[Mod] DnD 3.5 Rules in Bg:EE and Bg2:EE v 2.0
Holic
Member Posts: 66
Hello Everyone.
I would like to announce the version 2.0 of my DnD 3.5 mod which is now also compatible with Bg2.
In short this mod tries to transform Baldur's Gate ADnD rules into DnD 3.5 (with some elements of the Pathfinder) within the game engine limits.
The complete description as well as the mod itself can be found at
https://github.com/Holic75/Baldurs-gate-dnd-3.5/releases
Any feedback, suggestions or bug reports are more than welcome.
I would like to announce the version 2.0 of my DnD 3.5 mod which is now also compatible with Bg2.
In short this mod tries to transform Baldur's Gate ADnD rules into DnD 3.5 (with some elements of the Pathfinder) within the game engine limits.
The complete description as well as the mod itself can be found at
https://github.com/Holic75/Baldurs-gate-dnd-3.5/releases
Any feedback, suggestions or bug reports are more than welcome.
Post edited by Holic on
21
Comments
Do you know any particular conflict with other mods? When should this mod be installed?
It's a pity enemies don't receive feats.... -> The component [more powerful enemies] is strongly recommend, isn't it? Will it conflict with SCS?
Yes [More powerful enemies] is indeed used to compensate for all new feats and abilities player characters receive, although some of them are also applied to enemies (like Saving throws and spell DC bonuses based on stats). Personally I could only play BG1 till the end with this mod myself and found difficulty level quite adequate.
I think if you install SCS (or any other balance changing mod) before the DND 3.5 and then skip [More powerful enemies] then everything should work fine.
By the way, I wanted to thank you for Scales of Balance, it was actually the mod which inspired me to do DND 3.5
Looking at the readme and seeing the npc class changes, I definitely understand why you changed a lot of them around to give greater diversity in gameplay but some of them really don't reflect the personality of the character. I do sort of wonder if it might be good to have a "lore friendly" component that changes the npcs to their original classes.
This must have taken a lot of time.
BTW I added it to the Modlist for BG2, thanks.
I'll think about what my suggestions would be to fit the characters but also avoid overlap but I feel like the only way to really 'fix' that problem is to make more additional kits. Like Minsc really should be a Ranger... it's part of the whole charm of the character but he also needs Rage so you'd have to just give him that ability or have some kind of barbarian-ranger kit.
It seems to be fixed now (version 2.04)
Also, how are stat bonuses checked? Every x sec/milisec? On every change? Something different? I don't know crap about modding, so they are just wild guesses.
The stat bonuses are supposed to be mostly checked every second with few exceptions
Honestly, I don't see a reason why not to unify spellcasting progressions to all multiclassers, like remove all multiclasses except Mage/Cleric access to 8th/9th arcane lvl/7th divine lvl magic and reduce they spells per day by 1 comparing to pure classes. Mage/Cleric should IMO still have access to highest lvl spells, as their point is pure spellcasting, so I would dump their arcane spell progression by 1 and divine lvl progression by 2. Maybe it would make cleric multiclasses a bit stronger than the others, but it would make multiclassing a lot simpler and more consistent (at 2.04 it was a total mess, now it's a bit better) and give classes more identity (taking access from highest lvl spells would show as their cant master both arts and they would be a bit worse than base classes in their specializations. They are already worse in non-casting aspect (less Thac0/skill points/other aspects), and i think taking so many spell slots from them is overkill for early game) Also, I would totally give spell channeling to Mage/Thief.
These are just my thoughts, this is YOUR mod and you made awesome work. I'll probably try to do this changes myself as an addon, when I will have time (and probably fail horribly)
Also, I'm surprised how little attention your mod has, this is so weird considering how clickbaiting your title is. xD
Hi, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I agree that it's not very evident to balance f/m/t and at first glance it might look better than m/t but in fact these are two classes that expected, at least by myself, to be played differently. M/T is kind of a wizard who traded 1 spell per level + a pair of feats and epic spells for thief utility and he is even not supposed to use backstab (although after tenser's transform he definitely can) , that is why he does not receive channeling.
F/M/T is more like a bard who traded his lore, songs or f/m who traded a pair of feats + ability to wear heavy armor, for thief skills + some limited backstab damage (all three classes are supposed to have similar spell progression, f/m/t just gets - 1 spell per level on top)
Combat-wise I actually expect bard or any of its kits to be actually more powerful than f/m/t (the bard songs seem to be really strong although a bit slow to use and probably need some kind of re-balance) , usability-wise f/m/t definitely wins.
Actually if you want to change spell progression yourself it is quite easy, all multiclasses receive a number of spells based on their reference casting classes (mage or cleric) and then a number of slots is subtracted or added at certain levels which is defined in corresponding 2DA files in \3ed\SpellProgression, you can simply change them with any text editor and then reinstall the mod (you will need to start a new game though). Do not hesitate to ask if you have more questions?
Also just a side suggestion with weapon proficiencies - let mages use crossbows since those are simple weapons in Pathfinder. At least light crossbows anyway.
Proposed NPC class changes:
Baeloth - Change back to Sorc - He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would ever engage in melee.
Coran - Change back to Fighter-Thief - Being a thief is part of his whole shtick.
Dynaheir - Suggestion for new kit - an Oracle kit for Sorcerer. Otherwise keep her as a Diviner. I don’t think having three specialist mages in BG1 results in too much overlap and besides her and Edwin don’t get along anyway.
Eldoth - I think the changes you made to Jester make this *perfect* for Eldoth personality-wise.
Imoen - Change to vanilla bard. She seems like the kind of inspirational jack of all trades type. She might be a trickster type but she doesn't seem like someone with the temperament to use poisons.
Garrick - Change to Skald. He's super into heroic deeds and songs so it would make sense he would get really into character wading into combat.
Khalid - I think a Ranger actually fits his temprement much better and you don’t already have a single class Ranger slot taken up.
Minsc - New Kit - Barbarian Ranger which can be a psuedo-multiclass with Barb HP and raging but loses two weapon fighting, evasion, and druid spells. Otherwise I guess keep him as a Barbarian.
Shar-Teel - She’s a Berserker if there ever was one.
Quayle/Tiax/Viconia - Change them back to original classes. I think each of them has a pretty distinct flavor as the class they are and with the other suggestions there’s no overlap.
Skie - Maybe Fighter-Mage-Thief to reflect she’s had a wide range of training from an aristocratic background but is untrained in anything particular?
Yeslick - Undead Hunter. 3E makes Paladins no longer race restricted and he seems like he would work well as a paladin alternative to Ajantis.
Imoen in BG2 - So here’s the thing about Imoen in BG2… without her thieving skills the first level of the Irenicus dungeon is a huge pain. This almost makes her required as part thief if your own PC isn’t a thief. So Mage-Thief is probably what she has to be. If not for the opening dungeon I’d actually say she should be a pure Sorcerer to reflect her increased training in SoD and her divine blood. I actually might do that anyway and just make a multiplayer custom character thief that meets an unfortunate end after recruiting Yoshimo. Or you could move Yoshimo to the first level before thief skills are required (but you’d have to edit his dialogue to remove references to the mephit portal room... might not be worth it)
Nalia - Also I’d make her a Fighter-Mage-Thief. She’s like a more competent Skie.
Mazzy - Make Mazzy a Paladin. She so desperately wanted to be one in the base game but just couldn’t because 2e restrictions on non-human paladins were dumb af. Plus with high Dex she could fill a role of a ranged Paladin which would be kinda neat.
Jan - If we accept that Imoen has to be part thief then change him to a Jester to get rid of overlap. The jester song fits him very well since he’d be always confusing enemies by telling stories in combat. Otherwise his normal class of illusionist-thief fits well.
New Kit suggestions:
Kit for Ranger - BARBARIAN RANGER
Advantages:
Hit Dice increases to d12
Gains Rage as a barbarian
Disadvantages:
Does not receive two weapon fighting feats
Does not receive druid spellcasting
Does not receive Evasion
Kit for Sorcerer - ORACLE
Advantages:
Learns spells from the cleric spell list at levels 1-7 rather than mage spells (Maybe in addition to some mage spells? Not sure how level 8 and 9 spells would be handled, maybe just give them a limited selection of mage spells at these levels or create more divine flavored versions of them. Their spellcasting should be weaker in general than a regular Sorcerer because of their increased defenses).
Hit Dice increases to d6
Gains Cleric epic spells instead rather than mage spells
Gains AC bonus as a Monk but based on Charisma.
Gains Save bonuses as a Paladin/Jester
Disadvantages:
Does not cast arcane spells
NPC stat suggestions:
Ajantis - 15, 10, 14, 10, 15, 16
Alora - 10, 20, 11, 14, 9, 9
Baeloth - 11, 16, 12, 15, 10, 17
Branwen - 15, 10, 15, 10, 16, 13
Coran - 14, 19, 13, 11, 10, 15
Dorn - 16, 10, 13, 10, 14, 15
Dynaheir (if Oracle) - 9, 15, 10, 14, 9, 17
Dynaheir (if Diviner) - 9, 15, 10, 17, 9, 14
Edwin - 10, 10, 16, 18, 9, 10
Eldoth - 14, 15, 14, 14, 10, 15
Faldorn - 14, 14, 15, 10, 16, 11
Garrick - 14, 16, 15, 10, 9, 15
Imoen in BG1 - 9, 15, 12, 15, 11, 15
Imoen in BG2 if M/T - 9, 15, 12, 17, 11, 13
Imoen in BG2 as Sorc - 9, 14, 12, 15, 11, 18
Jaheira - 14, 14, 15, 11, 16, 10
Kagain - 16, 10, 19, 11, 10, 8
Khalid - 14, 16, 13, 10, 14, 9
Kivan - 14, 16, 13, 10, 16, 10
Minsc - 18, 15, 16, 8, 8, 9
Montaron - 13, 18, 15, 14, 9, 9
Neera - NO CHANGE
Quayle - 10, 17, 16, 17, 10, 8
Rasaad - 14, 17, 12, 10, 15, 10
Safana - 11, 17, 16, 12, 9, 13
Shar-Teel - 17, 17, 14, 10, 8, 10
Skie - 12, 15, 11, 16, 8, 10
Tiax - 10, 13, 16, 10, 16, 8
Viconia - 10, 17, 10, 12, 17, 13
Xan - 14, 16, 12, 17, 10, 9
Xzar - 10, 12, 14, 17, 9, 9
Yeslick - 16, 10, 17, 8, 16, 12
Yoshimo - 15, 17, 14, 14, 10, 11
Valygar - 15, 16, 15, 11, 14, 10
Nalia - 12, 15, 14, 16, 10, 11
Mazzy - 12, 18, 13, 10, 14, 11
Keldorn - 16, 8, 15, 10, 14, 15
Korgan - 17, 12, 19, 11, 8, 8
Jan - 10, 15, 14, 15, 8, 14 (trade up 2 int and 2 dex for 4 charisma if F/T)
Haer’dalis - 15, 17, 10, 16, 10, 14
Cernd - 10, 13, 13, 12, 18, 10
Aerie - 10, 18, 10, 17, 16, 13
Anomen - 17, 10, 15, 10, 14, 12 (Does his wisdom still get bumped to 16 if he successfully does his quest?)
Sarevok - 18, 16, 16, 15, 10, 12 (I think Sarevok deserves to have slightly OP stats)
Hexxat - 16, 20, 12, 18, 12, 15
Actually many of your propositions make sense (especially roleplaying wise) but some of them might create some balance issues
So what I propose is to make the following changes
Imoen - f/m/t in Bg1/Bg2 (I agree that jester is not ideal class for her roleplaying wise, same holds for Eldoth he might be probably as manipulative as jester should be but he uses more his charisma to influence people rather than playing a fool - so I think it is better to keep him as a blade)
Then Nalia in Bg2 can become a bard (which is probably goes well with her noble origin and the fact that she learned magic, although in DND 3.5 bards do not learn magic but get it for free as sorcerers, but we can assume that in ADnD they do)
Since we now have a thief in the beginning of BG1 I can probably change class of Khalid back to Fighter (making him a ranger together with jaheira will give you 2 characters with animal companions which I think is a bit too much, he can be cleric/ranger though since they do not get animal companions, but I'm not sure it fits him really well)
Then F/T can back go to Coran, and Kivan can become an Archer or a Stalker
Then I'm not sure about Shar-teel - she is aggressive but also cold-blooded in the same time - probably not a trait of a berserker (probably might be a f/m as her father Angelo, may be a sort of self-taught Hexblade)
Garrick is a coward so I do not really him as Raging Skald (although I believe that there is a banter with Minsc so proposes him exactly to fight like a berserker) so it is probably better to keep him as pureclass Bard
If Viconia is left is a cleric - she would be a very poor one in DND 3.5 due to her stats - dex is useless for priests, besides I believe that having spent a lot of time on the surface she learned how to hide and probably how to quickly kill those who have spotted her and leave no witnesses. Also with a shortage of thieves in BG2, i think adding her a thief class would make her much more valuable npc.
Same for Mazzy, with her stats she would be really poor paladin (it is also difficult to imagine her carrying a holy avenger which is probably as big as herself). Since kensai represents a sort of very dedicated warrior, it probably suits her personality well enough (besides it still allows to keep the idea that she aspires to be a paladin)
Quayle can become again a c/m since we will already have an f/m/t Imoen
The only problem is what to do with Tiax, since there is already one C/T, may be F/C/M (in the end why does he need to steal if he is going to rule?)
Still thinking to whom I could fit the sorcerer or battle caster in BG2.
The mod introduces already plenty of changes to classes and kits by making them closer to DND 3.5 or pathfinder and it has also it's own mechanics for druid/ranger animal companions, so it is very likely to be completely incompatible with the mods you mentioned. It has a modular structure though, so if you do not install animal companions component (which is supposed to be completely independent from everything else) from the mod you can theoretically try to replace it with other implementation. Also again theoretically nothing stops you from installing new kits before or after the mod, but I think they will not be properly balanced.