Such a fundamental change to the game's core mechanics really needs to be considered carefully. If players could possess companions by default in any module, there could be many unintended consequences.
Any script run on NPCs would be affected if they occur when the NPC is possessed. Things such as initiating conversations, or taking any kind of scripted action, could break.
How would functions like GetIsPC(), GetFirstPC() or GetPCSpeaker() work? Is the PC considered to be the character being controlled at the moment these functions are called, or is it still the actual player character? If the player initiates conversations while possessing an NPC, it could affect any conditional scripts used in the conversation. Checks for variables set on the player character, quest states, class/race/alignment etc could all be broken. Any script that uses GetIsPC() could break if triggered by a possessed NPC.
If the functionality is only enabled in combat, what would happen if the possessed companion dies? Would the player get the death gui, or be forced back to the player character? What if the player character is already dead? Would the game choose the next living party member instead, or does PC death automatically trigger the death gui?
These are just a few potential issues off the top of my head. I'm sure others could come up with more.
Both the BG series, which beamdog is obviously familiar with, and NWN2, which runs off a similar engine, already deal with these things.
More often than not, player control is forced back to the PC when scripted interactions occur.
Not to mention full party control needs to work outside of combat to solve a lot of the problems people run into with multiple NPCs, like ‘move off that spot.’ Or ‘just walk around the damned tree please!’
Again, I'm fine with full control if it is set as a flag on specific npcs by the module builder. But not as a system retrofitted onto every existing module or made a default game mechanic. I cannot stress enough that doing so will cause problems with backward compatability. This is a real issue that cannot be hand waved away.
Infinity is a completely different engine from Aurora, and was built with party control in mind. NWN would likely need functions like GetIsPossessible(), GetIsPossessed(),SetPossessible(),ActionPossessCreature(), and others. It's certainly possible, but obviously requires a lot of work.
Your examples of moving companions doesn't require full possession, and as I've said, I use player feats to accomplish this. I agree though that some kind of built in functionality to do this would be welcome.
Are we reaching a point where we could have consensus that at least built-in partial party control is a good thing? And that regardless of this, the AI needs an overhaul?
You can have full party support if part of a expansion release with a module setting to be full party control this would allow future modules to adjust to the change and older ones would still work. The old module could possibly be updated by the module creator to the new full party system.
Excellent, allowing full party control lets you to become more tactical with your approach to encounters, and saves the developers the task of trying to make a henchman AI that works under all sorts of conditions. Also, welcome back BD, hope you had a relaxing break!
It's interesting that you chime in about this, @Savant1974 , as I've always found some of your own encounters made perhaps more problematic than you intended due to stupid companion AI behavior.
The example I have in mind is the encounter with Robert Black at the end of chapter one. I've always wanted to finesse that encounter tactically by not pulling Black and his entire army all at once, or by concentrating fire on his pet mages. Bad companion AI makes that almost impossible, and one winds up having to hope for some luck with dice rolls and AI behavior to get through that fight. Sometimes I suspect bad AI messes up a lot of the apparent intended behavior of the enemy combatants in a lot of your climax battles.
The best I've been able to manage is to use the "hold your ground", "follow me", and "guard me" voice commands to keep the companions as close to me as possible while I lead aggro on tactically sensible targets, the best I can.
Nelise becomes useless as far as spells, except to buff before the fight. Sometimes she starts trying to cast when she should be defending herself, so I usually turn her spells off.
Criosa can be helpful with sneak attacks if her AI happens to manage them correctly, but she usually gets killed if I put her into the fight. Last time I had to raise her from the dead at the end, and luckily her end game scripting didn't get messed up in the process.
Dante is the most helpful just because I equip him as a tank, and he has the hit points to last a bit longer while doing nothing but blindly attacking. I usually wind up using heal skill and healing kits and just healing Dante over and over, since none of the companions will drink potions or use healing kits in time on their own, no matter how many you put into their inventories. They'll wait until they're down to almost their last hit point, then try to drink a potion and provoke a dozen attacks of opportunity just before they die.
So, my point is that ambitious epic level mods with epic level tactical fights, like yours, would have a lot more possibilities and would be a lot better with improved AI and/or full player companion control.
It seems to me full party control is what makes or breaks the single player aspect of NWN.
With full party control for 2-6 PC's there can be something great like BG. Controlling one Fighter with poor AI henchman support just doesn't get there. Party tactics is a big factor in D&D.
Full party control can be added as an option for new/rewamped mods. Not retrofitted to the old ones, which are often also abandoned.
When NWN appeared in 2002, I went through OC, got disappointed by retarded hench AI, which allowed you to play the game like you would play Diablo, since most henches were useless to the point where yopu would treat them only as mules for carrying the loot.
There will never be, in conceivable time, AI that can control the companions, or whatever you want to call them, as good as I could. Majority of mods, and I went through some 600+ of them over the years, are SP. Most of them are playable only with melee or some multiclassed variation of those, mostly fighter/rogue or fighter/priest. I have never seen any mod, unless specially tailored, that could reliably work for rogue or wizard PC unless multiclassed.
Think of the most common issue I had when tried, being stupid in my younger days,to go through mods with sorcerer. It is not your hench that advances through the dungeon, it is you. So, you are sorcerer and it is you who gets spotted by enemies... So... It is not your fighter hench that gets locked on by those 5 orcs with axes, but you. Not to speak of those 3 archers behind them that start pelting you with arrows the moment they spot you. There is no AI in the world that can protect your PC in similar situations. And I am not even touching more complex situations. That would mean that you are limited, in most mods, in the respect which class you might play. In BG I can play rogue or a wizard. In NWN SP mods? Nope. Yeah there are mods specifically made for wizards. All 5 of them, actually. There are mods for rogues. I can think of... 4?
As for AI that simulates realistic behavior... After PW experience, I can positively say that if any player behaves like an idiot in the dungeon, said player would never be invited to join any party. Other players would take great care to stay away from that person. I can tell you that rping mentally retarded person can be great fun but no one will ever be stupid enough to take such PC along others into the dungeon.
So, yeah, if they can and want to implement full party control, that could rewamp the game, removing the major obstacle. If they do not want or have no time for it, ok, we shall live through that. In that case, if I buy EE, it will be solely for playing multiplayer. If the servers I have interest in move to EE at all.
Majority of mods, and I went through some 600+ of them over the years, are SP. Most of them are playable only with melee or some multiclassed variation of those, mostly fighter/rogue or fighter/priest. I have never seen any mod, unless specially tailored, that could reliably work for rogue or wizard PC unless multiclassed.
I've never had any problems playing solo wizards in any module (on hardcore D&D rules). Rogues are more difficult, it's true, but even with poor AI, a companion that can draw enemy attention is enough for rogues to be playable with no problems whatsoever.
As it seems that it won't be published on mobile platforms, the only possible motivation for me to buy NWN EE (on PC) would be if full party control was introduced.
It would be brilliant if this were implemented through a nwscript function(s) that allow a player to (be forced to) possess/control entirely different NPC's more or less the same way DM possession works, in addition to manual player possession of party members at their own discretion.
As it seems that it won't be published on mobile platforms, the only possible motivation for me to buy NWN EE (on PC) would be if full party control was introduced.
Have you ever played Neverwinter Nights? I'm just trying to understand why someone would want to play this on a mobile platform...
As it seems that it won't be published on mobile platforms, the only possible motivation for me to buy NWN EE (on PC) would be if full party control was introduced.
Have you ever played Neverwinter Nights? I'm just trying to understand why someone would want to play this on a mobile platform...
Yep - long time ago.
I don't see why you wouldn't.
Games like Jade Empire and KOTOR have done quite well on IOS. NWN would seem to fit somewhere in between from my perspective .... so yes, I would buy it on mobile if they made it.
When NWN appeared in 2002, I went through OC, got disappointed by retarded hench AI, which allowed you to play the game like you would play Diablo, since most henches were useless to the point where yopu would treat them only as mules for carrying the loot.
I have heard this "non fully party control = diablo" a lot of times and never understood. Nwn1 is much more similar to Arcanum(doesn't have fully party control) than to diablo. Also, i can play BG solo. Finished BG1 as a solo sorcerer. Vtmb is the best vampire rpg of my life and you control only your character. I never udnerstood how nwn can be compared to diablo.
I personally don't like "micromanagement", i like role play a character and that character. You can ask for buff from party members in nwn1. You can use then as meatshields. They are useful. Here is an example. My helmed horror gived me a lot of time and allowed my lv 14 sorc to destroy 2 dragons. If i have a hench + familiar + my summon, the battle will be more easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZa9MDbH4Zk
And in hotu you can have : - You - A familiar - A summon - Hench 1 - Hench 2
Only because they can permadie and you can't control, doesn't means that they aren't useful.
When NWN appeared in 2002, I went through OC, got disappointed by retarded hench AI, which allowed you to play the game like you would play Diablo, since most henches were useless to the point where yopu would treat them only as mules for carrying the loot.
I have heard this "non fully party control = diablo" a lot of times and never understood. Nwn1 is much more similar to Arcanum(doesn't have fully party control) than to diablo. Also, i can play BG solo. Finished BG1 as a solo sorcerer. Vtmb is the best vampire rpg of my life and you control only your character. I never udnerstood how nwn can be compared to diablo.
I personally don't like "micromanagement", i like role play a character and that character. You can ask for buff from party members in nwn1. You can use then as meatshields. They are useful. Here is an example. My helmed horror gived me a lot of time and allowed my lv 14 sorc to destroy 2 dragons. If i have a hench + familiar + my summon, the battle will be more easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZa9MDbH4Zk
And in hotu you can have : - You - A familiar - A summon - Hench 1 - Hench 2
Only because they can permadie and you can't control, doesn't means that they aren't useful.
If tea likes to play alone, it does not mean that everyone thinks of it in the same way, this is an optional function not mandatory as in Baldursgate, if you want to play alone play but who prefers to control multiple characters simultaneously or more and more useful, this it means that if something does not like it is not right that it should not be inserted just because it does not like tea, show it to the point of view of people who want this thing not to think only of yourself.
On the comparison of Diablo, well ... in fact it looks a bit like it seems set, it will be ... that at the beginning the first times I played I had not yet played diablo and so everything seemed so different, but now that I grew up and I played several games including Diablo ... well it seems to me to play diablo in NWN, I do not say that the style of Diablo sucks, I just say that this is D & D ok? D & D is a game mainly based on groups as well as the individual player, not a sense so make sure that the player (if he so wishes) can have more than one partner? and check it as you like? it's not better?
When NWN appeared in 2002, I went through OC, got disappointed by retarded hench AI, which allowed you to play the game like you would play Diablo, since most henches were useless to the point where yopu would treat them only as mules for carrying the loot.
I have heard this "non fully party control = diablo" a lot of times and never understood. Nwn1 is much more similar to Arcanum(doesn't have fully party control) than to diablo. Also, i can play BG solo. Finished BG1 as a solo sorcerer. Vtmb is the best vampire rpg of my life and you control only your character. I never udnerstood how nwn can be compared to diablo.
I personally don't like "micromanagement", i like role play a character and that character. You can ask for buff from party members in nwn1. You can use then as meatshields. They are useful. Here is an example. My helmed horror gived me a lot of time and allowed my lv 14 sorc to destroy 2 dragons. If i have a hench + familiar + my summon, the battle will be more easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZa9MDbH4Zk
And in hotu you can have : - You - A familiar - A summon - Hench 1 - Hench 2
Only because they can permadie and you can't control, doesn't means that they aren't useful.
If tea likes to play alone, it does not mean that everyone thinks of it in the same way, this is an optional function not mandatory as in Baldursgate, if you want to play alone play but who prefers to control multiple characters simultaneously or more and more useful, this it means that if something does not like it is not right that it should not be inserted just because it does not like tea, show it to the point of view of people who want this thing not to think only of yourself.
On the comparison of Diablo, well ... in fact it looks a bit like it seems set, it will be ... that at the beginning the first times I played I had not yet played diablo and so everything seemed so different, but now that I grew up and I played several games including Diablo ... well it seems to me to play diablo in NWN, I do not say that the style of Diablo sucks, I just say that this is D & D ok? D & D is a game mainly based on groups as well as the individual player, not a sense so make sure that the player (if he so wishes) can have more than one partner? and check it as you like? it's not better?
Well, DnD is a group game, but each person controls one member. You can't contract an NPC to hold items and then use this guy as a "meatshield" or a bait in PnP. He will never accept that, but if you have fully party control, you can do this. Also, give obvious orders to a Wizard that have 20 INT in a world that the average person have 10 INT seems ludicrous. Since is an optional feature i an fine(i rather have a better IA for companions and enemies), i an NOT saying that this should't implemented. I play mostly as casters(sorcerer/druid/cleric) but this doesn't means that people who play as a fighter should't get more stuff If this will be good for community, i an only wondering how nwn1 and diablo is can be compared. Here is a BG1 solo sorc playthrough
His playthrough looks very different than a D2 playthrough. Differences between D2 and NWN : - More races and classes to choose - Spells require a long time to cast - More complex rules - More randomness (dice rolls) - No skill tree - More attributes - Alignment - Prestige classes - Tons of more spells - You can pause to think - Turn based(one turn = 6 seconds) - Custom modules - More close to PnP RPG's (...)
The unique similarity is the lack of party control and the heavily "action" focus.
I don't know why but my post din't showed. In nutshell, i an not against OPTIONAL features, only wondering how d2 can be compared to nwn1 since everything is very different in character customization, progression, combat, etc and that in pnp you control only one character. Other players controls other characters, you can't hire an npc to carry your loot then use he as a bait. The unique similarity to d2 is the lack of party control and that exists in many other rpg games very close to pnp like vtmb, arcanum...
PS : Also there are a lot of solo playthrough of bg1 on yt. If i play solo bg1, i an playing d2?
I don't know why but my post din't showed. In nutshell, i an not against OPTIONAL features, only wondering how d2 can be compared to nwn1 since everything is very different in character customization, progression, combat, etc and that in pnp you control only one character. Other players controls other characters, you can't hire an npc to carry your loot then use he as a bait. The unique similarity to d2 is the lack of party control and that exists in many other rpg games very close to pnp like vtmb, arcanum...
PS : Also there are a lot of solo playthrough of bg1 on yt. If i play solo bg1, i an playing d2?
We do not think badly about the concept of D & D, you ok in D & D control the character wolf but a character who can stay inside a party of a group of other characters controlled by other players or control multiple characters.
The fact that many RPGs are played alone is not true, some like Skyrim, The Withcer or Zelda play alone but it's not completely true BG1-2 or Divinity Original Sin 2 or Guild Wars you can play alone but with the ability to control even more contemporary characters, so do not say indirectly that playing alone and has always been the central point of the RPG genre.
From my point of view this is becoming over the years an almost silent phenomenon that catches the mind of the players, confusing the terminology and the concepts themselves of SP (single palyer) MP (Multy Player) and MMO, the MMO that becomes almost a single player, the sigle player that becomes an MMO ... you do not realize it but as you try to explain your ideology as you get more and more confused by alienating ... believing that playing alone is the basic concept of RPG.
I'll be saying that I'm saying bagianate but the more years go by I realize how much the videolugic community cheers up individually closes, and more and more confuses the various concepts and terminologies of the game, this thing must stop if not go out of control and it ends up that everyone plays alone.
And as if you're practically sitting in a room in front of a mirror and playing ping pong yourself, do you think it's normal?
Mine is neither an accusation nor a criticism I just want to take a moment to open your eyes and make you reflect "very carefully" what you are saying.
We do not think badly about the concept of D & D, you ok in D & D control the character wolf but a character who can stay inside a party of a group of other characters controlled by other players or control multiple characters.
I never played dnd with 2 characters at the same time.
The fact that many RPGs are played alone is not true, some like Skyrim, The Withcer or Zelda play alone but it's not completely true BG1-2 or Divinity Original Sin 2 or Guild Wars you can play alone but with the ability to control even more contemporary characters, so do not say indirectly that playing alone and has always been the central point of the RPG genre.
Where i have said indirectly that playing alone is a central point of RPG genre? The central point of RPG genre is role play. You can "role play" an party or an character, i feel more immersive role playing a character and i like more games that let me do this. I an not saying that all RPG's should be this. I an only saying that say that i disagree that nwn1 is similar to d2 and will be similar to bg1 if you give fully party control. Also, all RPGs that you have mentioned are aRPG. Did you have played vtmb? arcanum?
(...) believing that playing alone is the basic concept of RPG.
Where i have said that? nwn1 had a good multiplayer. If i an controlling 2 characters i an not playing alone now? But if i join with my friends in a server and play with 3 friends, since i an only roleplaying one character, i an playing alone?
But then you say that not all RPG games have to be like that ... but sorry ... is not that a bit strange this statement of yours? c'e ... do not you put your ideas together?
The problem "NOT" when you said it, and that what you said makes "THINK-UNDERSTAND" that playing alone is not mandatory but the real concept of the RPG.
No, so what? I have experienced many games, maybe similar maybe not but also I think I had a lot of experience after 15-20 years of role playing games online and not, on what are the right terminologies etc ... (I have a lot to learn again at ok times but this applies to everyone, there is always something new to learn) but...vtmb or Arcanum, do not know what we're talking here, and does not mean that he knows nothing of "true" RPG as smebra you want me to understand "indirectly" to me with your words.
So in your opinion any RPG that doesn't give fully party control can't be tactical and is an aRPG(action rpg)? Forgive me if i an misunderstanding but that is my impression. If i for example conjure an undead, then use area of effect negative energy spell to damage enemies while give health to my undead, i an not being tactical, but if i use the same tactic with fully control over my undead, now i an playing a tactical game? And not playing alone anymore? Only because now i have fully party control?
I an only asking. For vtmb and arcanum, are examples of games that is very close to pnp and doesn't give fully party control. I never said that if someone plays BG1 in party, he is not playing an RPG, but the solo playtrought is. I an only asking what is the relations between d2 and nwn1.
Personally? It feels about the same. Mind you, I was referring to the OC, not any of the mods, of which there are both H&S and RP in large numbers. Point is that I have henchmen that are useless. Now, I know I can play BG all alone, but really, I never cared to. I simply do not prefer it, not to say that is quite less interesting without various party members that work as a group. Having no companion, or useful companion, at least for me, conveys the feeling of action RP. Not bad, but not something I would platy.
The topic is about having more useful party in mods. You do not have to take any of the henchmen, ever, if the encounters are made to scale. And, yes, I think this feature should not be mandatory, as it would break most of the older mods, but an option for a mod builder. This way, he can enable it in the mod or not. Or add it to the older mods.
Also, we are talking about personal preferences here. You do not have to agree with me on any point, and vice versa. These are just opinions.
What I see as low hanging fruit for Beamdog is to take a look at TonyK's AI and Numos' Minion Command Tool. BD has the expertise to improve the quality of both packages which I think would greatly improve the game. And it's not going to take a ton of work. A lot of the heavy lifting has been done already. BD can look at both packages with a fresh pair of eyes, fix the bugs, tweak the performance, and so on.
They could also add some more spawn-in behavior flags, such as the ones in Project Q.
And how about a morale system? Instead of all monsters always fighting to the death, why not a reliable system whereby certain opponents flee or surrender under the right conditions? We almost have that today but it is buggy.
Not having full party control is the reason why I NEVER used henchmen in NWN 1. I simply hired them to run through their stories and get the XPs for it. Besides, you got less XP while having a henchmen, iirc. Not to talk about ruining your strategies or having to constantly give them orders via commands. Frankly, for an EE edition, they have left out one of the most obvious enhancements.
What I see as low hanging fruit for Beamdog is to take a look at TonyK's AI and Numos' Minion Command Tool. BD has the expertise to improve the quality of both packages which I think would greatly improve the game. And it's not going to take a ton of work. A lot of the heavy lifting has been done already. BD can look at both packages with a fresh pair of eyes, fix the bugs, tweak the performance, and so on.
The phrase "band-aid on a shotgun wound" comes to mind. No AI can compensate for the lack of party control, especially when dealing with spellcasters.
And how about a morale system? Instead of all monsters always fighting to the death, why not a reliable system whereby certain opponents flee or surrender under the right conditions? We almost have that today but it is buggy.
That seems like something that should be handled on a case-by-case basis by a module creator. Making it a global, automated system could cause all kinds of problems, and NWN already supports having enemies surrender instead of dropping dead.
@PL1 I think you're missing the "low hanging fruit" part.
Taking an existing 3rd party improvement to AI and finalizing it (cleaning it up, squashing some bugs) is a real improvement and a quick win.
Taking an existing 3rd party associate control tool and finalizing it is also a real improvement and a quick win.
Adding a variable for morale level (similar the X2 Compassion variable & Project Q Coward variable) with a couple of AI tweaks is also a quick win.
None of these steps prevents BD from offering an option for full party control. And while you personally may not care for any of these suggestions, the fact that HenchAI and the Minion Control tool have proven to be quite popular over the years (based on # of downloads & comments in the forums) demonstrates that there is a real genuine demand for these improvements.
With the exception of the Minion Control tool, all of these suggestions enhance rather than contradict the desire for full party control. The Minion Control tool is a step in the direction you are asking for, and if it can be implemented quickly, why not support it?
Honestly, I don't understand your vitriol. Everyone else on this thread seems to support the option for full party control and improved AI. Why the hate towards improved AI? And why not support steps towards your stated goal of full party control? Especially when they can be implemented quickly?
Honestly, I don't understand your vitriol. Everyone else on this thread seems to support the option for full party control and improved AI. Why the hate towards improved AI? And why not support steps towards your stated goal of full party control? Especially when they can be implemented quickly?
I guess I've just seen too many people saying that they should improve the AI but not allow FPC, so I mistakenly assumed that's where you were going. I guess the Minion Control thing is a step in the right direction, but it's still nowhere near the level of control I'd like to see.
There already is a cool nwn companion hack out there. There are premade henchmen but you can simply load up your fav character and add him to the table. Then load up the game you are playing and make them a henchmen. It hasn’t broken anything yet.
Yes, this is what nwn really needs incorporated into its game (as well as henchmen ai fix). If you can get it up to nwn2 standards , hats off.
I've always thought that one of NWN's weaknesses was its party system. Sure it works perfectly if you're partying up with a bunch of friends (good work Trent in that regard), but it's poorly set up for single players. I generally played NWN alone, though now with the EE coming out I may play with some friends. I think the best course of action would be to give modules an option of having full party control or not. I'd prefer to play the campaigns with full control of my companions.
Comments
Any script run on NPCs would be affected if they occur when the NPC is possessed. Things such as initiating conversations, or taking any kind of scripted action, could break.
How would functions like GetIsPC(), GetFirstPC() or GetPCSpeaker() work? Is the PC considered to be the character being controlled at the moment these functions are called, or is it still the actual player character? If the player initiates conversations while possessing an NPC, it could affect any conditional scripts used in the conversation. Checks for variables set on the player character, quest states, class/race/alignment etc could all be broken. Any script that uses GetIsPC() could break if triggered by a possessed NPC.
If the functionality is only enabled in combat, what would happen if the possessed companion dies? Would the player get the death gui, or be forced back to the player character? What if the player character is already dead? Would the game choose the next living party member instead, or does PC death automatically trigger the death gui?
These are just a few potential issues off the top of my head. I'm sure others could come up with more.
More often than not, player control is forced back to the PC when scripted interactions occur.
Not to mention full party control needs to work outside of combat to solve a lot of the problems people run into with multiple NPCs, like ‘move off that spot.’ Or ‘just walk around the damned tree please!’
Infinity is a completely different engine from Aurora, and was built with party control in mind. NWN would likely need functions like GetIsPossessible(), GetIsPossessed(),SetPossessible(),ActionPossessCreature(), and others. It's certainly possible, but obviously requires a lot of work.
Your examples of moving companions doesn't require full possession, and as I've said, I use player feats to accomplish this. I agree though that some kind of built in functionality to do this would be welcome.
The example I have in mind is the encounter with Robert Black at the end of chapter one. I've always wanted to finesse that encounter tactically by not pulling Black and his entire army all at once, or by concentrating fire on his pet mages. Bad companion AI makes that almost impossible, and one winds up having to hope for some luck with dice rolls and AI behavior to get through that fight. Sometimes I suspect bad AI messes up a lot of the apparent intended behavior of the enemy combatants in a lot of your climax battles.
The best I've been able to manage is to use the "hold your ground", "follow me", and "guard me" voice commands to keep the companions as close to me as possible while I lead aggro on tactically sensible targets, the best I can.
Nelise becomes useless as far as spells, except to buff before the fight. Sometimes she starts trying to cast when she should be defending herself, so I usually turn her spells off.
Criosa can be helpful with sneak attacks if her AI happens to manage them correctly, but she usually gets killed if I put her into the fight. Last time I had to raise her from the dead at the end, and luckily her end game scripting didn't get messed up in the process.
Dante is the most helpful just because I equip him as a tank, and he has the hit points to last a bit longer while doing nothing but blindly attacking. I usually wind up using heal skill and healing kits and just healing Dante over and over, since none of the companions will drink potions or use healing kits in time on their own, no matter how many you put into their inventories. They'll wait until they're down to almost their last hit point, then try to drink a potion and provoke a dozen attacks of opportunity just before they die.
So, my point is that ambitious epic level mods with epic level tactical fights, like yours, would have a lot more possibilities and would be a lot better with improved AI and/or full player companion control.
But since downloading NWN:EE I’ve yet to play a module that would hurt or even wouldn’t benefit from being able to control the henchmen.
With full party control for 2-6 PC's there can be something great like BG. Controlling one Fighter with poor AI henchman support just doesn't get there. Party tactics is a big factor in D&D.
When NWN appeared in 2002, I went through OC, got disappointed by retarded hench AI, which allowed you to play the game like you would play Diablo, since most henches were useless to the point where yopu would treat them only as mules for carrying the loot.
There will never be, in conceivable time, AI that can control the companions, or whatever you want to call them, as good as I could. Majority of mods, and I went through some 600+ of them over the years, are SP. Most of them are playable only with melee or some multiclassed variation of those, mostly fighter/rogue or fighter/priest. I have never seen any mod, unless specially tailored, that could reliably work for rogue or wizard PC unless multiclassed.
Think of the most common issue I had when tried, being stupid in my younger days,to go through mods with sorcerer. It is not your hench that advances through the dungeon, it is you. So, you are sorcerer and it is you who gets spotted by enemies... So... It is not your fighter hench that gets locked on by those 5 orcs with axes, but you. Not to speak of those 3 archers behind them that start pelting you with arrows the moment they spot you. There is no AI in the world that can protect your PC in similar situations. And I am not even touching more complex situations. That would mean that you are limited, in most mods, in the respect which class you might play. In BG I can play rogue or a wizard. In NWN SP mods? Nope. Yeah there are mods specifically made for wizards. All 5 of them, actually. There are mods for rogues. I can think of... 4?
As for AI that simulates realistic behavior... After PW experience, I can positively say that if any player behaves like an idiot in the dungeon, said player would never be invited to join any party. Other players would take great care to stay away from that person. I can tell you that rping mentally retarded person can be great fun
So, yeah, if they can and want to implement full party control, that could rewamp the game, removing the major obstacle. If they do not want or have no time for it, ok, we shall live through that. In that case, if I buy EE, it will be solely for playing multiplayer. If the servers I have interest in move to EE at all.
Yep - long time ago.
I don't see why you wouldn't.
Games like Jade Empire and KOTOR have done quite well on IOS. NWN would seem to fit somewhere in between from my perspective .... so yes, I would buy it on mobile if they made it.
I personally don't like "micromanagement", i like role play a character and that character. You can ask for buff from party members in nwn1. You can use then as meatshields. They are useful. Here is an example. My helmed horror gived me a lot of time and allowed my lv 14 sorc to destroy 2 dragons. If i have a hench + familiar + my summon, the battle will be more easier.
And in hotu you can have :
- You
- A familiar
- A summon
- Hench 1
- Hench 2
Only because they can permadie and you can't control, doesn't means that they aren't useful.
On the comparison of Diablo, well ... in fact it looks a bit like it seems set, it will be ... that at the beginning the first times I played I had not yet played diablo and so everything seemed so different, but now that I grew up and I played several games including Diablo ... well it seems to me to play diablo in NWN, I do not say that the style of Diablo sucks, I just say that this is D & D ok? D & D is a game mainly based on groups as well as the individual player, not a sense so make sure that the player (if he so wishes) can have more than one partner? and check it as you like? it's not better?
Well, DnD is a group game, but each person controls one member. You can't contract an NPC to hold items and then use this guy as a "meatshield" or a bait in PnP. He will never accept that, but if you have fully party control, you can do this. Also, give obvious orders to a Wizard that have 20 INT in a world that the average person have 10 INT seems ludicrous. Since is an optional feature i an fine(i rather have a better IA for companions and enemies), i an NOT saying that this should't implemented. I play mostly as casters(sorcerer/druid/cleric) but this doesn't means that people who play as a fighter should't get more stuff If this will be good for community, i an only wondering how nwn1 and diablo is can be compared. Here is a BG1 solo sorc playthrough
His playthrough looks very different than a D2 playthrough. Differences between D2 and NWN :
- More races and classes to choose
- Spells require a long time to cast
- More complex rules
- More randomness (dice rolls)
- No skill tree
- More attributes
- Alignment
- Prestige classes
- Tons of more spells
- You can pause to think
- Turn based(one turn = 6 seconds)
- Custom modules
- More close to PnP RPG's
(...)
The unique similarity is the lack of party control and the heavily "action" focus.
PS : Also there are a lot of solo playthrough of bg1 on yt. If i play solo bg1, i an playing d2?
The fact that many RPGs are played alone is not true, some like Skyrim, The Withcer or Zelda play alone but it's not completely true BG1-2 or Divinity Original Sin 2 or Guild Wars you can play alone but with the ability to control even more contemporary characters, so do not say indirectly that playing alone and has always been the central point of the RPG genre.
From my point of view this is becoming over the years an almost silent phenomenon that catches the mind of the players, confusing the terminology and the concepts themselves of SP (single palyer) MP (Multy Player) and MMO, the MMO that becomes almost a single player, the sigle player that becomes an MMO ... you do not realize it but as you try to explain your ideology as you get more and more confused by alienating ... believing that playing alone is the basic concept of RPG.
I'll be saying that I'm saying bagianate but the more years go by I realize how much the videolugic community cheers up individually closes, and more and more confuses the various concepts and terminologies of the game, this thing must stop if not go out of control and it ends up that everyone plays alone.
And as if you're practically sitting in a room in front of a mirror and playing ping pong yourself, do you think it's normal?
Mine is neither an accusation nor a criticism I just want to take a moment to open your eyes and make you reflect "very carefully" what you are saying.
You say to me... so you can play as well as alone with more characters, However ... You make me understand that you like to play alone you prefer that style of play in all RP for me (sorry if I misinterpret you)... But then you say that not all RPG games have to be like that ... but sorry ... is not that a bit strange this statement of yours? c'e ... do not you put your ideas together? The problem "NOT" when you said it, and that what you said makes "THINK-UNDERSTAND" that playing alone is not mandatory but the real concept of the RPG. Just in company with other NPCs who react and talk with tea, you're not just around the world. No, so what? I have experienced many games, maybe similar maybe not but also I think I had a lot of experience after 15-20 years of role playing games online and not, on what are the right terminologies etc ... (I have a lot to learn again at ok times but this applies to everyone, there is always something new to learn) but...vtmb or Arcanum, do not know what we're talking here, and does not mean that he knows nothing of "true" RPG as smebra you want me to understand "indirectly" to me with your words.
I an only asking. For vtmb and arcanum, are examples of games that is very close to pnp and doesn't give fully party control. I never said that if someone plays BG1 in party, he is not playing an RPG, but the solo playtrought is. I an only asking what is the relations between d2 and nwn1.
The topic is about having more useful party in mods. You do not have to take any of the henchmen, ever, if the encounters are made to scale. And, yes, I think this feature should not be mandatory, as it would break most of the older mods, but an option for a mod builder. This way, he can enable it in the mod or not. Or add it to the older mods.
Also, we are talking about personal preferences here. You do not have to agree with me on any point, and vice versa. These are just opinions.
They could also add some more spawn-in behavior flags, such as the ones in Project Q.
And how about a morale system? Instead of all monsters always fighting to the death, why not a reliable system whereby certain opponents flee or surrender under the right conditions? We almost have that today but it is buggy.
That seems like something that should be handled on a case-by-case basis by a module creator. Making it a global, automated system could cause all kinds of problems, and NWN already supports having enemies surrender instead of dropping dead.
Taking an existing 3rd party improvement to AI and finalizing it (cleaning it up, squashing some bugs) is a real improvement and a quick win.
Taking an existing 3rd party associate control tool and finalizing it is also a real improvement and a quick win.
Adding a variable for morale level (similar the X2 Compassion variable & Project Q Coward variable) with a couple of AI tweaks is also a quick win.
None of these steps prevents BD from offering an option for full party control. And while you personally may not care for any of these suggestions, the fact that HenchAI and the Minion Control tool have proven to be quite popular over the years (based on # of downloads & comments in the forums) demonstrates that there is a real genuine demand for these improvements.
With the exception of the Minion Control tool, all of these suggestions enhance rather than contradict the desire for full party control. The Minion Control tool is a step in the direction you are asking for, and if it can be implemented quickly, why not support it?
Honestly, I don't understand your vitriol. Everyone else on this thread seems to support the option for full party control and improved AI. Why the hate towards improved AI? And why not support steps towards your stated goal of full party control? Especially when they can be implemented quickly?
There are premade henchmen but you can simply load up your fav character and add him to the table.
Then load up the game you are playing and make them a henchmen.
It hasn’t broken anything yet.
Yes, this is what nwn really needs incorporated into its game (as well as henchmen ai fix).
If you can get it up to nwn2 standards , hats off.