when to dual Immy to mage

Lemernis

I don't normally dual Imoen to mage, but I think in my first BG:EE game I will. At which Thief level would you all recommend I dual-class her to Mage? Thanking you in advance.

Abel

This one's difficult. I think it depends on what you want (thief skills, backstab).
As a general rule I advise against dual-classing late. In that case I see 3 possibilities:
- DC at 3: 2.5k+10k (8% of 161k) to reactivate
- DC at 4: 5k+20k (16%), +1 skill point
- DC at 5: 10k+40k (31%), -1 THAC0, better Saves, +1 backstab
I can't recommend one or the other because again it depends of what you want to achieve and what you'll have in your team.

moody_mage

I max traps and locks so dual at around level 6. You could probably skimp a bit on both of those and so dual over at 5.

Canon Imoen duels over at level 7.

Phælin

Never.

Abel

@decado dual @6 is way to late. What will you do to disarm/unlock for the next 60k XP needed to reactivation?

moody_mage

Dual at 6 is fine, you can manage easily enough if you pick your areas. BG isn't that hard after all.

Marric

Abel said:

@decado dual @6 is way to late. What will you do to disarm/unlock for the next 60k XP needed to reactivation?

Pick up Coran, or really any of the other thieves

I found 4 to be a good level to dual her at. I'm fairly certain that give her enough theify points in pick lock/find traps to take care of stuff throughout the game. You might need the occasional potion, but that's what they're there for, right? And if you bee-lined to the Nashkal mines, then went right to the bandit camp, you can take care of both of those and just about hit level 4 with her (six person party). Than you've got a bunch of wilderness areas to explore/side quest to do with less need for a theif, to get her thief level back before hitting Cloakwood (or you can just pop in and grab Coran).

moody_mage

A nice alternative to this is to dual Shar-Teel into a thief around the same time. I love dual-classing

ptonda

I'm with @Abel. LV 6 is too late. The point to dual Imoen, IMO, is to have a mage who can also act as a thief so that you can just forget about 'thieving needs' and recruit more firepower in the group. LV 4/5 seems ok to me, depending on if you're willing to spend gold on some potions to open the tougher locks or not.

In fact, if you put all the points in open locks, you could just dual at 3 and take the damage of all the traps in the game with one character. Or simply get a mage and forget about all thieves in the game, haha.

moody_mage

That's fine, we can disagree

I'm a hoarder so I don't like using potions and I don't like having potential failure chances, so 6 is around when I would duel although 5 is also good for me.

Disagree with the mage can do everything comment, Knock is well and good but I prefer to spend 2nd level spell slots on more useful spells. Likewise they can't detect and remove nasty traps which is why I want 100+ in detect traps (especially in Durlags Tower).

Oxford_Guy

Abel said:

@decado dual @6 is way to late. What will you do to disarm/unlock for the next 60k XP needed to reactivation?

Use Safana?

Shin

As Abel said, it depends on what you want and whether Imoen gets rewritten in BG2:EE no matter what you do. Personally I never dual a thief until they're maxed in pick lock and disarm traps, as I feel it makes them unable to reliably perform the basic thief tasks in the long run (much like Nalia). If you dual Imoen before that she'll basically remain thief-wise gimped forever (much like Nalia), unless you count on the BG2 transition to modify your decision.

Oxford_Guy

Shin said:

As Abel said, it depends on what you want and whether Imoen gets rewritten in BG2:EE no matter what you do. Personally I never dual a thief until they're maxed in pick lock and disarm traps, as I feel it makes them unable to reliably perform the basic thief tasks in the long run (much like Nalia). If you dual Imoen before that she'll basically remain thief-wise gimped forever (much like Nalia), unless you count on the BG2 transition to modify your decision.

Yes, I've wondered about that, will Imoen always start in BG2 the same, or will you be importing her (and other BG1 NPCs) as they've progressed in BG1, like with BGT? Would make a big difference to when I dual NPCs and who gets to use the Stat-increasing Tomes...

Imoen will definitely need 100% in at least find traps and open locks for BG2...

Oxford_Guy

BTW I usually take two thieves (both multi or dual classed) in BG1, a utility one (e.g. Imoen, Safana) and a stealthy/backstabby one (e.g. Monteron), but the latter does not usually have enough points in open locks/find traps to fill in for Imoen when going through her initial mage levels, so I sometimes bring in Safana or Coran

jmanreis

I have often thought about this and decided not to do it. I was looking for continuity with BG2 and how she is dual-classed there. Now I just figure that she set off on her own adventures after the events of BG1, leaving the thieving life behind for a pursuit of magic. The intro to BG2 leaves open the possibility that enough time has passed for something like that to happen.

Shin

@jmanreis In does, but it's not a perfect solution as you can get her up to 10 thief levels in BG whereas she'll still only have 7 in BG2.

jmanreis

Maybe all that torture/experimentation affects her thieving abilities and strengthens her magic.

Greenman019

Am I the only one who never dual classed Imoen? I always hack-remove it in BG2 as well.

I do however always play a mage in BG, maybe I don't another NPC stealing mah thunder (Edwin never had a place either)

jmanreis

I think many people did. Having her dualed in BG2 was probably the lesser of 2 evils. It is easier to come up with an explanation as to why she is dualed in BG2 for someone who didn't dual her in BG1 than it is to explain how someone who dualed her in BG1 now has a straight thief in BG2.

stygga

Dualing at 6 seems late, but by that time you start getting XP VERY FAST and level Imoen in a matter of hours of play. It allows her to maximize her thief levels and still max out (level 9) her mage abilities. I picked up coran in the last full game I ran through and used him to do locks and traps while she was still leveling. It's really over quickly as that late in the game the experience just keeps coming.

Mungri

I doubt that she was dualed for any lore or story purposes, rather than simply having had the stats for it. However in BG2 Imoen has far fewer thief points than she shouldhave which is annoying.

Lemernis

Greenman019 said:

Am I the only one who never dual classed Imoen? I always hack-remove it in BG2 as well.

I do however always play a mage in BG, maybe I don't another NPC stealing mah thunder (Edwin never had a place either)

Actually, I had gotten into the habit of hacking her into a Bard (via Level 1 NPCs), which I much preferred for her personality. I haven't played game now in 4-5 years, but mage-thief never quite felt right to me for her either. I'd either leave her as a Thief or convert her to Bard.

sepotter

My brother recommends LVL 7, sometimes I just don't at all though.

allhailsteve

I was considering dualling her too. I never have before so I thought it might be interesting but the more I thought about it the more I thought it was a bad idea - Imoen is the only thief I take through the whole game so her thieving skills are more important to me.

SapphireIce101

In Vanilla BG, I try to get Immy to 100% lock picking, and trap searching before I dual her, and I always carry a backup thief just in case.

With BGT it depends, sometimes I wait until I can get a back up thief, or wait until BG2 and pick up another thief. This time though, I waited until I got Yoshimo, dualed her, she got kidnapped, and when I got her back, she was a 21st level thief. I was like "....Okay then.."

Mechalibur

Last game I played, I dualed her at level 6. I already had Safana in the group, so she took care of the thieving. Once Imoen got her levels back, Safana was dropped for Kivan. If you dual class her, you end up with a better late game team, since you don't need a theif slot (Imoen makes a decent mage), but the middle game gets a bit more challenging. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it.

Keeping her a thief the whole game also works, especially if you want to level up more than just her trap finding and lock picking.

LordsDarkKnight185

I never dual her. I have always considered her mage levels and lessened thief abilities in bg2 as the result of Irenicus's experiments.

Quartz

Well, you can dual her any time Levels 2-6 and get up to Mage Level 9. This maximizes her abilities as a magic-user.

Alternatively you can dual her at Level 7 and get to Mage 8. This maximizes her Thieving abilities while still ending with her being a good Mage as well. That said, obviously it takes quite some time to regain those Thieving skills.

So basically

Thief Lvl 2-6/Mage Lvl 9 for best magic-user
Thief Lvl 7/Mage Lvl 8 for best thieving skills and still being a pretty good mage

I personally go with Thief Lvl 5/Mage Lvl 9 because regaining the Thieving abilities is a little less painful that way. Or more often, keep her a Thief. But that's me.

mlnevese

When to dual her actually depends on how BG2EE will work. If it works like BGT, you really should consider dualling her on level 7 when you reach 100% in both pick locks and find/remove traps, unless you have the intention of having other thief in your group.

LordsDarkKnight185

mlnevese said:

When to dual her actually depends on how BG2EE will work. If it works like BGT, you really should consider dualling her on level 7 when you reach 100% in both pick locks and find/remove traps, unless you have the intention of having other thief in your group.

Because of current contract, in bg2ee Imoen will have to begin exactly as she does in vanilla bg2

RavenX

Maybe I'm the wierd one but I always kept her as a pure Thief maxing lockpicks and traps.