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Disagreement with the proposed 4th class

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  • ProontProont Member Posts: 141
    edited December 2017
    @Anduin I mostly played NWN on multiplayer servers so XP penalties weren't a big deal. For the OC and community made modules build planning would be key. I also tended to go for prestige classes as soon as I could.
    Malclave said:

    "Suddenly I have Wiz3/Rog3/Fig3/Mon1

    I have an xp penalty of -20% from the difference of two levels between the fighter and the monk and then another -20% from the two level difference between the rogue and the monk. The wizard being a favoured class of gnomes is ignored. I'm know where near being able to take a prestige class... -40% xp penalty is horrible"

    That should only be a 20% penalty; you shouldn't be getting the penalty for Monk more than once. Similarly, the subsequent examples shouldn't be taking as much in penalties as you describe. If the game is calculating the penalty from both Rogue and Fighter in your example that should be fixed (not at home atm so can't check).

    I just checked my 3.5 Player's Handbook (I don't have time to dig out my 3.0 Player's Handbook) and Anduin is correct. The NWN wikia agrees. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Multiclass_penalty I'm not sure if that's how NWN is coded for XP penalties or if the wikia just copy-pasted from the Third Edition rules.

  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 402
    You know XP penalty is an optional rule. Lot of multiplayer server uses custom XP calculation formula excluding XP penalty.

    It will be fairly easy to disable 4th class if anyone wanted, so I see absolutely no harm in adding it.
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    In terms of the table top game it's non optional but there are many rules including that one which ppl choose to ignore. I wouldn't say it's better or worse to use or ignore a rule but it will change the tone of the game.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    edited December 2017

    I think your math is wrong on what the XP penalties would be.

    It is incorrect.

    Your turn then. Show me how I am wrong.

    EDIT: @Proont did me proud. Ignore.
  • PaddyMaxsonPaddyMaxson Member Posts: 28
    I'd say the only reason you shouldn't have 4 classes is:

    -It's very time consuming to implement and thus steals time from other features which might be more important to more people.

    Why?:
    -If you don't want to use 4 classes then don't.
    -It isn't unfair to people on PWs/in multiplayer because everyone can have it.
    -It allows more build diversity
    -Opens up more complex potential prestige classes such as Mystic Theurge and Arcane Trickster which require two base classes to prestige into and thus become very rigid without further multiclass options

    Now, it's previously been stated in a stream that the major issue is a User Interface issue. Given that one of the most popular suggestions is a new UI, you'd hope that maybe this is quite a small addition given the scope of a whole new UI
  • MalclaveMalclave Member Posts: 47
    Proont said:

    @Anduin I mostly played NWN on multiplayer servers so XP penalties weren't a big deal. For the OC and community made modules build planning would be key. I also tended to go for prestige classes as soon as I could.

    Malclave said:

    "Suddenly I have Wiz3/Rog3/Fig3/Mon1

    I have an xp penalty of -20% from the difference of two levels between the fighter and the monk and then another -20% from the two level difference between the rogue and the monk. The wizard being a favoured class of gnomes is ignored. I'm know where near being able to take a prestige class... -40% xp penalty is horrible"

    That should only be a 20% penalty; you shouldn't be getting the penalty for Monk more than once. Similarly, the subsequent examples shouldn't be taking as much in penalties as you describe. If the game is calculating the penalty from both Rogue and Fighter in your example that should be fixed (not at home atm so can't check).

    I just checked my 3.5 Player's Handbook (I don't have time to dig out my 3.0 Player's Handbook) and Anduin is correct. The NWN wikia agrees. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Multiclass_penalty I'm not sure if that's how NWN is coded for XP penalties or if the wikia just copy-pasted from the Third Edition rules.

    I have no idea where my 3.0 books are, unfortunately. The 3.5 PHB and the wiki both refer to the character's highest "class"; I've never before seen that interpreted as multiple classes.

    The way I've always seen this played is that, in the above example, EITHER Fighter or Rogue is considered "highest". The other is within one level, and then Monk is outside, for a net 20% penalty.

    I'm not a builder, but if I can figure it out I'll test by taking 3 characters against the same opponent: a level 9, a level 7/1/1, and a level 4/4/1 (no favored classes for any of them). The first character should get base xp, the second a 40% penalty. If I'm right, the 3rd should only get a 20% penalty.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited December 2017
    Anduin said:

    I think your math is wrong on what the XP penalties would be.

    It is incorrect.

    Your turn then. Show me how I am wrong.

    EDIT: @Proont did me proud. Ignore.
    Nope, Proont got it wrong too. @FreshLemonBun got it right, as did @Malclave. If you have a human Fighter 4/Rogue 4/Cleric 4/Barbarian 1, that is only a 20% XP penalty, not a 40% penalty as your (and Proont's) math would suggest. Each class can only trigger one penalty, not one penalty per class it is out of sync with. 3.5 says you suffer a -20% XP penalty for each class that is not within 1 level of your highest class, not counting favored classes, and as far as I am aware, the rule did not change from 3.0.
  • ProontProont Member Posts: 141

    Anduin said:

    I think your math is wrong on what the XP penalties would be.

    It is incorrect.

    Your turn then. Show me how I am wrong.

    EDIT: @Proont did me proud. Ignore.
    Nope, Proont got it wrong too. @FreshLemonBun got it right, as did @Malclave. If you have a human Fighter 4/Rogue 4/Cleric 4/Barbarian 1, that is only a 20% XP penalty, not a 40% penalty as your (and Proont's) math would suggest. Each class can only trigger one penalty, not one penalty per class it is out of sync with. 3.5 says you suffer a -20% XP penalty for each class that is not within 1 level of your highest class, not counting favored classes, and as far as I am aware, the rule did not change from 3.0.
    Okay, yes I misread. My mistake.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Pretty sure 3.0 and 3.5 rules are the same.

    you really have to work quite hard to trigger a penalty of more than 20%, and it's pretty easy to avoid the penalty all together unless you are deliberately trying to build a gimped character. It's a bit pointless really.
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