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How do you beat the final battle with Ascension installed?

Pretty much as the title says. No matter what I do I always seem to get utterly smashed in final fight in ToB with the Ascension mod installed. I doubt it is level or party composition related either as all other encounters up to that point pose no problem what so ever. So I pose this question to those people who have beaten it: How did you do it? As an example let's assume I am using a party consisting of:

- A Berserker
- A Paladin
- A Mage/Thief dual
- A Mage
- A Cleric

I'd especially be interested in hearing the order in which I should be taking down enemies in this fight as well.
JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    Don't forget about your Bhaal powers for the fight. They help quite a bit. I tend to get overwhelmed easly in this fight, so I target the squishier enemies first to create some breathing room. High level summons help take some of the pressure off as well. Amelyssan is very dangerous, but if she is still alive when you have killed several of the other bhaalspawn, she will start summoning demons that you can take control of to help as well. Considering that the difficulty level of this fight is such a higher bar than the rest of the series, there is no shame in bumping the difficulty down as well.
  • ArvendorArvendor Member Posts: 5
    Yes, Charname gets the "Focus" ability to allow him or her to avoid Timestop. But then I still have the problem that Balthazar is just straight up immune to it and the caster is usually Abazigal. The two of them usually just outright kill one of my party members during timestop. The mages can protect themselves with PfMW but my fighters and cleric can't. I've tried killing Balthazar immediately at the start of the fight but he just casts second wind which fully heals him. Dispelling Abazigals defences would take too long as well so I am at a bit of a loss at how to protect my party.
    semiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    Ouch, having Balthazar on your side is a huge help. I've never done the fight against him. Ilasera is easy to take down if you can corner her. I don't often see Abazigal cast timestop, as I keep token pressure on him and the fire giant to allow my the rest of my party try to focus the others down. I can usually get Gromnir and Ilassera down pretty quickly, which me a little breathing room. Sendai is a good priority target too.
    Arvendor
  • ArvendorArvendor Member Posts: 5
    Yeah, I've noticed that if you don't have any summons out attacking Abazigal he will immediately resort to casting timestop. I usually just ignore Yaga Shura as he doesn't really do anything that dangerous. But thanks for the advice, I'll try using more summons to keep them occupied and try killing Illasera or Sendai first. I usually don't bother with the latter since the others seem more dangerous but who knows.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,365
    Can I hijack this thread a bit?
    Apologies in advance.

    Could anyone lay out what actually happens in the ascension mod please.
    Keep seeing it mentioned and obviously have figured that you end up fighting every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever met.
    But how does it pan out/work?
    Where does it take place?
    And why does any of it happen?
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,365
    @lunar

    Thankyou. :)
    (BTW your post is not appearing in spoilers )

    And this all takes place at the "Throne", on that ring platform?
    And the essence pools, do they still happen with their respective foes?
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,302
    edited November 8
    Yes it all takes in the same place, the essence pools have fights as well, but they have some more interesting demons with new abilities as fights.

    You don't get to fight the final boss in intervals like the original, however. You fight Irenicus&Bodhi&Solars&Imoen at your arrival, then do the pools and fight the army of demons, and then trigger the final battle after the last pool. In the final battle, the boss sends the all other bosses together first, and joins the fray after one is killed. Once all of them are killed, she becomes killable, however on insane difficulty she continously summons armies of demons (with nasty, nasty abilities) when left alone. The protagonist is given an ability to wrestle the control of demons, but she can also wrest them back, and if you play a tug of war too long you are bound to lose.

    I don't know how to place spoiler brackets, but well, I guess anyone who reads about Ascension already knows about the ToB bosses and the like. I did not even name the final boss. :smiley:
    UnderstandMouseMagic
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,365
    To get the thread back on topic, (sorry OP)

    @Arvendor

    After reading the above, no idea at all.
    Apart from go make a calming cup of tea after throwing your PC out of the window.

    Good luck. :)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    edited November 8
    It is worth nothing that the harder fights (barring the final battle) are all optional components. For me, the main draw of ascension is the little story revamps and bug fixes. Things like being able to team up with Balthazar as a good aligned charname makes more sense than a forced fight to the death. And pre-EE it fixed the dialogue bug that prevented Imoens banters from firing. Lots of little bug fixes and nice touches that makes ToB feel more satisfying. Its like an unofficial director's cut.

    @lunar TurnAround sounds very interesting, is it by chance EE compatible?
    StummvonBordwehr
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    @lunar I'll try it for my next run then, thanks.
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 8
    Arvendor said:

    Yes, Charname gets the "Focus" ability to allow him or her to avoid Timestop. But then I still have the problem that Balthazar is just straight up immune to it and the caster is usually Abazigal. The two of them usually just outright kill one of my party members during timestop. The mages can protect themselves with PfMW but my fighters and cleric can't. I've tried killing Balthazar immediately at the start of the fight but he just casts second wind which fully heals him. Dispelling Abazigals defences would take too long as well so I am at a bit of a loss at how to protect my party.

    Have you tried invisibility or sanctuary & spreading your party around, so that charname is closest to Abazigal? Hit focus as soon as you hear him casting (alteration spells start with 'Praeses'). It's been some time since I've played Ascension, so I don't remember who there can see through invisibility.

    Also, if Balthazar is fightning against you, then you should be able to recruit Bodhi.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 418
    Having Balthazar against you multiplies the difficulty, because of his speed as much as anything. Having the mental stats to recruit him is so important that in a no-reload I would prioritise them over good physical stats if you have to compromise.

    You may wish to consider laying out some early traps and summons to keep your opponents distracted. Prioritise one side for a custom chain contingency and try to distract the other side. Incapacitating opponents can be better than killing them due to the Mel factor with mazes etc. Usually Yaga-Shura and a disabled Sendai are easiest to ignore while Illasera is first to go.
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 438
    what stats/requirements are needed for balthazar again to side with you?
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 204
    edited November 9
    I haven't tested, but I think this is a way to solo ascension:

    be a mage

    memorize shape change (level 9).

    Prepare a spell trigger with: tensors transforation, protection from magic weapons, enchanted weapon weapon

    Prepare a contingency with protection from magic weapons on hurt

    Prepare a chain contingency with protection from magic weapons spell immunity: divination, spell immunity: abjuration on enemy sighted.

    cast improved invisibility, and shape change before the fight. Go in the fight and cast some spells at people, focus on the ones that weaken them and also summon a planetar. Cast shapechange before protection from magic wears off, choose mind flayer form and activate the spell trigger.

    You now drain 5 intelligence per hit until they all die fro brain death, you attack 8 times per round (more than one attack every second) with the accuracy of a fighter. They can't hit you, you are immune to everything.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,193
    @unavailable I'm not certain what additional complications are added by SCS in the final fight as opposed to just Ascension on its own. However, I suspect you would find significant problems with your proposed strategy, such as:
    - enemies being immune to stat drain
    - enemies requiring +4 weapons to hit
    - your spells running out as a result of repeated timestops and enemies using PfMW
    StummvonBordwehr
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    @Grond0
    Ascension enemies are immune to int drain, but I think Haer's dex draining sword works on some of them. (?) But yeah, Shapechange mind flayer is not very useful in this fight.
    Grond0semiticgod
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,302
    edited November 10
    brunardo said:

    what stats/requirements are needed for balthazar again to side with you?

    I always had a rep of 20, 18 charisma and wisdom (thanks to friends spell or ring of human influence/potion of wisdom) and had a good aligned pc, and never failed to recruit him in my play throughs. It becomes very easy with those stats. If you are not good aligned, and have less rep and low cha/wis it may become harder or impossible.
    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    You have to at least not be evil. I don't know if neutral is enough. With the right dialogue choices, I believe a WIS of 16 is enough. Less might be possible.
  • RedrakeRedrake Member Posts: 328
    ThacoBell said:

    You have to at least not be evil. I don't know if neutral is enough. With the right dialogue choices, I believe a WIS of 16 is enough. Less might be possible.

    I have not played in at least 8 years, but I do remember you need to be good and have good reputation. Not so certain about Wis.
    And also earlier talks with him are very important. You must show yourself to feel tainted by the Bhaal blood and to act good natured towards innocents or something similar.


  • extremeragnarokextremeragnarok Member Posts: 23
    It was ridiculous, but I pulled it off. My party consisted of me, a Kensai-Thief, Minsc, Sarevok, Viconia, Imoen, and Edwin.
    Time-traps were a dire necessity, especially to take out Abazigal. He hit like a friggin Mac truck. I ended up accidentally cheesing the last part. Mellissan got stuck, probably from the pathing issues that were made worse in EE, and I just had Viconia, Imoen, and Edwin shred her with energy blades.
    UnderstandMouseMagicbrunardo
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    " probably from the pathing issues that were made worse in EE,"

    Lol, that's a good one. In the original I couldn't get any party members to make it across a single screen width without getting stuck on each other. Now I can reliably get the whole party across any map that isn't the Firewine Ruins in a single click.
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