Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been announced! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to pre-order, apply for the Head Start and check for details. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Best crazy EEkeeper multiclass options

I'm nearing the end of my custom party LoB/SCS run so now theres not much left to do that I haven't done. I might try out some mods but I was wondering some fun EEKeeper multiclass combos that I could try. I would modify existing npcs since its been somewhat boring having silent party members. Was wondering if any had good ideas, I was thinking fighter/shadowdancer half-orc for my pc but it might suck come ToB. Any ideas? I was thinking making jahera a fighter/avenger

bleusteel
«1

Comments

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 75
    Hello @therdre, Fighter/Avenger is powerful and a good idea, especially because of those mage spells which are of better use than the druid spells at lower levels, as there aren't really any good offensive spells there in the level 1-4 druid spell list. The Spider form as well as the other avenger forms are far better and useful than conventional druid shapeshifts.

    I was once tinkering a lot with EEKeeper, and came out with some illegitimate class combinations, but those were fun to play. Mostly I added kit abilities of other classes from the "innate" tab, because many combinations are not possible otherwise from the "characteristics" tab.

    Some ideas:
    • Fighter dual classed to Sorcerer
    • Inquisitor/Mage multiclass (Make Fighter/Mage and add Inquisitor kit abilities from "innate tab". The problem is, you'll have to repeat this step for every level up.)
    • Mage or Bard with the Dragon Disciple kit
    • Ranger dualled to Mage (if you like free two weapon fighting, besides it's a nice idea: a wandering woodland wizard)
    • Kensai/Thief multiclass (for high damage at high levels which is not possible with the dual class version)
    • Shaman with Shapeshifter kit (perhaps this is a crazy idea)
    • Cleric dualled to Monk (a few buffs can make the Monk more dangerous)
    • Kensai dualled to Assasin (keep the "kit" in the "characteristics" tab as "Assassin" and add Kai from "innate" tab)
    • Thief (9 or 10) dualled to Fighter/Mage/Cleric (if this works, you won't need anybody else)
    • Monk with Inquisitor abilities (add the latter from "innate" tab)
    • Monk with Shadowdancer kit (Death from nowhere. You might add "Stat: Backstab [263]" from the "effects" tab and set suitable parameters (that is, increased backstab multiplier) there for greater fun.)
    These are some of the feasible class combinations that EEKeeper allows. Some might be overpowering, but that is the reason they were not allowed in the un-modded game. I had more ideas, but most probably they can't be implemented via EEKeeper, like a Dark Moon Monk/Sorcerer, Druid/Mage, and so on.

    bleusteelDev6SkatanProont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    I EEKeepered a F/M/T and gave it the ShadowDancer class. Incredibly fun and possibly broken. F/M with the Kensai kit is hilarious as well.

    bleusteel
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 303
    Fighter/swashbuckler multiclass w/grandmastery has been fun. Kinda like playing a blender with chunks flying everywhere :smiley:

    ThacoBell
  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 78
    All seem amazing. I've been trying out some stuff in BG1 I made Jahera a Berzerker/Druid, my pc a barbarian/cleric (so amazing) and kalahid a Fighter/Shadowdancer. I made minsc a ranger too which in itself is just op for bg1. I'll have to try the swash/fighter and the monk with shadowdancer sounds dirty

  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 72
    Kensai/Swash throwing things...
    Kensai/illu gnome
    Ranger/cleric of lathender
    Barb/Druid half orc
    <3

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 408
    edited December 3
    Souplesse said:

    Kensai/Swash throwing things...

    only one kit can be active so thats a nono unless someone can break the game engin ?

    Half Orc- Kensai-Mage, Fighter/Shapeshifter , F-M-Swash,
    Human - 13Fighter/Swashbuckler

  • QueegonQueegon Member Posts: 326
    edited December 3
    Neera - Wild Sorcerer
    Minsc - Berserker
    Anomen - Fighter/Cleric of Helm
    Nalia - Bard
    Valygar - Archer (NI his equipment to allow archer)
    Hexxat - Fighter/Assassin
    Mazzy - Cavalier
    Yoshimo - Kensai or Thief/Kensai ("KAAI...tourists love that stuff")
    Jaheira - Fighter/Avenger (Avenging Khalid all day long)


    PC - Half-Orc Fighter 7/Necromancer with 5 pips in slings and 19 STR (link). That was really fun casting all those Fingers with save throw penalties and slinging through enemies.

    or Dwarven Paladin is my favorite.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794

    Souplesse said:

    Kensai/Swash throwing things...

    only one kit can be active so thats a nono unless someone can break the game engin ?

    Half Orc- Kensai-Mage, Fighter/Shapeshifter , F-M-Swash,
    Human - 13Fighter/Swashbuckler

    The op is specifically asking about EEKeeper shenanigans. Its fun to see what kind of crazy character building one can do. I once made a Paladin that had all the strengths and weaknesses of a Cavalier and an Undead Hunter.

  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 78
    edited December 3
    I have to say now that Khalid is level 5 shadowdancer fighter/shadowdancer multi is really fun. I'm not sure how well it would hold up in bg2 though. Minsc as an archer has just as many kills as my barbarian/cleric. I'm playing on insane as much fun as my LoB runs have been I don't think ill do them again I feel like scs on insane is a good difficulty level. Are there any other mods that could complement scs on insane in bg2?

  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member Posts: 76
    Wait a second, that's actually possible to do? I have been wandering for a while if I would be "legitimately" able to create some Multi class with a Paladin. Still, if I put a multi class with any Paladin, am I able to wield Carsomyr? My God-like CHARNAME feels very limited by his weak ass Fighter Mage. Also, Multi Class into any 3 classes with Mage and Paladin? I need to know how to become a "legitimate" God! Pm or reply to this with how to do this!!! I need UNLIMITED POWER!!!!

  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 360
    ThacoBell said:

    I EEKeepered a F/M/T and gave it the ShadowDancer class. Incredibly fun and possibly broken. F/M with the Kensai kit is hilarious as well.

    Played both - it IS amazingly OP :) Should say M/T-Assassin is not that OP (as those two) but gave me the most Baalspawn vibe (C/T-Sin would be even better but then you have to throw in "remove weapon restriction" because Assassin with clubs is a nonsense).

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 285

    Shaman with Shapeshifter kit (perhaps this is a crazy idea)
    I seriously need to try this one lol.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    Dev6 said:

    Shaman with Shapeshifter kit (perhaps this is a crazy idea)
    I seriously need to try this one lol.
    I editted my Shapeshifter claw so it's usable by any class and works as an offhand weapon, effectively just have to give the Werewolf/Greater WW forms to any class via EE Keeper and anything can be a Werewolf. Also tweaked the claw to give +3 Str/dex/con rather than fixed stats, but did remove the +45 hp's bonus. So yeah, it's relatively easy (Nearinfinity + EE Keeper) to do this :)

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    Keeping it to one kit and no outright shenanigans, because one kit is PnP legal and therefore totes legit:


    Swashbuckler/Mage - By ToB cap: -6 AC, +5 to hit, +5 damage, gets full backstab (and yes, the +5 damage is multiplied on a backstab), but no Whirlwind Attack (gets Assassinate instead).
    As it has a kit: +1 spell slot per level.
    tl;dr: F/M/T with a little less fighter, and a little more M/T.

    Fighter/Shadowdancer - Gets full thief skills and full backstab while still getting HiPS (but no shadowdancer HLAs, just regular thief ones. No idea how HLA traps works on a shadowdancer, might be like the bard and auto succeed).
    tl;dr: Shadowdancer is boringly overpowered no matter what it's paired with.

    Fighter/Wild Mage/Thief - The biggest downside of the F/M/T is slow spell progression. NRD spits on this limitation.
    tl;dr: Nahal's everything.

    Barbarian/Druid - Lose the D12 Hitdie (D10 instead), but a multiclass can't do more than specialise anyway, so the B/D gets 20% DR + 40% Hardiness + 25% Armor of Faith + Backstab immunity + movement speed + Rage for +4 Strength/Con that a Druid otherwise would have trouble getting, while still getting the three overpowered druid spells that justify the class.
    tl;dr: A very angry, very tanky, treehugger.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,798
    @Pantalion swashbucklers can't backstab. Why would swashy mage be able to.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829

    @Pantalion swashbucklers can't backstab. Why would swashy mage be able to.

    Essentially because pure Swashbucklers use the "Swashbuckler kit" progression table, while Magebucklers use the "multiclass" progression table (specifically, the Mage/Thief progression table).

    This means:

    No unusual weapon specialisations (no specialisation for multiclass swashbucklers, for example, they use the M/T progression table aka 1 proficiency pip only)
    No kit specific HLAs (no shadowdancer HLAs, just basic mage/thief ones)
    No backstab penalty (swashies/shadowdancers advance at the standard rate)
    No thief skill penalty (everyone except swashbuckler still gets 25 skill points)
    No hitdie changes (Barbarians)

    So thief kits generally have no downsides and retain most of their upsides.

    Also for mages anything with a kit on either part of the multiclass gets +1 spell slot/level and a -2 save malus to their "school". For non-mage kits, that's the NONE school of magic, such as, if I recall correctly, "Set Snare".

    So yeah, multikit Thieves are pretty badass, and Swashbuckler/Mages are probably one of the few things even better than an illusionist/thief.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    If you assign the kit in EEKeeper, it should work as intended. Meaning specialization and no backstabs.

  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 78
    I'm assigning the kits in shadowkeeper and they are working as they normally do (I.E. no higher backstab multiplier with shadowdancer)

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    Swashbuckler:



    Shadowdancer:



    Both EE Keepered, obviously. Note the version number and the fact that I'm using a half-elf, because I sacrifice for my mod reviews.

    But yeah, seriously though, a Shadowdancer should have x2 at that level, Swash should always be x1, and while I'd far prefer if it gave specialisation and whirlwind attack instead of backstab and assassination, it's been an enduring engine issue since the original SoA.

    While you might be able to manually add the proficiencies and replace the HLAs, unless you're using mod kits that are specifically designed to work around the issue you're going to have full backstab progression and full skill point progression.

    SkatanProont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    @Pantalion Did you add the kit effects from the effects tab in EEKeeper?

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    ThacoBell said:

    @Pantalion Did you add the kit effects from the effects tab in EEKeeper?

    Sure did. Note that the Shadowdancer has +10 Hide and Move over the Swashbuckler, and that I'm a lazy cuss and left the swashbuckler's kit effects on as well, so if there were any effects that alter backstab or skills per level the Swashbuckling Shadow Dancer should have an x0 backstab multiplier. There aren't, by the way, though there are mods that try to work around multikit issues with effects.

    It also applies if you start either and then turn them into a multiclass with level 0 mage. The moment you switch it to the M/T progression table it will operate as a kitless mage/THIEF, and a kitted MAGE/thief with a specialist school of NONE.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't match my experience.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    From what i have found you only get ALL the effects of a kit when you go the single class/dual class route, multi-class will tend to add in all the positive kit effects, but not all of the negative ones will work due to the engine over-writing kit negatives with pre-designed multi-class features. There's also a quirk with Wild Mage "kit" only working properly if you import or create a character as a Wild Mage, simply adding the kit at a later date will usually fail to apply the caster level +- 5 modifier and not implement the wild surge chance on non-Nahal's castings.

    Of course it gets super-complicated when you factor in Mods, but with some willingness to use mods and EE Keeper it is possible to apply multiple kits to 1 multi/dual class character, but in almost all cases you will need to periodically update the bonuses with EE Keeper as only 1 will be able to be selected at a time and automatically improve as you level.

    Few things i note will not work properly:

    Multi-class Kits with special HLA selections will not work for those HLA's, they will instead draw from the standard HLA selection. Example Shadowdancer kit on a Multi-class character will not get the clones, just standard multi-class HLA choices.

    Wild Mage as mentioned above only works if you create or import as a Wild Mage, you can create a Wild Mage, EE Keeper it into say a fighter, level it up, then later on dual class to a Mage, then Keeper Wild Mage back, that works, but if you didn't make it as a Wild Mage originally it will not get wild surges or level mods merely by adding the kit in EE Keeper at a later date. You will also need to keeper in +1 spell slot per caster level, that won't apply if you keeper Wild Mage onto a mage that has dual classed from something else, since that is not legal w/o mods/keeper. Note that picking gnome will apply, correctly, the slot mods as the game will automatically flag the gnome mage as an Illusionist.

    The game engine is pre-set with a list of valid class combinations, you cannot break those combo's with EE Keeper. This means no Paladin/Sorc/Monk multi or dual class options. I mean yes you can add in Paladin abilities and spells to say a fighter, but it'll have the XP gain rate of a fighter and features like turn undead will not work, plus the class will be flagged as a fighter so you can't use paladin specific items.

    Lastly it *should* be possible to write a mod to simulate "illegal" class combinations, but you would need to be extremely adept at coding and take some creative measures to get around game limits.

  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 78
    I found a guide that told me to set hp to 1 and level/experience to 0 then when I open the game they level up to 1 and it gives them their kitted abilities. I'm not sure if your doing it a different way? It does seem like HP is sometimes lower than it should be so I've had to edit that after leveling them up.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    therdre said:

    I found a guide that told me to set hp to 1 and level/experience to 0 then when I open the game they level up to 1 and it gives them their kitted abilities. I'm not sure if your doing it a different way? It does seem like HP is sometimes lower than it should be so I've had to edit that after leveling them up.

    If it's just 1 kit per toon that will work, but the majority of kits will be fine if you just select the kit in EE Keeper then manually add in the abilities to match your level. Just note that multi-class toons that get assigned a kit will use default HLA tables for their multi-class and NOT for the kit, so you may miss out on things like the Clones HLA from Shadowdancer kit.

    The 1 HP, level 0 trick is useful to save you having to go to the 2 other tabs in EE Keeper and adding in the kit abilities, it also gets around the fact that you cannot actually add in level 1 abilities for kits in EE Keeper, you actually need to add in a minimum of level 2 due to the way it's designed.

    PantalionProont
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    ThacoBell said:

    I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't match my experience.

    You can tell me you took the not-even-five minutes to keeper a multiclass to check, then provide a screenshot and list of installed mods, if any. Basic common sense?
    Borek said:

    Lastly it *should* be possible to write a mod to simulate "illegal" class combinations, but you would need to be extremely adept at coding and take some creative measures to get around game limits.

    Going to take a moment to plug the very talented @subtledoctor's Might and Guile mod here, which has things like Ranger/Mage and Ranger/Thief, though multiclass APR progression is still hardcoded, and sadly nobody has yet found a way to Dual Fighter 13 into a Mage/Thief multiclass, which makes me sad.


    Also, the level 0 1 HP trick predates the "add kit" function of Keeper, it used to be the only way to get the level 1 abilities of a class back in the bygone days of yore.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    @Pantalion dude, for like 6 months every class I made was an eekeepered multiclass kit. The only reason I don't screenshot is that it doesn't work on my computer. Yes I know HOW. But for some reason it won't, I've had multiple people try to do it and my computer refuses to screenshot anything.

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 285
    @ThacoBell offtopic but this will help you, install ducklink. :)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,794
    I doth not use a mac. Thanks for the attempted assist though.

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 285
    It works for both Windows and Mac. If you use Linux then may God have mercy on your soul.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.