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Kickstarter for Baldur's Gate 3 please

Umar_SlobberknockerUmar_Slobberknocker Member Posts: 19
edited November 2017 in Baldur's Gate III
Dear Beamdog,

It's time to get going on BG3. Get a Kickstarter going and make it happen.

If Obsidian can get enough backers to be working on PoE2... you guys can get enough backers to get BG3 going.

Make it happen.

StummvonBordwehr
«13

Comments

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Pillers of Eternity is much improved, especially in the White March expansion. You just need to aoid the endless paths.

    Deadfire looks to be even better, having shaken off more of the GenericFantasyland(TM) trappings.

    ThacoBellkanisatha
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,199
    I'll with @Fardragon on every point except the endless paths. Its a fun dungeon romp.

    kanisathaEnialusMeliamne
  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 404
    If anything, I think the "this is a HUGE dungeon" aspect worked against the paths. Had it been broken up into several different dungeons in different locations, folks wouldn't feel as intimidated by it. But when you think "so... *how* many levels of dungeon am I going to play?" then it sounds less like a wonderful mystery and more like *work*. But I still came away happy - the first step was the hardest.

    Fardragon
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 265
    I don't think people would get the "feel" of baldurs gate from a BG3. They tried that in PoE, and honestly I didn't enjoy that game one bit. The games that really pull me in are the game that are similar to baldurs gate that avoid doing anything that seems like an imitation of it. Mass Effect and witcher trilogies, xcom 1 and 2 etc.

    It is actually simpler to capture the BG feeling than you might think, and it doesn't involve imitation. Any game that is really good at companions or games that continually give the player meaningful decisions and have early to mid to late stage enemies that require entirely different tactics to defeat from each other.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The thing about Baldur's Gate is it sticks very closely to the Hero's Journey metaplot (the monomyth). Compare the plot to Star Wars for example. This makes it feel comfortable and familiar. When a game deviates from the monomyth it can take some players outside their comfort zone, and opinions become more divided, even when the gameplay elements are very similar to Baldur's Gate. PST, SoD, MotB, TToN, Tyranny and PoE are all examples of this.

    UnderstandMouseMagicBelgarathMTHZilber
  • thruddthrudd Member Posts: 96
    How about Icewind Dale 3? or Something new in the HUGE forgotten Realms Universe!!!!

    Nimran
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBellNimrankanisathakillerrabbit
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,199
    edited November 2017
    I always tackled the endless paths as if each level was its own self contained dungeon with it own story. Because that's what they are. It did in segments as I went through the game as well, instead of all at once.

    @unavailable " Any game that is really good at companions or games that continually give the player meaningful decisions and have early to mid to late stage enemies that require entirely different tactics to defeat from each other. "

    You like *edit* MEAN what Pillars of Eternity did? ;)

    Post edited by ThacoBell on
    kanisatha
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBellFardragonkanisatha
  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 79
    edited November 2017
    I was so beyond hyped for PoE, and so utterly disappointed when I got to play it. I will be fair, if it didn't tote itself as a spiritual successor to Baldur's gate I would probably judge it less harshly but they did so thats on them. I don't think its the perfect ex syndrome either. PoE just wasn't a good game and even if I didn't compare it to Baldur's gate it still doesn't even come close to any games that I have loved over the years (Strangely most of them were made by Bioware before they got bought out by EA and by Blizzard before they "merged" with Activision makes you wonder).

    killerrabbit
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    DrakeICN said:

    The only PoE contender to BG feel is KOTOR.

    .

    That goes back to what I was saying earlier. The thing BG and KotOR have in common with each other, but not those other titles, it they are both hero's journey stories.

    Everyone likes the hero's jouney, deviate from that (e.g. KotOR2, another Avallone story) and opinion becomes sharply divided.

  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    edited November 2017
    Fardragon said:

    DrakeICN said:

    The only PoE contender to BG feel is KOTOR.

    .

    That goes back to what I was saying earlier. The thing BG and KotOR have in common with each other, but not those other titles, it they are both hero's journey stories.

    Everyone likes the hero's jouney, deviate from that (e.g. KotOR2, another Avallone story) and opinion becomes sharply divided.

    Agree to disagree. Well, I have to agree that both BG and KOTOR have semi-linear story progression, and, for instance, Witcher have, while a linear story, a much more open world. But I still do not think that is it.

    I think KOTOR2 also have the same feel as BG. It is more than just story. The frequency of encounters, the number of monsters in encounters, the frequency and utility of loot, the way combat works etc.

    For instance, there are plenty of JRPG:s with hero's journey and they do not have a BG feel at all. Lufia comes to mind. And isnt NWN a hero's journey?

    So, no, story alone does not give it BG feel.

    Edit: And Avadon, the black fortress. VERY semi-linear, but no BG feel at all.

  • RedrakeRedrake Member Posts: 424
    A rhetorical question. Why do people like to talk about what BG3 would be like and should be like, if the the work on BG3 cannot even start because of the IP issues?

    Beamdog cannot even start working on a new game placed in Forgotten Realms, which is off-limits for everyone, until WotSC says so. Even books are no longer scheduled to be written and published in this setting, until WotSC makes their movie.

    So, please people, don't expect Beamdog to move the skies and make your dreams possible. You'll only end up disappointed. SoD sparked a large scandal and not because of the introduction of trans characters, but because it was basically an add-on and not really a mod. Bemdog threaded a very thin line there on the IP issues. Don't expect that to happen again. Especially on grander scale.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2017
    DrakeICN said:

    Fardragon said:

    DrakeICN said:

    The only PoE contender to BG feel is KOTOR.

    .

    That goes back to what I was saying earlier. The thing BG and KotOR have in common with each other, but not those other titles, it they are both hero's journey stories.

    Everyone likes the hero's jouney, deviate from that (e.g. KotOR2, another Avallone story) and opinion becomes sharply divided.

    Agree to disagree. Well, I have to agree that both BG and KOTOR have semi-linear story progression, and, for instance, Witcher have, while a linear story, a much more open world. But I still do not think that is it.

    I think KOTOR2 also have the same feel as BG. It is more than just story. The frequency of encounters, the number of monsters in encounters, the frequency and utility of loot, the way combat works etc.

    For instance, there are plenty of JRPG:s with hero's journey and they do not have a BG feel at all. Lufia comes to mind. And isnt NWN a hero's journey?

    So, no, story alone does not give it BG feel.

    Edit: And Avadon, the black fortress. VERY semi-linear, but no BG feel at all.
    No, NWN is not a "hero's journey" story. The protagonist is a hero at the start, they do not get called away from an "ordanary life". There isn't a mentor figure (Nasher is just an employer), they do not go through apotheosis (e.g. discovering you are a Bhaalspawn//Revan/son of Vader) and so on. The Witcher is the same: the protagonist is a bad-ass monster hunter at the start, and they are still a bad-ass monster hunter at the end.

    It's not about how linear/non-linear the story is, it's about the stages the central character passes through.

    ThacoBellRAM021BelgarathMTH
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 265
    edited November 2017
    Fardragon said:

    DrakeICN said:

    Fardragon said:

    DrakeICN said:

    The only PoE contender to BG feel is KOTOR.

    .

    That goes back to what I was saying earlier. The thing BG and KotOR have in common with each other, but not those other titles, it they are both hero's journey stories.

    Everyone likes the hero's jouney, deviate from that (e.g. KotOR2, another Avallone story) and opinion becomes sharply divided.

    Agree to disagree. Well, I have to agree that both BG and KOTOR have semi-linear story progression, and, for instance, Witcher have, while a linear story, a much more open world. But I still do not think that is it.

    I think KOTOR2 also have the same feel as BG. It is more than just story. The frequency of encounters, the number of monsters in encounters, the frequency and utility of loot, the way combat works etc.

    For instance, there are plenty of JRPG:s with hero's journey and they do not have a BG feel at all. Lufia comes to mind. And isnt NWN a hero's journey?

    So, no, story alone does not give it BG feel.

    Edit: And Avadon, the black fortress. VERY semi-linear, but no BG feel at all.
    No, NWN is not a "hero's journey" story. The protagonist is a hero at the start, they do not get called away from an "ordanary life". There isn't a mentor figure (Nasher is just an employer), they do not go through apotheosis (e.g. discovering you are a Bhaalspawn//Revan/son of Vader) and so on. The Witcher is the same: the protagonist is a bad-ass monster hunter at the start, and they are still a bad-ass monster hunter at the end.

    It's not about how linear/non-linear the story is, it's about the stages the central character passes through.
    Geralt was the hero only until the game switched things around and made it about ciri. Spend the first game knowing absolutely nothing because of the amnesia. Gets his memory back at the end of witcher 2 where it turns out that ciri who we see in training at kaer morhen vanishes. We see in cut scenes that she is being hunted, and with some help from geralt and the mysterious elf winds up becoming the hero of the story.

    You might note that the witcher became a hell of a lot more popular by the third part when it became a heroes journey.

  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Redrake said:

    A rhetorical question. Why do people like to talk about what BG3 would be like and should be like, if the the work on BG3 cannot even start because of the IP issues?

    Beamdog cannot even start working on a new game placed in Forgotten Realms, which is off-limits for everyone, until WotSC says so. Even books are no longer scheduled to be written and published in this setting, until WotSC makes their movie.

    So, please people, don't expect Beamdog to move the skies and make your dreams possible. You'll only end up disappointed. SoD sparked a large scandal and not because of the introduction of trans characters, but because it was basically an add-on and not really a mod. Bemdog threaded a very thin line there on the IP issues. Don't expect that to happen again. Especially on grander scale.

    And thats the problem right there. WotSC are going to lose massive market shares, just like Apple and Sony, by being stingy with their IPs. Or that crap system that was to be Fallouts system, but thank God it never was, because they also threw a hissfit about their IP.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Redrake said:

    Beamdog cannot even start working on a new game placed in Forgotten Realms, which is off-limits for everyone, until WotSC says so. Even books are no longer scheduled to be written and published in this setting, until WotSC makes their movie.

    Where are you getting this from? Source please. Tales from Candlekeep was just released and it is set in the Realms. Yes you obviously need WotC's permission, but there is no embargo on using the Realms in a game.

    killerrabbit
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Fardragon said:

    The thing about Baldur's Gate is it sticks very closely to the Hero's Journey metaplot (the monomyth). Compare the plot to Star Wars for example. This makes it feel comfortable and familiar. When a game deviates from the monomyth it can take some players outside their comfort zone, and opinions become more divided, even when the gameplay elements are very similar to Baldur's Gate. PST, SoD, MotB, TToN, Tyranny and PoE are all examples of this.

    It's much easier to read about a character and identify them than to play as a character and identify with them.

    BG relies on and allows a massive amount of input from the player.

    The story becomes secondary to some extent when you are organising your charname and party to fight a battle, you are not thinking about where the story is going to end up, you are focused on surviving.
    Books/stories simply don't have that input from the "user".
    More to the point, that don't have to even consider that aspect. The story will go where it is already written by the author, the input from the reader/user has no effect.
    Other than it making it a bestseller or not.

    So, although I agree with you to some extent, I don't think it's about the "hero's journey" so much as about a story where the "user's" input becomes central.
    Very hard path to balance.

    killerrabbit
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    BG3. You have to play as Jan, who settles down in Baldur’s Gate. He uncovers an evil plot to take over the turnip market, which coincidently completely mirrors what the iron throne did. The man behind the plot is using it as a thinly veiled excuse to kill Jan. The game ends with an amazing finale in Bhaal’s temple, because it was converted into a turnip storage facility.

    All fans will be happy because it will mean replaying BG1 with a high level PC against high level enemies with the world hanging in the balance.

    ThacoBellkillerrabbittbone1
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The stages in the hero's journey are independant of the character of the hero. And it is perhaps the (often subconscious) familiarity of the story that creates a sense of freedom - since the stages are predestined you can reach them any way you like.

    But these things must always happen in Baldur's Gate, no matter how you play:

    The Ordinary World

    The Call to Adventure

    The mentor

    Crossing the threshold

    Tests, allies, and enemies

    Apotheosis

    Decent into the Underworld

    Ascension




    ArdulBelgarathMTHDJKajuru
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    Every time someone mentions BG3, Bhaal kills a kitten.

    ThacoBell
  • Contemplative_HamsterContemplative_Hamster Member Posts: 844
    edited December 2017
    And that kitten would probably one of his own balls-pawns, too, because Bhaal would totally do a dick move like that to a descendant. It's not like he is likely to run out of spawn anytime soon, the way he carried on.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    kanisatha said:

    Redrake said:

    Beamdog cannot even start working on a new game placed in Forgotten Realms, which is off-limits for everyone, until WotSC says so. Even books are no longer scheduled to be written and published in this setting, until WotSC makes their movie.

    Where are you getting this from? Source please. Tales from Candlekeep was just released and it is set in the Realms. Yes you obviously need WotC's permission, but there is no embargo on using the Realms in a game.
    @Redrake Same question. You've made this claim more than once. Like many of the things said about the license agreement this seems to be a case where something gets mentioned on an online forum, people repeat it and it becomes true because the internet.

    Without a link to WotC and/or dev post this is looking like an internet rumor.

    Fardragonkanisatha
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