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what are some obscure tips you know of in this game?

I recently found that bard songs luck bonus can be a defense against pretty much anything, but unlike the mage spell does not improve thieving skills.

Comments

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    Invisible Party members or familiars can block in enemies for you to wreck with missile/spell fire.

    Luck spell cast after Improved Alacrity and just before damaging spells can add significant damage.

    Acid Arrows can make Mage/Lich fights extremely trivial, even with SCS, just kite out their weapon protections and even a non-proficient fighter using Tuigan will be able to prevent them casting many of their spells. Note that for some reason Chaos and Confusion will rarely be interrupted, so be warned lol.

    On the subject of mage killing always pays to carry at least 1 non-magical weapon so you can wear out stoneskins when non-liches cast PFMW.

    Last point on spell casters is "The Brick" from the half orc wild mage at Neeras Hidden Refuge is amazeballs Vs casters.

    Aerakar
  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 246
    Borek said:



    On the subject of mage killing always pays to carry at least 1 non-magical weapon so you can wear out stoneskins when non-liches cast PFMW.

    Hint: use darts. they have an insanely high base attacks per round of 3.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217

    Borek said:



    On the subject of mage killing always pays to carry at least 1 non-magical weapon so you can wear out stoneskins when non-liches cast PFMW.

    Hint: use darts. they have an insanely high base attacks per round of 3.
    yeah darts are decent, but i will usually have the same or more APR with melee and darts are not really worth the proficiency points to get more. Also very large drawback is darts will not get past protection from normal missiles, which most mages will cast along with PFMW, meaning non-magical melee is all that can damage their stoneskins w/o breach cast. Dart's definitely have their moments, but in my experience there's better options 99% of the time.

    sarevok57SkatanAerakar
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116
    edited December 7
    Borek said:


    Luck spell cast after Improved Alacrity and just before damaging spells can add significant damage.

    Luck doesn't increase magical damage done, it decreases magical damage taken. Although it does increase physical damage done while not decreasing physical damage taken (oposite to magic).

    You need to apply -LUCK modifier on enemies for better damage. For instance chant or wish intoxication.

    Pantalion
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    Myrag said:

    Borek said:


    Luck spell cast after Improved Alacrity and just before damaging spells can add significant damage.

    Luck doesn't increase magical damage done, it decreases magical damage taken. Although it does increase physical damage done while not decreasing physical damage taken (oposite to magic).

    You need to apply -LUCK modifier on enemies for better damage. For instance chant or wish intoxication.

    Luck also adds +1 to minimum damage, so any 1's rolled become 2's, it adds up when you are throwing around multiple damage spells.

    ThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,332
    When characters get to high level, they often perform well in things not associated with their tasks.

    Aerie, for example, can be a tremendous front-liner if you have time to buff her properly. Wielding Crom Faeyr, with the Shield of Harmony, the Helm of Vailhor (apologies for spellings), and with her access to cleric and mage spells, she can tank against some nasty stuff ... for one combat. But she can be game-creakingly good for that combat.

    And then there is Jan, an illusionist/thief, wielding his crossbow and flashers, then putting web, haste, and polymorph self (spider) into a spell trigger.

    ThacoBellAerakar
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    Luck affecting magic is easy to verify.

    1) Get a bard.
    2) Make the bard sing.
    3) Shoot the bard with magic missile ten times.

    A) If Luck increases and decreases magic damage, then the expected damage range for magic missile will be 2-5 per missile, no matter how high level the bard is. (Your shooter's luck and your bard's luck will always be equal, adding and lowering damage at the same rate).

    B) If Luck does not increase magic damage, then the expected damage range for magic missile will be 2-4 per missile, decreasing as the bard gains levels. (though the shooter and the bard have equal luck, luck only decreases magic damage taken, not magic damage dealt).

    Next, summon a hostile Bard and cast "Chant", and then shoot him with ten magic missiles before they manage to sing.

    If Chant's decreased luck increases enemy magic damage taken, then the expected damage range for magic missile will be 3-5 per missile.

    If Chant's decreased luck and increased luck both apply, then the expected damage range for magic missile will be 4-5 per missile.


    Finally, for lulz, have the first bard drink until they're completely ratfaced, then shoot them some more, and observe the damage from magic missile. It should be maximum 5 damage every missile.

  • SeigmoraigSeigmoraig Member Posts: 13
    edited December 7
    Always use Protection from Evil 10ft, all the time, everything you fight is evil. Will also make you immune to the Pit Fiends which you will encounter once in a while or if you summon it from Gate spell

    If you're character is feared, casting protection from fear will remove the effect. Can be kind of annoying to use though if your character is running around because he can run out of the effect area, so make sure the caster is relatively close to the target so the spell effect has less distance to travel before detonating.

    Best thing for Mind Flayers and such is Chaotic Commands, it will render the target immune to mind controlling effects. Chaotic Commands will also protect you from Maze spells which are really annoying.

    Death Ward will protect you from insta death spell from Beholders and high level mages.

    Dragonspearsarevok57ThacoBellGreenWarlock
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,128
    Using a Scroll of Protection from Magic on an enemy caster (including, to the best of my knowledge, Kangaxx and Irenicus) utterly trivializes the fight as they become unable to cast any spells for the duration, leaving you free to whack them to pieces.

    sarevok57ThacoBellPantalionQueegon
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116
    edited December 7
    Borek said:

    Myrag said:

    Borek said:


    Luck spell cast after Improved Alacrity and just before damaging spells can add significant damage.

    Luck doesn't increase magical damage done, it decreases magical damage taken. Although it does increase physical damage done while not decreasing physical damage taken (oposite to magic).

    You need to apply -LUCK modifier on enemies for better damage. For instance chant or wish intoxication.

    Luck also adds +1 to minimum damage, so any 1's rolled become 2's, it adds up when you are throwing around multiple damage spells.
    It doesn't. It only adds +1 to physical damage rolls not magic.

    Tested it moments ago with bard casting luck on sorc just to be sure. Still rolled 2 damage few times with magic missile which is minimum. You need -LUCK modifier on enemy to increase magic damage stated before.

    There was huge thread about it while ago where @semiticgod and other people explained luck in detail.

    Source: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/61569/luck-what-it-is-and-how-it-works/p1

    semiticgodsubtledoctor
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    Myrag said:

    Borek said:

    Myrag said:

    Borek said:


    Luck spell cast after Improved Alacrity and just before damaging spells can add significant damage.

    Luck doesn't increase magical damage done, it decreases magical damage taken. Although it does increase physical damage done while not decreasing physical damage taken (oposite to magic).

    You need to apply -LUCK modifier on enemies for better damage. For instance chant or wish intoxication.

    Luck also adds +1 to minimum damage, so any 1's rolled become 2's, it adds up when you are throwing around multiple damage spells.
    It doesn't. It only adds +1 to physical damage rolls not magic.

    Tested it moments ago with bard casting luck on sorc just to be sure. Still rolled 2 damage few times with magic missile which is minimum. You need -LUCK modifier on enemy to increase magic damage stated before.

    There was huge thread about it while ago where @semiticgod and other people explained luck in detail.

    Source: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/61569/luck-what-it-is-and-how-it-works/p1

    hmm, then it doesn't work as the spell description indicates, i just loaded up my latest character and it quite clearly states spell damage is supposed to be improved.



    Note i am not saying you are wrong about how it works in game, i'm just saying that what you are saying does not match the spell description.

    Pantalion
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116
    edited December 8
    Borek said:

    ...
    Note i am not saying you are wrong about how it works in game, i'm just saying that what you are saying does not match the spell description.

    Yep of'course no worries :smile: a healthy discussion between the two gamers who love BG series here.

    Quick note, actually description says that "a 6d6 fireball will do 6d5 damage" so it says it will do less damage. In the past I was wondering about this myself, I thought it will reduce my damage done actually but what it doesn't say it is about damage taken, not dealt.

    Indeed the description seems to be wrong. I would say it's vauge rather than wrong. Since if you think about it +LUCK is giving opposite effect to -LUCK. Therefore from second part of description where it states that you take less damage from spells, that means that you take extra damage from spells if you get -LUCK modifier on yourself. Since -LUCK does increase your damage taken if you apply it on enemy then your they will take extra damage from your spells.

    Same goes for physical damage done. If you get +1 to minimum damage roll then in order for you to take less physical damage from enemies a -LUCK must be applied on them. This is why I love Mage/Cleric and FMC combos for instant chant in minor sequencer. Not only I deal more damage but I also take less damage +1 LUCK on me from chant and -1 LUCK for enemies is amazing.

    -LUCK modifier is best for spells which hit multiple of times for mutiple D rolls. Like flame arrow, at high level you shot like 5+ arrows each dealing 1d6 piercing and 4d6 fire damage. So CHANT effectively boosts your damage by about 15-20% on spell that already deals around 20d6 (all arrows combined) at lvl 20 so not bad (in IA you cast 6-7 of them in millisecond for hundreds of damage). It is also pretty brutal for weapons which apply dice rolled elemental damage since then it gives +1 to physical roll and +1 to magic damage roll.

    Post edited by Myrag on
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 217
    The 6d6 changing to 6d5 is mentioned after stating +1 to minimum damage, so it's actually 6d5+6, but sadly that part of the spell doesn't appear to be working as others have mentioned.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116
    Borek said:

    The 6d6 changing to 6d5 is mentioned after stating +1 to minimum damage, so it's actually 6d5+6, but sadly that part of the spell doesn't appear to be working as others have mentioned.

    Yep, well as I said it's pretty vauge to me but I guess there is limit to how much you can explain is such short tooltip compared to how compilcated the LUCK really is.

    Also description aside I actually wonder if it is how they state because adding 1 to minimum damage roll isn't the same as lowering maximum dice.

    If fireball does 6d6 damage then you have 6 times split of 6 possible dice sides (1,2,3,4,5,6) making it average 3.5 x 6 = 21 damage on average per fireball.

    so scenario #1 +1 to minimum rolls
    6d6 fireball with +1 added to minimum rolls on d6 dice means distribution of 2,3,4,5,6,6 making it average 4.3(3) damage so 26 average per fireball.

    now for scenario #2 reducing dice size but adding +1 damage overall
    6d5+6 means distribution of 1,2,3,4,5 with average of 3 rolled 6 times +6 base = 24 damage average per fireball.

    This is simply because with 6d5+6 best case damage scenario is when you roll 5,5,5,5,5 and add 6 damage so 31 damage fireball is max. By adding +1 to minimum roll of 6d6 best case scenario of rolls is 6,6,6,6,6,6 so 36 max damage. Where worst case scenario for first is 1,1,1,1,1+6 = 11 damage and for second 2,2,2,2,2,2 = 12 damage.

    From the linked conversation I think it was @Lord_Tansheron or @semiticgod who explained that luck in fact adds/substrats from rolled number rather than remove dices which would be scenario #1 but I think without access to source code we can't verify which one it is.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,988
    Borek said:

    The 6d6 changing to 6d5 is mentioned after stating +1 to minimum damage, so it's actually 6d5+6, but sadly that part of the spell doesn't appear to be working as others have mentioned.

    No, it is not intended to work that way. The description is vague, but accurate (but vague):

    "The recipient receives a +1 bonus to ... attack rolls ... and damage rolls." Full stop. Then, separately: "Furthermore, damage dice outside a weapon's base damage is reduced by one."

    1) The first clause is vague, but the +damage being next to the +thac0 suggests that it only affects damage relating to thac0 (i.e. weapon attacks).

    2) The second clause is indeed very vague, but the spell is meant to help you, not hurt you, so the only reasonable way to read it is that incoming damage is reduced.

    3) Maybe the only non-vague part of the description is where it states that the damage reduction does not affect damage from weapons.

    So to be clear: Luck gives you +damage on outgoing weapon attacks, and -damage on incoming spell attacks.

    Negative Luck does the opposite. So the only way to have a full +1 to all rolls for you and -1 to all rolls for enemies is to simultaneously have +Luck for you and -Luck for them. Which is what Chant does. (Also some of my modified bard songs :wink: )

    StummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • SintrielSintriel Member Posts: 1
    edited December 8
    Myrag said:

    Borek said:


    so scenario #1 +1 to minimum rolls
    6d6 fireball with +1 added to minimum rolls on d6 dice means distribution of 2,3,4,5,6,6 making it average 4.3(3) damage so 26 average per fireball.

    now for scenario #2 reducing dice size but adding +1 damage overall
    6d5+6 means distribution of 1,2,3,4,5 with average of 3 rolled 6 times +6 base = 24 damage average per fireball.

    This is simply because with 6d5+6 best case damage scenario is when you roll 5,5,5,5,5 and add 6 damage so 31 damage fireball is max. By adding +1 to minimum roll of 6d6 best case scenario of rolls is 6,6,6,6,6,6 so 36 max damage. Where worst case scenario for first is 1,1,1,1,1+6 = 11 damage and for second 2,2,2,2,2,2 = 12 damage.

    Nonsense. 6d5+6 means you are rolling 6 dice with 5 sides. In your example you are comparing 5d5+6 to a 6d6. you should be adding one more 1d5 into your equation, resulting the maximum damage remaining the same whether you use 6d5+6 or 6d6. while minimum damage is increased by 6 when using the former.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,829
    As far as I'm aware, the Luck effect doesn't modify the die range at all, but rather adds a bonus that respects the minimum and maximum range of the result.

    +1 Luck: 1D6 becomes 1D6+1 but not more than 6. Possible outcomes: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6.
    -1 Luck: 1D6 becomes 1D6-1, but not less than 1. Possible outcomes: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

    This is why crit miss and crit hit chance are unchanged, because the die is still a D20, just with a conditional +/- bonus.

    Also, +1 Luck and -1 Luck combined (enemy chant, friendly bard): 1D6 becomes 1D6.

    AerakarsemiticgodMirandelGrond0
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,446
    Sintriel said:

    Myrag said:

    Borek said:


    so scenario #1 +1 to minimum rolls
    6d6 fireball with +1 added to minimum rolls on d6 dice means distribution of 2,3,4,5,6,6 making it average 4.3(3) damage so 26 average per fireball.

    now for scenario #2 reducing dice size but adding +1 damage overall
    6d5+6 means distribution of 1,2,3,4,5 with average of 3 rolled 6 times +6 base = 24 damage average per fireball.

    This is simply because with 6d5+6 best case damage scenario is when you roll 5,5,5,5,5 and add 6 damage so 31 damage fireball is max. By adding +1 to minimum roll of 6d6 best case scenario of rolls is 6,6,6,6,6,6 so 36 max damage. Where worst case scenario for first is 1,1,1,1,1+6 = 11 damage and for second 2,2,2,2,2,2 = 12 damage.

    Nonsense. 6d5+6 means you are rolling 6 dice with 5 sides. In your example you are comparing 5d5+6 to a 6d6. you should be adding one more 1d5 into your equation, resulting the maximum damage remaining the same whether you use 6d5+6 or 6d6. while minimum damage is increased by 6 when using the former.
    So that's what that (6d5) means.

    Thanks, always wondered. :)

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116
    edited December 8
    Hey @Sintriel, you are correct in what 6d5 means, but this is exactly what I said too

    I said,
    Myrag said:

    "6d5+6 means distribution of 1,2,3,4,5 with average of 3 rolled 6 times +6 base = 24 damage average per fireball. "

    So its exactly the same. Single roll of 6d5 is 1d5 which means all possible roll results set consisting of 1,2,3,4,5. So a single roll averages at 3, then you roll it 6 times for total average of 18 dmg.

  • unavailableunavailable Member Posts: 246
    edited December 9
    So minor sequencer luck x2 followed by chain contingency horidwilting x3 is about one of the most damaging combinations? It 60d8+2 ought to average 390 area of effect damage? or 450 with clerics chant added on top of that, but that is well past redundant on anything less than legacy of bhaal mode and I think a single horrid wilting would at least get everyone near death with that much luck.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 116

    So minor sequencer luck x2 followed by chain contingency horidwilting x3 is about one of the most damaging combinations? It 60d8+2 ought to average 390 area of effect damage? or 450 with clerics chant added on top of that, but that is well past redundant on anything less than legacy of bhaal mode and I think a single horrid wilting would at least get everyone near death with that much luck.

    Not really. If you read above 1. luck doesn't stack with itself 2. you need -LUCK on enemy not +LUCK on yourself so a cleric Chant spell will increase ADHW damage but luck spell wont.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,430
    You can use talk-blocking to rotate neutral characters since the character in question will turn to face the talk-blocker, making it easier to land a backstab on them. One of the Guardians in Firkraag's dungeon has his back against the wall and therefore can only be backstabbed at the start of combat if you first rotate him.

    sarevok57ThacoBell
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