multi Fighter-Mage: melee vs. ranged weapons
Lemernis
Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
For a multi-class Fighter-Mage (mine will be half-elf but this poll applies more broadly to all available races) what is your preference for combat style and why?
- multi Fighter-Mage: melee vs. ranged weapons88 votes
- Melee - Sword and Shield7.95%
- Melee - Dual-Wielding43.18%
- Melee - Two-Handed Weapon13.64%
- Ranged Weapons - Bow25.00%
- Ranged Weaons - Crossbow0.00%
- Ranged Weaons - Darts or Sling2.27%
- Other (explain)7.95%
0
Comments
In BG2, dual wielding. Big damage with Improved Haste and 10 apr and near impossible to hit when buffed correctly.
In BG1 ranged rocks and is super effective. BG2 not so much, plus by then your melee is powerful enough for you to steamroll things easily 'specially if you are dual-wielding.
Mainly ranged at start. Maybe ranged/melee at mid game. And dual-wield at last when spell protections/THAC0 are decent.
My PC almost always dual wields an axe and a bastard sword now, but I occasionally have him use a longbow if the opponents are difficult enough that they would otherwise be able to quickly kill him.
And by the time one reaches ToB it's going to be dual-wielding, as the highest level opponents break into laughter at arrows, IIRC.
So I suppose the strategy for the long haul would be dual wielding.
Just for a BG:EE game alone, the archer route might be pretty satisfying though.
Also the off-hand bonuses of dual wielding in BG2 are too good to miss e.g. Extra attacks or extra spells or immunities/regen etc. and as a multi class it's not like you can dump 5 pips into a single weapon.
The problem with dual-wielding, though, is that it's less than optimal for BG1, if you want to set yourself up for BG2 in BG1, as have limited proficiency points to play with, though I guess there's nothing to stop you using a shield when you feel the need for more protection, even when putting points into dual-wielding
Sword and shield gives a chance of spell failure, because I use the tweak 'allow spellcasting in (heavy) armour', that enables spellcasting in armour with a chance of spell-failure. A medium shield gives 5% chance of failure, a large shield 10%, if I remember well.
BG1
Lvl 1:
Long Swords ++
Axes ++ (mostly for the throwing ones, though I realise you don't get any returning magic ones until late in BG1)
Lvl 3 & 6
Two Weapon Fighting ++ (to avoid penalty on main hand at least)
BG2
Lvl 9 & 12
Two weapon fighting +++
Scimitars + (putting Belm in off-hand, mostly to get an extra attack with main hand)
Lvl 15 & 18
Katanas + (mostly for extra spells from Dak'kon's Zerth Blade)
Scimitars ++
Lvl 21 & 24
Katanas ++
Staves? +
I may swap the order in BG2 around a bit, not quite sure what's best here.
Would still have the option of using a shield when I want and even long/composite bows in BG1, as with high Dex, the elf +1 THAC0 bonus and the +1 THAC0 long bow bonus (more with magic bows/arrows, espc. the long bow of marksmanship) will still hit quite often , as fighters only get -1 THAC0 for not having a proficiency in a weapon.
It's just that most bows and arrows are pretty useless in BG2, as magic long/short bows nor arrows don't add any +x damage in BG2 (unlike BG1, and unlike crossbows and slings in BG2, strangely) and later enemies are immune to most arrows, also my main archer will be given the only bows really worth using (e.g. Gesen), so seems like a waste of proficiencies long term., especially as I'll be using melee weapons and/or spells much of the time in BG2. Crossbows might be worth it, though.
Axes are also the only missile weapon (apart from one sling) to add Str damage to hits, and can be used with a shield. I'll be evil, though, so will miss out on Azuredge. Will be taking Dorn rather than Kagain in BG1 (though may have to use Kagain initially) so hopefully won't have another NPC who'll need the best axes
Does this look reasonable, or is this crazy talk? The other build I'm considering is based around two-handed swords, two-handed fighting and staves, which looks better in BG1, but weaker in BG2
However once you get, say, half-way through BGII, there are plenty of items that can bring your AC nice and low and by that time you will have plenty of protective spells. So meleeing becomes a legitimate option at that point.
Besides, it's pretty easy to assume you'll probably have a dedicated frontliner in your party. Let them do their job. Fighter/Mages are better off supporting from the side for a long time.
Of course, you don't have many spells available at lower levels, but you can also don heavy armour when low on spells, or when its not worth casting spells for an encounter. What I've been doing in my current BGT game is to always scout ahead with my thief (Montaron in this case) and then can usually decide ahead of time whether to put on my plate mail (which is a valid option in many cases, if not needing to use spells) or to go the spell buff route.
I tend to use "Shield" much more than "Armour", the latter lasts a long time, yes, but its weak and, if you scout ahead, you don't need to cast "Shield" (or other buffs) until its really needed. Well obviously in BG1 (or even BG2, perhaps) you shouldn't have your fighter/mage as you main tank, that's what Kagain/Dorn/Minsc is for, let them take the bulk of the melee damage, but as an "off tank" damage-dealer, they can still have a strong role to play.
Look, I get it. The entire world thinks I'm retarded for playing Fighter/Mage the way I do. I know you're not trying to be antagonistic, and I'm not mad at you in the slightest, but fuck's sake I was scared to even make a post here for fear this would happen. I shouldn't be scared to say "this is how I play Fighter/Mage, I think it's fun and works well in a party formula." Seriously.
That said,
1. Yeah, you don't get Blur until how late? Fairly late honestly. That's my problem; it takes a fair time in BG1 to level to Mage 3 while multi-classed, and on top of that it takes time to actually FIND the scrolls of Mirror Image and Blur. Once you have those, you're right as rain. But acting like that is "in the very beginning" is a lie. You won't get there for a while.
2. Agreed Shield is awesome and underrated.
3. Also, I'm going to be honest, I might be a bit of a metagamer but I'm breaking those habits and the whole "switching armor" shenanigan is kind of stupid, I'm not going to lie.
4. I'm beginning to loath the term "off tank." It basically goes like this: 'hey my character is super good at melee.' 'really? is his AC good?' 'no it's terrible' 'then he's not a very good tank' 'yes he is an off-tank my other characters kite the big scary monsters and he sits around on the side smacking things. man my character is SO badass.'
With the ranged option, I think of how satisfying it is to use Kivan or Coran. The bow is king in BG1. I forget how many attacks per round one gets with 18(+) Strength and a Composite Longbow but I know enemies drop like flies to a masterful archer in BG1.
As for spellcasting, granted, other mages in the party can target enemy spellcasters/strongest meleers with incapacitating spells. But if the F-M is primarily responsible for casting those spells, that frees up the other mages more to cast disabling area-of-effect spells first, and individually targeted spells second. So I envision the archer F-M targeting individual enemies with spells like Spook, Blind, Hold, Slow, Contagion and then plunking arrows into them. That, to me, is a very strong synergy between spellcasting and martial combat, @Shin.
I would definitely enjoy that. A lot.
On the other hand, the play-style I had already pictured for my F-M of dual-wielding swords and trying to cast select spells in the thick of frontline combat feels like a fun and interesting challenge, and it's sort of beckoning me...
For me the reason I'm interested in the melee approach (be it two-handed swords, dual wield or sword and board) is that it plays to the strength of this class combo with the self-buffs and touch spells etc. and its fun! If I want to play a spell-user that casts from the back I'll play a straight Mage or a dualed fighter or Thief>Mage.
But, in answer to your responses: Agreed, though Level 3 comes actually comes around relatively quick (and is certainly possible before the bandit camp, for example), and in the meantime there's plate mail or Shield spell. Indeed, I forgot to add, it also makes you immune to magic missile! I can see what you're saying, if you know there's an encounter around the corner and you're not even scouting, but I don't think its metagaming at all to always have a scout out in front when traversing unexplored areas to warn you of encounters, so that you can prepare for it appropriately. But its common sense to send your highest HP/AC (not necessarily highest damage-causing) character in first, as this is the one the enemy will target most of the time in melee, Kagain, for example, is practically built for this role (at least once you give him the Dex gloves). I think sending a dual-wield or two-handed sword-wielding F/M in second as a major damage-dealer is still pretty badass :-)
About changing from 2H to 1Hx2 I think it's feasible though borderline. Anyway, I think it will still not be possible to carry both 2H and 1OH weapons.
The trouble with fighter/mage is that until you get some really good armor/equipment that also allows you to cast spells you are likely to be very vulnerable in melee especially against multiple enemies and in BG1 at least that makes it quite late in the game unless you go out of your way to get stuff that technically you should not know where to find. ;-)
Using the best ranged weapons available to you (bow for my money) however allows you to do decent damage from range which also allows you to conserve your spells (less forced resting) and have less issues with vulnerability while doing so.
Choosing elf (over half-elf) of course would add another +1 to your bow prowess too IIRC and while it's certainly possible to switch to melee at some point I can see no real compelling reason to do so - if you are in melee range when you try to use a spell you have a much better chance to be interrupted and for BG1 levels you just don't have enough spells to waste any.