Yea I think F/M/T is better off as a solo character in my opinion. Mage spells like invisibility are useful especially in BG 1 but by BG2 and ToB enemies can see through the spell UNLESS you're using plain ol' stealth and the cloak of non-detection. So in other words, hide in shadows and move silently will ultimately be more powerful.
Just wanted to respectfully disagree on this one. F/M/T is a great solo class but also a very effective class within a group. They make outstanding frontline fighters with the buffs: mirror image, 1 AC armor spell, stoneskin, etc. throughout the game and in the fights against the most powerful melee foes being able to use protection against magical weapons is the best spell there is. The spell immunity 5th level spell is also nice for immunity to imprisonment, etc.
Even in BG2 and TOB, there aren't that many creatures that can see through invisibility. Looking at the underdark is a pretty good representation with the three "monster" areas: beholders and mindflayers can't see through it and the sauragin (sp?) can. Once you get the HLA, improved haste + assassination is just sick.
It has tradeoffs against other classes (i.e., you can legitimately find weaker areas relative to other classes) but it holds up very well against just about anything even using little more than long-term buffs (i.e., you can run this very well without real high maintenance so you aren't casting 4 spells immediately before wading into every fight).
When I play this class, it is basically a fighter that attacks at about 85% of a straight fighter that has much better defenses and can backstab and set traps. You don't use this a primary spellcaster but it makes for a very effective warrior or thief.
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
Not really but I'm mostly fighting kobolds lol. Before now the enemies are all fairly low level, and with 19 dexterity my armor class is pretty solid. But I have a crossbow of speed lined up for the more difficult of fighters. I could use slings, but that just seems way too much like what halflings would use (since they get the bonus).
@AHF Agree with you. The only problem with F/T/M is they take longer to level. But as you say, many useful spells are level 4-. In BG:EE, however, they wouldn't be that easy to get. Quick leveling gives certain kits a huge comparative advantage. So I have reservations concerning the F/M/T relative power. Now, if you consider a F/M/T vs. 2 characters, the leveling speed is not so much of an issue anymore. However even a tri-class is rarely better than 2 characters.
@AHF Agree with you. The only problem with F/T/M is they take longer to level. But as you say, many useful spells are level 4-. In BG:EE, however, they wouldn't be that easy to get. Quick leveling gives certain kits a huge comparative advantage. So I have reservations concerning the F/M/T relative power. Now, if you consider a F/M/T vs. 2 characters, the leveling speed is not so much of an issue anymore. However even a tri-class is rarely better than 2 characters.
It is slower but not debilitating by any means. Comparing to a fighter:
At 5000 XP: F 3 -- F/M/T 2/2/3
At 15000 XP: F 4 -- F/M/T 3/3/4
At 50000 XP: F 6 -- F/M/T 4/4/5
At 100000 XP: F 7 -- F/M/T 6/5/6
At 160000 XP: F 8 -- F/M/T 6/6/7
In BG1, your F/M/T can handle your thieving needs with no problem and is a worthy fighter but not your bruiser. She can backstab with solid AC (shield, ghost armor, etc.) and defenses (blur, mirror image) and then melee or can be an effective archer in relative safety. Adding some sleeps, webs and other crowd control spells is all to the good.
Again, it has the disadvantage of not being as good as a single class in any facet but is useful in all 3 areas. Given the more limited spell selection, it is also not a bad thing to buff then (mirror image? invisibility?) put on platemail armor and then wade into a fight (only spellcasting with scrolls and wands therein).
In short - it isn't an overpowered build in BG1 but is plenty effective if it peaks your interest.
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
It's fine in BG1, but in BG2 I found it increasingly hard to hit anything, not surprising when you compare THAC0 tables... If I do a thief PC again it'll be a multi class fighter/thief
I guess it comes to what you want to do with the character besides thieving: 1) Fighter: F/T, F/M/T 2) Mage: T/M, dual T(7-10)/M 3) Cleric: T/C, dual T(7-10)/C
I'd go with Swashbuckler lvl 10 for dual classes because you just lose backstab and you wont hit anything with your thac0 anyhow. Besides the main point of dual classing is that you get as powerful in your second class as single classed character. This does mean that you'll play as thief through whole BG1 and dual class immediately in BG2.
For F/M/T I'd pick Elf as a race and go for ranged character with short/long bows as primary weapon and long sword for melee. This gives you +1 ranged thac0 from 19 dexterity and +1 from being Elf.
I think, unless starting in BG2, duals are extremely tedious, unless dualing early for some extra HPs and proficiencies (e.g. fighter level 3 to thief or mage), as you end up playing most of BG1 as a class you don't really want to play, but that's just my view...
I typically don't like dual class but I may try your idea out here in BG:EE. So fighter to level 2 and then dual immediately to thief? What do you put your intial proficiency points in? Longsword I assume along with dual wielding?
I throw my initial proficiency points all into Longsword, or maybe split between Longsword and Single Weapon Style. Take up ranged weapons or some alternative when waiting for reactivation, as if you select proficiencies that you already have from your first class, they will be wasted once your first class reactivates.
@Oxford_Guy If you play with party of 6, it doesn't matter that much what class your charname is. If you want to dual from thief to mage at level 10 and like playing mages, then just pick 3 NPC mages in BGI to compensate.
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
It's fine in BG1, but in BG2 I found it increasingly hard to hit anything, not surprising when you compare THAC0 tables... If I do a thief PC again it'll be a multi class fighter/thief
To be fair like any class in BG2 for a good chunk of the game when you don't have access to strength gloves and this sort of thing so long as you are a neutral/good thief you do have access to draw upon holy might. I mean you do lose it eventually, but it helps as a strength booster particularly for quick levelling characters like thieves. If you are evil, well, you are just going to have to get creative
Edit: My character is neutral evil. Since apparently stealing everything I can will largely only get me equipment benefits in the game, I'll probably have to stick with sucking the life out of my weaker foes up close vampirically.
I typically don't like dual class but I may try your idea out here in BG:EE. So fighter to level 2 and then dual immediately to thief? What do you put your intial proficiency points in? Longsword I assume along with dual wielding?
I throw my initial proficiency points all into Longsword, or maybe split between Longsword and Single Weapon Style. Take up ranged weapons or some alternative when waiting for reactivation, as if you select proficiencies that you already have from your first class, they will be wasted once your first class reactivates.
If you are going to do an early dual fighter>Thief, build, probably best to do this at level 3, rather than 2, for the extra proficiency
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
It's fine in BG1, but in BG2 I found it increasingly hard to hit anything, not surprising when you compare THAC0 tables... If I do a thief PC again it'll be a multi class fighter/thief
To be fair like any class in BG2 for a good chunk of the game when you don't have access to strength gloves and this sort of thing so long as you are a neutral/good thief you do have access to draw upon holy might. I mean you do lose it eventually, but it helps as a strength booster particularly for quick levelling characters like thieves. If you are evil, well, you are just going to have to get creative
Edit: My character is neutral evil. Since apparently stealing everything I can will largely only get me equipment benefits in the game, I'll probably have to stick with sucking the life out of my weaker foes up close vampirically.
You can even have a mix of "good" and "evil" Bhaal powers, quite easy to do (in BG1, anyway) if you keep your reputation around 9 or 10 close to the dream sequences, but depends in how despicably evil you want to be, I guess! :-)
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
It's fine in BG1, but in BG2 I found it increasingly hard to hit anything, not surprising when you compare THAC0 tables... If I do a thief PC again it'll be a multi class fighter/thief
To be fair like any class in BG2 for a good chunk of the game when you don't have access to strength gloves and this sort of thing so long as you are a neutral/good thief you do have access to draw upon holy might. I mean you do lose it eventually, but it helps as a strength booster particularly for quick levelling characters like thieves. If you are evil, well, you are just going to have to get creative
Edit: My character is neutral evil. Since apparently stealing everything I can will largely only get me equipment benefits in the game, I'll probably have to stick with sucking the life out of my weaker foes up close vampirically.
You can even have a mix of "good" and "evil" Bhaal powers, quite easy to do (in BG1, anyway) if you keep your reputation around 9 or 10 close to the dream sequences, but depends in how despicably evil you want to be, I guess! :-)
Ohh I'm aware of that but there is no way I'm going to be anything more or less than 5 in this playthrough. My character is very consistently evil
@Elminster - I'm confused. How does a pure swashbuckler get Tenser's? Is it from using any item and casting a scroll, or am I missing something really cool that I didn't know about the game?
Ah the classic single class thief. Good choice. Are you having any problems hitting anything? Just curious. I've never done a pure thief. I like it though. Very iconic.
It's fine in BG1, but in BG2 I found it increasingly hard to hit anything, not surprising when you compare THAC0 tables... If I do a thief PC again it'll be a multi class fighter/thief
To be fair like any class in BG2 for a good chunk of the game when you don't have access to strength gloves and this sort of thing so long as you are a neutral/good thief you do have access to draw upon holy might. I mean you do lose it eventually, but it helps as a strength booster particularly for quick levelling characters like thieves. If you are evil, well, you are just going to have to get creative
Edit: My character is neutral evil. Since apparently stealing everything I can will largely only get me equipment benefits in the game, I'll probably have to stick with sucking the life out of my weaker foes up close vampirically.
You can even have a mix of "good" and "evil" Bhaal powers, quite easy to do (in BG1, anyway) if you keep your reputation around 9 or 10 close to the dream sequences, but depends in how despicably evil you want to be, I guess! :-)
Ohh I'm aware of that but there is no way I'm going to be anything more or less than 5 in this playthrough. My character is very consistently evil
Hehe! Is 5 just above the point where the flaming fist keep bothering you? I plan on playing a lawful or neutral evil fighter/mage in my first BGEE play through and intend to be pretty diabolical too :-)
@reedmilfam yes its from use any item and casting the scroll
@Oxford_Guy 5 I believe is at the point where you can't go any lower I don't believe. I believe at 4 the flaming fist will attack you. I can't say I want to risk that at the moment. Well, at least until I'm clear of Nashkel.
@reedmilfman yes its from use any item and casting the scroll
@Oxford_Guy 5 I believe is at the point where you can't go any lower I don't believe. I believe at 4 the flaming fist will attack you. I can't say I want to risk that at the moment. Well, at least until I'm clear of Nashkel.
There was someone on these forums who played a game where he collected flaming fist helmets as trophies, like bandit scalps, LOL! :-)
@reedmilfman yes its from use any item and casting the scroll
@Oxford_Guy 5 I believe is at the point where you can't go any lower I don't believe. I believe at 4 the flaming fist will attack you. I can't say I want to risk that at the moment. Well, at least until I'm clear of Nashkel.
There was someone on these forums who played a game where he collected flaming fist helmets as trophies, like bandit scalps, LOL! :-)
Flaming fist are killing machines! Maybe I was just too noobly when I crossed them (clicked wrong dialogue and they went aggro). My party was chunked
Have Khalid hold them off while the rest of your party escapes. Make sure to take his gear though, it does sell for something (you can leave him his helmet).
Long swords or short swords. The Short Sword of Backstabbing is particularly great when you eventually get it in BG1 since it is a +3 weapon, but overall I'd stick with those since it is easy to find weapons of their types. I'd also dual wield personally. Though alternatively you could always go with staffs and two handed fighting. Those do great backstab damage.
They are adding Katanas and other weapons that did not exist in BG1 so it is hard to say yet which has the best weapon and when you'll get them. If your race is Elf go with long swords (+1 thac0). With others anything goes imo.
They are adding Katanas and other weapons that did not exist in BG1 so it is hard to say yet which has the best weapon and when you'll get them. If your race is Elf go with long swords (+1 thac0). With others anything goes imo.
Best to play it safe though. We don't know where they are adding the items, so it could only be in the new areas.
They are adding Katanas and other weapons that did not exist in BG1 so it is hard to say yet which has the best weapon and when you'll get them. If your race is Elf go with long swords (+1 thac0). With others anything goes imo.
For thief weapon styles, I like single weapon style for backstabs (double crit chance), though arguably dual wield could be better later on for straight-up melee, due to the extra off-hand bonuses
Yea I'm definitely going with single weapon style and maybe a crossbow. If I was going to make a toe-to-toe thief, I would probably go with a swashbuckler.
probably it's been said a hundred times before, but: half-elf F/M/T
why? half-elf for good con, and F/M/T for... - awesome melee, eventually they catch up to fighters, not much worse even before - mage buffs make them nigh invincible - aaand... pretty much they're the best backstabbers. why? this char can put their blade through the little mage hidden in the middle of the group, have everyone turn their attention at them, and just smile gleefully, waiting for the others to blast the living shit out of the enemies, and standing on the middle of the destruction, unharmed.
add dual wield, and (in BG2) you'll have a char that can slice enemies up with 2 scimitars, attacking 5 times a round from the point they reach 3M xp. they are awesome. (and I've probably messed up the use of singular they a few times, but... well, that's life)
Comments
Even in BG2 and TOB, there aren't that many creatures that can see through invisibility. Looking at the underdark is a pretty good representation with the three "monster" areas: beholders and mindflayers can't see through it and the sauragin (sp?) can. Once you get the HLA, improved haste + assassination is just sick.
It has tradeoffs against other classes (i.e., you can legitimately find weaker areas relative to other classes) but it holds up very well against just about anything even using little more than long-term buffs (i.e., you can run this very well without real high maintenance so you aren't casting 4 spells immediately before wading into every fight).
When I play this class, it is basically a fighter that attacks at about 85% of a straight fighter that has much better defenses and can backstab and set traps. You don't use this a primary spellcaster but it makes for a very effective warrior or thief.
Now, if you consider a F/M/T vs. 2 characters, the leveling speed is not so much of an issue anymore. However even a tri-class is rarely better than 2 characters.
At 5000 XP:
F 3 -- F/M/T 2/2/3
At 15000 XP:
F 4 -- F/M/T 3/3/4
At 50000 XP:
F 6 -- F/M/T 4/4/5
At 100000 XP:
F 7 -- F/M/T 6/5/6
At 160000 XP:
F 8 -- F/M/T 6/6/7
In BG1, your F/M/T can handle your thieving needs with no problem and is a worthy fighter but not your bruiser. She can backstab with solid AC (shield, ghost armor, etc.) and defenses (blur, mirror image) and then melee or can be an effective archer in relative safety. Adding some sleeps, webs and other crowd control spells is all to the good.
Again, it has the disadvantage of not being as good as a single class in any facet but is useful in all 3 areas. Given the more limited spell selection, it is also not a bad thing to buff then (mirror image? invisibility?) put on platemail armor and then wade into a fight (only spellcasting with scrolls and wands therein).
In short - it isn't an overpowered build in BG1 but is plenty effective if it peaks your interest.
1) Fighter: F/T, F/M/T
2) Mage: T/M, dual T(7-10)/M
3) Cleric: T/C, dual T(7-10)/C
I'd go with Swashbuckler lvl 10 for dual classes because you just lose backstab and you wont hit anything with your thac0 anyhow. Besides the main point of dual classing is that you get as powerful in your second class as single classed character. This does mean that you'll play as thief through whole BG1 and dual class immediately in BG2.
For F/M/T I'd pick Elf as a race and go for ranged character with short/long bows as primary weapon and long sword for melee. This gives you +1 ranged thac0 from 19 dexterity and +1 from being Elf.
Edit: My character is neutral evil. Since apparently stealing everything I can will largely only get me equipment benefits in the game, I'll probably have to stick with sucking the life out of my weaker foes up close vampirically.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/119375/#Comment_119375
You can even have a mix of "good" and "evil" Bhaal powers, quite easy to do (in BG1, anyway) if you keep your reputation around 9 or 10 close to the dream sequences, but depends in how despicably evil you want to be, I guess! :-)
@Oxford_Guy 5 I believe is at the point where you can't go any lower I don't believe. I believe at 4 the flaming fist will attack you. I can't say I want to risk that at the moment. Well, at least until I'm clear of Nashkel.
Which weapons should I use? Katanas? Longswords? Other?
Shall I dual weild or go with only one weapon?
Which setup you think is the best?
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6704/dual-wield-questions#latest
Even if eleves eventually get nerfed to PnP rules, they'll still get +1 THAC0 with both long *and* shortswords
For a thief, short swords are arguably better, as they're faster, so easier to get a successful backstab, though magic long swords can be equally fast
why? half-elf for good con, and F/M/T for...
- awesome melee, eventually they catch up to fighters, not much worse even before
- mage buffs make them nigh invincible
- aaand... pretty much they're the best backstabbers. why? this char can put their blade through the little mage hidden in the middle of the group, have everyone turn their attention at them, and just smile gleefully, waiting for the others to blast the living shit out of the enemies, and standing on the middle of the destruction, unharmed.
add dual wield, and (in BG2) you'll have a char that can slice enemies up with 2 scimitars, attacking 5 times a round from the point they reach 3M xp. they are awesome. (and I've probably messed up the use of singular they a few times, but... well, that's life)