only gripe with the F/M is my being forced to have the elf fighter sprite instead of the mage one (elf mage is the second best looking sprite in the saga).

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    Volatile said:

    So far my only gripe with the F/M is my being forced to have the elf fighter sprite instead of the mage one (elf mage is the second best looking sprite in the saga).

    if you use EE Keeper you can change the sprite.

    Pantalion
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,340
    You don't even need that, there's a "ctrl"-command if you have the console enabled. I don't remember which now, but you can flip through the different sprites using ie ctrl+ and - or similar.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8317/general-bgee-customization-pre-v2-0/p1

    I don't remember which it is since I haven't used it in ages, maybe it's the S and F command?

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