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Linux version of the toolset?

So any chance the toolset will get a real Linux version? It's been forever since I looked into it, and I think on standard nwn it still needed wine and jumping through a lot of hoops to get the toolset to work.

OnTheOtherHandRandomPerson
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Comments

  • ben0914ben0914 Member Posts: 9
    They Addressed this in the live stream they did today. It sounds like they would have to rebuild a lot of stuff to get it work natively in Linux, so looks like it will probably remain Windows only. I really hope they will at least officially support it running in Wine, and help fix issues, so it will play nice with Wine.

    RandomPerson
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Figures, just finally had time to watch the live stream. Well, hopefully they can make it easy enough to run with wine and at least ship the windows toolset binaries in the linux install to cut down on the amount of work to get it running.

  • SherincallSherincall Member Posts: 387
    At the moment, toolset doesn't run in wine (worse than 1.69). I did find it runs fine in VMware player Win7. And you do get all platform binaries when you download the game.

  • gra_ulvgra_ulv Member Posts: 5
    Yeah unfortunately we wont get that. Toolset was coded in C++ which means they'd have to basically start fresh and make a new one.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Yeah, this is the one thing that I dislike, and it is really cheesing me off. Why would you want Unix people developing tools and code? Why wouldn't you want Mac people developing graphics and sounds? It was a questionable decision back in the day, and it's a ridiculous one to perpetuate now. I know resources are never infinite, particularly for a small company, but still.

    OTOH, maybe I should just rewrite the damn thing in Java or Clojure or Gawk on Rails or whatever the kids are using today.

    Kamigoroshi
  • ShaidenShaiden Member Posts: 181
    Hey there tbone1!

    As was mentioned already, it would require quite extensive rebuilding to function in a reasonable level on Mac / Linux. If we do it, we want to do it right. However, as you stated above, resources are sadly not infinite.

    I'm not in charge of the scheduling, so I can't tell you if it's on the board or off the board at the moment, I can however say that we're cognizant of the request and desire. :)

    thryllkillJuliusBorisovtypo_tilly
  • OnTheOtherHandOnTheOtherHand Member Posts: 8
    edited November 2017
    Shaiden said:

    Hey there tbone1!

    As was mentioned already, it would require quite extensive rebuilding to function in a reasonable level on Mac / Linux. If we do it, we want to do it right. However, as you stated above, resources are sadly not infinite.

    I'm not in charge of the scheduling, so I can't tell you if it's on the board or off the board at the moment, I can however say that we're cognizant of the request and desire. :)

    Well, no one is saying resources would be infinite. But it is frustrating that Mac and Linux users have to pay the same price as Windows users even though we'll be getting less. If Mac and Linux users pay the same price, we should get the same functionality.

    Sorceror
  • LiluraLilura Member Posts: 148
    gra_ulv said:

    Yeah unfortunately we wont get that. Toolset was coded in C++ which means they'd have to basically start fresh and make a new one.

    Well, Borland C++ Builder to be specific.

    ZoltanTheRedDethangels_Shadow
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    tbone1 said:

    Yeah, this is the one thing that I dislike, and it is really cheesing me off. Why would you want Unix people developing tools and code? Why wouldn't you want Mac people developing graphics and sounds? It was a questionable decision back in the day, and it's a ridiculous one to perpetuate now. I know resources are never infinite, particularly for a small company, but still.

    OTOH, maybe I should just rewrite the damn thing in Java or Clojure or Gawk on Rails or whatever the kids are using today.

    I feel ya man, all my tools and preferred environment are setup in Linux. Even though I keep a windows install just for games that don't run on Linux, it's a pain using it, since it goes against my work flow. When you spend all day managing Linux boxes and writing code and scripts to run on them and manage them, it just makes sense for me to stick to Linux as much as possible.

    I get that with the limited resources a small company like beamdog has, a full rewrite isn't a possibility, but hopefully they can do something to help run it in wine.

    So I somehow missed the original NWN right when it came out, but then they made a Linux client and it made all the Linux news sites. So I started thinking, I should check this game out, and that's how I got hooked on neverwinter nights. The Linux version of the game's been a mess for awhile (I think it might've gotten sorted more recently), so I'm looking forward to at least seeing the game running out of the box on modern Linux distros.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited November 2017
    There's some hope that they could get it working better in Wine. I think that's the most we could expect.

    RandomPerson
  • rybernrybern Member Posts: 1
    I'd just like to add my vote that a Toolset in Linux should be a priority. I would love to contribute mods again, but it's not worth switching back to Windows.

    So, port to Linux or open source the existing Toolset (or a sufficient subset of it) and let us work on it.

    typo_tillyRandomPersonSorceror
  • MeepoMeepo Member Posts: 1
    FWIW, I managed to get the GOG version of the NWN Diamond client and toolset both running on my Mac using PortingKit (http://portingkit.com/en/). The toolset seems to be just as functional/stable as on Windows, although I haven't had time to do much more than block out some maps so far. Given that PortingKit is basically just a modified Mac version of WINE, it shouldn't be impossible to get it running on Linux, either.

    typo_tillytbone1
  • meaglynmeaglyn Member Posts: 99

    At the moment, toolset doesn't run in wine (worse than 1.69). I did find it runs fine in VMware player Win7. And you do get all platform binaries when you download the game.

    The toolset works pretty well in wine for me. It throws the occasional error popup trying to rebuild the tree on the left at times but it keeps working when I click through those. I use it all the time.

    ShadowMtypo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    I wonder if there's anything they could do to make it run any better in Wine? I've read mixed things about the editor working on Linux.

    RandomPerson
  • nivniv Member, Moderator, Developer Posts: 408
    Hello,

    wine is not something we're supporting right now. Fixing the breakage it sees now is a lot of detail work, filled with workarounds. We're still looking into other options (but that's all really - just looking), so we're not focusing on fixing something that's essentially a hack.

    Unfortunately, that means the current/new toolset doesn't really run in wine. The 1.69 build runs okay-ish as some people report, but the new one is not usable. The obvious culprit is the graphics engine improvements.

    If anything happens in this space, we'll make sure to shout it from the rooftops (or at least in the patchnotes).

    JuliusBorisovtypo_tillymlnevese
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    I hate to nag, but it might be possible to push off some/most of the work to the wine developers. Beamdog could reach out to them to see if there's any easy stuff that could be done to help get it running in wine and maybe offer them some free keys for head start so they can work on it. Maybe you guys have already discussed this internally, just thought I'd throw the idea out there.

    RandomPersontypo_tilly
  • meaglynmeaglyn Member Posts: 99
    niv said:

    Hello,

    wine is not something we're supporting right now. Fixing the breakage it sees now is a lot of detail work, filled with workarounds. We're still looking into other options (but that's all really - just looking), so we're not focusing on fixing something that's essentially a hack.

    Unfortunately, that means the current/new toolset doesn't really run in wine. The 1.69 build runs okay-ish as some people report, but the new one is not usable. The obvious culprit is the graphics engine improvements.

    If anything happens in this space, we'll make sure to shout it from the rooftops (or at least in the patchnotes).

    This may may EE a non-started for some of us. I can't see how I could move my server to it if I can't run the toolset anymore.

    DrHappyAngryRifleLeroysquattingmonk
  • nivniv Member, Moderator, Developer Posts: 408
    Hearing you loud and clear.

  • meaglynmeaglyn Member Posts: 99
    Thanks niv. Yeah, it looks like the wine openGL implementation is a bit lacking. As long as you don't open an area the toolset works fine :)

  • PlasmaJohnPlasmaJohn Member Posts: 27
    How hard would it be for you guys to port the area editor into an IDE like NetBeans?

  • nivniv Member, Moderator, Developer Posts: 408
    "port" is a misconception. It would basically mean rewriting the toolset for whatever platform we want to target.

    NetBeans of all things is a really unlikely target though.

    tbone1
  • PlasmaJohnPlasmaJohn Member Posts: 27
    edited November 2017
    I'll admit I'm not as familiar with NetBeans as I was with Eclipse but adding a 3d-editor to the latter is not out of the realm of the possible. I assume that NetBeans has similar support.

    Maybe "port" was the wrong word. AFAICT the sticking point -is- the area editor but there are other pain points with the toolset, specifically the overuse of modality. Migrating the area editor and model viewers to a standard IDE would address many of those issues.

    Yes I know it's a ton of work but if you're mucking with the 3d engine you're already in the thick of it anyway.

  • TondenTonden Member Posts: 219
    I like Linux far more then Windows, So I really would like the new toolset to be able to run using Wine.

    Please Look into this at some point. Help Linux so more people wont be forced to use windows for 90% of everything.

    Dethangels_ShadowSpanner_ManVivienneL
  • tjohn104tjohn104 Member Posts: 10
    I would imagine it would be based off how many EE copies they sell and what number of those people use linux...

    Cost/Profit ratios matter. This is a company after all. :(

  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    Pipe dream I know but I would love to see an Android version of the toolset.

    Would be great to work on my PW on the morning commute.

    Atrophiederic
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    edited December 2017
    If it were made a generic *nix, that would lower the bar for bringing in Apple people as well. Just sayin' ...

  • TondenTonden Member Posts: 219
    Well "Android is a mobile operating system developed by Google, based on the Linux kernel"

    So if we could get it on Linux then who knows :wink:

  • Spanner_ManSpanner_Man Member Posts: 1
    meaglyn said:

    Unfortunately, that means the current/new toolset doesn't really run in wine. The 1.69 build runs okay-ish as some people report, but the new one is not usable. The obvious culprit is the graphics engine improvements.

    If anything happens in this space, we'll make sure to shout it from the rooftops (or at least in the patchnotes).

    Beamdog can always work with Crossover - the commercial supporter of the wine project in regards to getting it working under wine.

    typo_tillyVivienneL
  • VivienneLVivienneL Member Posts: 52
    I'm disappointed that the toolset is not working in wine so I guess we'll have to continue building the games in 1.69 and play them in the Enhanced Edition.

    typo_tilly
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Tonden said:

    Well "Android is a mobile operating system developed by Google, based on the Linux kernel"

    So if we could get it on Linux then who knows :wink:

    A decent chunk would be done, getting it in a more open system than borland and whatnot, but android is pretty different from a full fledged Linux distro. Sure it has the same kernel, but a lot of the tools and the userland behavior is pretty different.

    I'm just curious, you'd really use a tablet to try and create content on? I just can't picture doing stuff without a keyboard. I guess some of it might be OK, but I can't imagine trying to script on a touch screen being anything but sisyphean task. I'm not putting you down, just genuinely curious if you think you can really get by on a touch interface for content creation. If you can't tell, I'm a guy that insists on a mechanical keybaord and uses vim B)

    typo_tillyVivienneL
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