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[Mod] DnD 3.5 Rules in Bg:EE and Bg2:EE v 2.0

HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
edited November 19 in General Modding
Hello Everyone.

I would like to announce the version 2.0 of my DnD 3.5 mod which is now also compatible with Bg2.

In short this mod tries to transform Baldur's Gate ADnD rules into DnD 3.5 (with some elements of the Pathfinder) within the game engine limits.

The complete description as well as the mod itself can be found at

https://github.com/Holic75/Baldurs-gate-dnd-3.5/releases


Any feedback, suggestions or bug reports are more than welcome.

Post edited by Holic on
Luke93StummvonBordwehrShapiroKeatsDarkMageGrammarsaladtbone1Flashburn
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Comments

  • Luke93Luke93 Member Posts: 525
    Very interesting!

    Do you know any particular conflict with other mods? When should this mod be installed?

    It's a pity enemies don't receive feats.... -> The component [more powerful enemies] is strongly recommend, isn't it? Will it conflict with SCS?

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Hello @Luke93

    Yes [More powerful enemies] is indeed used to compensate for all new feats and abilities player characters receive, although some of them are also applied to enemies (like Saving throws and spell DC bonuses based on stats). Personally I could only play BG1 till the end with this mod myself and found difficulty level quite adequate.

    I think if you install SCS (or any other balance changing mod) before the DND 3.5 and then skip [More powerful enemies] then everything should work fine.

  • Luke93Luke93 Member Posts: 525
    Holic said:

    ...although some of them are also applied to enemies (like Saving throws and spell DC bonuses based on stats).

    So, SCS enemies will get only passive bonuses based on stats, right? What about extra spell slots due to INT and WIS? Will SCS mages and priests receive them? Or will they be empty?

  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 98
    This is very cool. I'll see if I can free up some time to check it out and provide some feedback.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Luke93 said:


    So, SCS enemies will get only passive bonuses based on stats, right? What about extra spell slots due to INT and WIS? Will SCS mages and priests receive them? Or will they be empty?

    Yes they will only receive passive bonuses, but not bonus spells (since in this case the slots would be empty anyways)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 8,001
    All of these bonuses are applied via script, right? In baldur.bcs? Do such things affect enemies, or just the party?

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18

    All of these bonuses are applied via script, right? In baldur.bcs? Do such things affect enemies, or just the party?

    No, in fact most of the bonuses are applied through permanent or persistent spell effects via clab files, through baldur.bcs I mostly give some innates after rest, whose number of uses depend on character stats (like channel energy/ lay on hands or bard songs)

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    @subtledoctor

    By the way, I wanted to thank you for Scales of Balance, it was actually the mod which inspired me to do DND 3.5

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 1,955
    edited November 22
    Can you post a few screenshots of this mod?

    Post edited by ShapiroKeatsDarkMage on
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 98
    I really like a lot of the mechanical changes to classes and such in this. I've not made it far out of the tutorial but it seems cool.

    Looking at the readme and seeing the npc class changes, I definitely understand why you changed a lot of them around to give greater diversity in gameplay but some of them really don't reflect the personality of the character. I do sort of wonder if it might be good to have a "lore friendly" component that changes the npcs to their original classes.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18


    Looking at the readme and seeing the npc class changes, I definitely understand why you changed a lot of them around to give greater diversity in gameplay but some of them really don't reflect the personality of the character. I do sort of wonder if it might be good to have a "lore friendly" component that changes the npcs to their original classes.

    I agree that some changes to NPCs might not make a lot of sense, so I would appreciate if you can suggest something better. Otherwise, if you want to change npc classes and stats you can do it in \3ed\Component12\UpdateNpcStats.tps (using any text editor, actually this is quite straightforward, but do not hesitate to ask if you need some clarifications) and then reinstall the very last component [UpdateNpcStats] (you also will need to start a new game for changes to take place)

  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 372
    Great mod, just need time to play :)
    This must have taken a lot of time.
    BTW I added it to the Modlist for BG2, thanks.

  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 98
    Holic said:



    I agree that some changes to NPCs might not make a lot of sense, so I would appreciate if you can suggest something better. Otherwise, if you want to change npc classes and stats you can do it in \3ed\Component12\UpdateNpcStats.tps (using any text editor, actually this is quite straightforward, but do not hesitate to ask if you need some clarifications) and then reinstall the very last component [UpdateNpcStats] (you also will need to start a new game for changes to take place)

    Oh awesome thanks for letting me know how to make that change.

    I'll think about what my suggestions would be to fit the characters but also avoid overlap but I feel like the only way to really 'fix' that problem is to make more additional kits. Like Minsc really should be a Ranger... it's part of the whole charm of the character but he also needs Rage so you'd have to just give him that ability or have some kind of barbarian-ranger kit.

  • Aegonek98Aegonek98 Member Posts: 6
    Holy crap this is so good, I can't imagine how much work u put in this mod. I love how it makes game more interesting when keeping rules simple. This mod needs more attention.

  • Aegonek98Aegonek98 Member Posts: 6
    Fighter/Mage spell progression is bugged though, they receive one spell less they should get by their class description on all spell lvls except 1st.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Hello @Aegonek98
    Aegonek98 said:

    Fighter/Mage spell progression is bugged though, they receive one spell less they should get by their class description on all spell lvls except 1st.

    Thanks for the feedback and the bug report.
    It seems to be fixed now (version 2.04)

  • Aegonek98Aegonek98 Member Posts: 6
    For new character everything is fine now, but for my old character slots are the same. To they update on some trigger or do i have to start new game?

    Also, how are stat bonuses checked? Every x sec/milisec? On every change? Something different? I don't know crap about modding, so they are just wild guesses.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Aegonek98 said:

    For new character everything is fine now, but for my old character slots are the same. To they update on some trigger or do i have to start new game?

    Also, how are stat bonuses checked? Every x sec/milisec? On every change? Something different? I don't know crap about modding, so they are just wild guesses.

    Yes you need to start a new character for changes to take effect, otherwise if you have EEKeeper or NearInfinity I can explain you how to fix this on existing character (generally you need to remove duplicates of F_MSPL1 , F_MSPL3 etc effects)

    The stat bonuses are supposed to be mostly checked every second with few exceptions

  • Luke93Luke93 Member Posts: 525
    What is the Creature regularization component for? I cannot find it in the ReadMe....

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Luke93 said:

    What is the Creature regularization component for? I cannot find it in the ReadMe....

    It remaps proficiencies of creatures to new ones based on feat system (i.e. there is no proficiency long swords now so all pts in longsword are transferred to straight swords proficiency, etc...) and also activates some stat dependent features on them (like bonus saving throws based on dex, con, wis and increases spell dc for spell casters based on their int and wis as per DND 3.5 rules)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 8,001
    Do the combined proficiencies re-use the regular (BG2) proficiency slots? Or are you using the old BG1 slots?

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18

    Do the combined proficiencies re-use the regular (BG2) proficiency slots? Or are you using the old BG1 slots?

    they reuse BG2 slots, I'm not sure there is a way to write something to old slots BG1 or display them (well, actually it is perfectly possible to write using cre files, but it seems that there is no way to read these values from a bcs script)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 8,001
    Got it. It's just that, the way it was described it looked like it was referring to the old slots. ("Large Swords," "Bows," etc.) I've heard tell that the old proficiencies can actually be functional... so some have tried using them. But they are not completely functional (IIRC) so it's not a great idea. So, was just eliminating the possibility that that was causing an issue. :wink:

  • Aegonek98Aegonek98 Member Posts: 6
    edited December 8
    I think 3 class multiclassers are a bad idea. They are very hard to balance with your system, F/M/T is clearly better than M/T, not having access to 8/9 lvl spells in no penalty in early game, and starts to hurt at the endgame. Besides, i think removing "good in everything" multiclasses was right decision.

    Honestly, I don't see a reason why not to unify spellcasting progressions to all multiclassers, like remove all multiclasses except Mage/Cleric access to 8th/9th arcane lvl/7th divine lvl magic and reduce they spells per day by 1 comparing to pure classes. Mage/Cleric should IMO still have access to highest lvl spells, as their point is pure spellcasting, so I would dump their arcane spell progression by 1 and divine lvl progression by 2. Maybe it would make cleric multiclasses a bit stronger than the others, but it would make multiclassing a lot simpler and more consistent (at 2.04 it was a total mess, now it's a bit better) and give classes more identity (taking access from highest lvl spells would show as their cant master both arts and they would be a bit worse than base classes in their specializations. They are already worse in non-casting aspect (less Thac0/skill points/other aspects), and i think taking so many spell slots from them is overkill for early game) Also, I would totally give spell channeling to Mage/Thief.

    These are just my thoughts, this is YOUR mod and you made awesome work. I'll probably try to do this changes myself as an addon, when I will have time (and probably fail horribly)

    Also, I'm surprised how little attention your mod has, this is so weird considering how clickbaiting your title is. xD

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    edited December 8
    @Aegonek98

    Hi, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I agree that it's not very evident to balance f/m/t and at first glance it might look better than m/t but in fact these are two classes that expected, at least by myself, to be played differently. M/T is kind of a wizard who traded 1 spell per level + a pair of feats and epic spells for thief utility and he is even not supposed to use backstab (although after tenser's transform he definitely can) , that is why he does not receive channeling.

    F/M/T is more like a bard who traded his lore, songs or f/m who traded a pair of feats + ability to wear heavy armor, for thief skills + some limited backstab damage (all three classes are supposed to have similar spell progression, f/m/t just gets - 1 spell per level on top)

    Combat-wise I actually expect bard or any of its kits to be actually more powerful than f/m/t (the bard songs seem to be really strong although a bit slow to use and probably need some kind of re-balance) , usability-wise f/m/t definitely wins.


    Actually if you want to change spell progression yourself it is quite easy, all multiclasses receive a number of spells based on their reference casting classes (mage or cleric) and then a number of slots is subtracted or added at certain levels which is defined in corresponding 2DA files in \3ed\SpellProgression, you can simply change them with any text editor and then reinstall the mod (you will need to start a new game though). Do not hesitate to ask if you have more questions?

    Post edited by Holic on
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 98
    edited December 11
    Ok I’ve probably given this waaaay more thought than I should have but here are some proposed changes I would make (and will likely be making in my own game that I start after EET goes to 1.0) which uses your mod). There are 2 kit suggestions I make here that I think might help round out some characters but I’ve made alternative suggestions in each case because I don’t expect you to go out of your way to make all new kits just to fit my ideas of what best fit each character. I’ve also suggested ability changes to each npc, mostly because it slightly annoys me how 3E and Pathfinder only give bonuses at even ability points so it results in characters that even numbered stats in all of their abilities. Since this mod does not have a component that allows you to raise ability points at level up, it doesn’t hurt to give npcs some random +1 increases on some of their stats. This is admittedly an OCD issue on my side so I don’t blame you if you think I sound ridiculous to even suggest this.

    Also just a side suggestion with weapon proficiencies - let mages use crossbows since those are simple weapons in Pathfinder. At least light crossbows anyway.

    Proposed NPC class changes:

    Baeloth - Change back to Sorc - He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would ever engage in melee.
    Coran - Change back to Fighter-Thief - Being a thief is part of his whole shtick.
    Dynaheir - Suggestion for new kit - an Oracle kit for Sorcerer. Otherwise keep her as a Diviner. I don’t think having three specialist mages in BG1 results in too much overlap and besides her and Edwin don’t get along anyway.
    Eldoth - I think the changes you made to Jester make this *perfect* for Eldoth personality-wise.
    Imoen - Change to vanilla bard. She seems like the kind of inspirational jack of all trades type. She might be a trickster type but she doesn't seem like someone with the temperament to use poisons.
    Garrick - Change to Skald. He's super into heroic deeds and songs so it would make sense he would get really into character wading into combat.
    Khalid - I think a Ranger actually fits his temprement much better and you don’t already have a single class Ranger slot taken up.
    Minsc - New Kit - Barbarian Ranger which can be a psuedo-multiclass with Barb HP and raging but loses two weapon fighting, evasion, and druid spells. Otherwise I guess keep him as a Barbarian.
    Shar-Teel - She’s a Berserker if there ever was one.
    Quayle/Tiax/Viconia - Change them back to original classes. I think each of them has a pretty distinct flavor as the class they are and with the other suggestions there’s no overlap.
    Skie - Maybe Fighter-Mage-Thief to reflect she’s had a wide range of training from an aristocratic background but is untrained in anything particular?
    Yeslick - Undead Hunter. 3E makes Paladins no longer race restricted and he seems like he would work well as a paladin alternative to Ajantis.
    Imoen in BG2 - So here’s the thing about Imoen in BG2… without her thieving skills the first level of the Irenicus dungeon is a huge pain. This almost makes her required as part thief if your own PC isn’t a thief. So Mage-Thief is probably what she has to be. If not for the opening dungeon I’d actually say she should be a pure Sorcerer to reflect her increased training in SoD and her divine blood. I actually might do that anyway and just make a multiplayer custom character thief that meets an unfortunate end after recruiting Yoshimo. Or you could move Yoshimo to the first level before thief skills are required (but you’d have to edit his dialogue to remove references to the mephit portal room... might not be worth it)
    Nalia - Also I’d make her a Fighter-Mage-Thief. She’s like a more competent Skie.
    Mazzy - Make Mazzy a Paladin. She so desperately wanted to be one in the base game but just couldn’t because 2e restrictions on non-human paladins were dumb af. Plus with high Dex she could fill a role of a ranged Paladin which would be kinda neat.
    Jan - If we accept that Imoen has to be part thief then change him to a Jester to get rid of overlap. The jester song fits him very well since he’d be always confusing enemies by telling stories in combat. Otherwise his normal class of illusionist-thief fits well.


    New Kit suggestions:

    Kit for Ranger - BARBARIAN RANGER
    Advantages:
    Hit Dice increases to d12
    Gains Rage as a barbarian
    Disadvantages:
    Does not receive two weapon fighting feats
    Does not receive druid spellcasting
    Does not receive Evasion

    Kit for Sorcerer - ORACLE
    Advantages:
    Learns spells from the cleric spell list at levels 1-7 rather than mage spells (Maybe in addition to some mage spells? Not sure how level 8 and 9 spells would be handled, maybe just give them a limited selection of mage spells at these levels or create more divine flavored versions of them. Their spellcasting should be weaker in general than a regular Sorcerer because of their increased defenses).
    Hit Dice increases to d6
    Gains Cleric epic spells instead rather than mage spells
    Gains AC bonus as a Monk but based on Charisma.
    Gains Save bonuses as a Paladin/Jester
    Disadvantages:
    Does not cast arcane spells


    NPC stat suggestions:

    Ajantis - 15, 10, 14, 10, 15, 16
    Alora - 10, 20, 11, 14, 9, 9
    Baeloth - 11, 16, 12, 15, 10, 17
    Branwen - 15, 10, 15, 10, 16, 13
    Coran - 14, 19, 13, 11, 10, 15
    Dorn - 16, 10, 13, 10, 14, 15
    Dynaheir (if Oracle) - 9, 15, 10, 14, 9, 17
    Dynaheir (if Diviner) - 9, 15, 10, 17, 9, 14
    Edwin - 10, 10, 16, 18, 9, 10
    Eldoth - 14, 15, 14, 14, 10, 15
    Faldorn - 14, 14, 15, 10, 16, 11
    Garrick - 14, 16, 15, 10, 9, 15
    Imoen in BG1 - 9, 15, 12, 15, 11, 15
    Imoen in BG2 if M/T - 9, 15, 12, 17, 11, 13
    Imoen in BG2 as Sorc - 9, 14, 12, 15, 11, 18
    Jaheira - 14, 14, 15, 11, 16, 10
    Kagain - 16, 10, 19, 11, 10, 8
    Khalid - 14, 16, 13, 10, 14, 9
    Kivan - 14, 16, 13, 10, 16, 10
    Minsc - 18, 15, 16, 8, 8, 9
    Montaron - 13, 18, 15, 14, 9, 9
    Neera - NO CHANGE
    Quayle - 10, 17, 16, 17, 10, 8
    Rasaad - 14, 17, 12, 10, 15, 10
    Safana - 11, 17, 16, 12, 9, 13
    Shar-Teel - 17, 17, 14, 10, 8, 10
    Skie - 12, 15, 11, 16, 8, 10
    Tiax - 10, 13, 16, 10, 16, 8
    Viconia - 10, 17, 10, 12, 17, 13
    Xan - 14, 16, 12, 17, 10, 9
    Xzar - 10, 12, 14, 17, 9, 9
    Yeslick - 16, 10, 17, 8, 16, 12
    Yoshimo - 15, 17, 14, 14, 10, 11
    Valygar - 15, 16, 15, 11, 14, 10
    Nalia - 12, 15, 14, 16, 10, 11
    Mazzy - 12, 18, 13, 10, 14, 11
    Keldorn - 16, 8, 15, 10, 14, 15
    Korgan - 17, 12, 19, 11, 8, 8
    Jan - 10, 15, 14, 15, 8, 14 (trade up 2 int and 2 dex for 4 charisma if F/T)
    Haer’dalis - 15, 17, 10, 16, 10, 14
    Cernd - 10, 13, 13, 12, 18, 10
    Aerie - 10, 18, 10, 17, 16, 13
    Anomen - 17, 10, 15, 10, 14, 12 (Does his wisdom still get bumped to 16 if he successfully does his quest?)
    Sarevok - 18, 16, 16, 15, 10, 12 (I think Sarevok deserves to have slightly OP stats)
    Hexxat - 16, 20, 12, 18, 12, 15

    Post edited by AWizardDidIt on
  • AWizardDidItAWizardDidIt Member Posts: 98
    Also I just want to reiterate that despite all these suggested changes I think your mod is tremendous and is an excellent alternative to subtledoctor's class changes (which are fantastic in their own right). It should get just as much attention imo.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    Hi @AWizardDidIt, thanks for the post and the feedback

    Actually many of your propositions make sense (especially roleplaying wise) but some of them might create some balance issues

    So what I propose is to make the following changes


    Imoen - f/m/t in Bg1/Bg2 (I agree that jester is not ideal class for her roleplaying wise, same holds for Eldoth he might be probably as manipulative as jester should be but he uses more his charisma to influence people rather than playing a fool - so I think it is better to keep him as a blade)

    Then Nalia in Bg2 can become a bard (which is probably goes well with her noble origin and the fact that she learned magic, although in DND 3.5 bards do not learn magic but get it for free as sorcerers, but we can assume that in ADnD they do)


    Since we now have a thief in the beginning of BG1 I can probably change class of Khalid back to Fighter (making him a ranger together with jaheira will give you 2 characters with animal companions which I think is a bit too much, he can be cleric/ranger though since they do not get animal companions, but I'm not sure it fits him really well)

    Then F/T can back go to Coran, and Kivan can become an Archer or a Stalker
    Then I'm not sure about Shar-teel - she is aggressive but also cold-blooded in the same time - probably not a trait of a berserker (probably might be a f/m as her father Angelo, may be a sort of self-taught Hexblade)

    Garrick is a coward so I do not really him as Raging Skald (although I believe that there is a banter with Minsc so proposes him exactly to fight like a berserker) so it is probably better to keep him as pureclass Bard


    If Viconia is left is a cleric - she would be a very poor one in DND 3.5 due to her stats - dex is useless for priests, besides I believe that having spent a lot of time on the surface she learned how to hide and probably how to quickly kill those who have spotted her and leave no witnesses. Also with a shortage of thieves in BG2, i think adding her a thief class would make her much more valuable npc.


    Same for Mazzy, with her stats she would be really poor paladin (it is also difficult to imagine her carrying a holy avenger which is probably as big as herself). Since kensai represents a sort of very dedicated warrior, it probably suits her personality well enough (besides it still allows to keep the idea that she aspires to be a paladin)

    Quayle can become again a c/m since we will already have an f/m/t Imoen

    The only problem is what to do with Tiax, since there is already one C/T, may be F/C/M (in the end why does he need to steal if he is going to rule?)

    Still thinking to whom I could fit the sorcerer or battle caster in BG2.

  • DjinnDjinn Member Posts: 29
    How compatible is this with other gameplay changing mods? I'm thinking the @subtledoctor mods and tome & blood in particular, but also more styles for mages and the druid/ranger animal companion mods.

  • HolicHolic Member Posts: 18
    edited December 17
    Djinn said:

    How compatible is this with other gameplay changing mods? I'm thinking the @subtledoctor mods and tome & blood in particular, but also more styles for mages and the druid/ranger animal companion mods.

    Hi @Djinn
    The mod introduces already plenty of changes to classes and kits by making them closer to DND 3.5 or pathfinder and it has also it's own mechanics for druid/ranger animal companions, so it is very likely to be completely incompatible with the mods you mentioned. It has a modular structure though, so if you do not install animal companions component (which is supposed to be completely independent from everything else) from the mod you can theoretically try to replace it with other implementation. Also again theoretically nothing stops you from installing new kits before or after the mod, but I think they will not be properly balanced.

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