Not a frequent poster here and I’ve no standing in the community apart from being a long-time fan of NWN. It keeps me sane between jobs, kids, and all the rest.
I’ve no clue whether and / or to what extent there are technical limitations to implementing this vision; my endorsement is of the substantive vision of Lilura’s essay.
I make this endorsement with due respect to TO’s apparent belief that FPC would be inconsistent with the original vision of NWN. If anyone has the standing to stake that claim, he does. Still, I’d like to find a way to implement at least some version / option of FPC in NWN EE.
Thanks to the community for keeping NWN alive over the years, and thanks to Beamdog for the EE!
I don't think Full Party Control would go against the spirit of NWN.
It doesn't take away anything. It only adds new possibilities for single player. NWN's single player without FPC is weak, and making it stronger would make the whole game stronger.
This isn't The Witcher or Dark Souls. A D&D game just doesn't work well with only one character. For me personally, it kills all interest for single player modules. Party members with their personalities and skill sets and party tactics are what make SP a good game.
NWN is D&D and a game shouldn't try to be something it's not. Adventuring parties are very much in the spirit of D&D. The whole system is built around the idea of a party.
FPC really should have been in since 2002. And this is coming from someone who only plays multiplayer on PW's or co-op, controlling one character. If there was FPC I would also play BG -style single player adventures.
I don't think Full Party Control would go against the spirit of NWN.
It doesn't take away anything. It only adds new possibilities for single player. NWN's single player without FPC is weak, and making it stronger would make the whole game stronger.
This isn't The Witcher or Dark Souls. A D&D game just doesn't work well with only one character. For me personally, it kills all interest for single player modules. Party members with their personalities and skill sets and party tactics are what make SP a good game.
NWN is D&D and a game shouldn't try to be something it's not. Adventuring parties are very much in the spirit of D&D. The whole system is built around the idea of a party.
FPC really should have been in since 2002. And this is coming from someone who only plays multiplayer on PW's or co-op, controlling one character. If there was FPC I would also play BG -style single player adventures.
NWN shouldn't go against the spirit of D&D.
Fully agree FPC and a "non-optional" addition to the modules SP players, which adds functionality does not detract from anything! ok ?! So who complains that FPC ruins the NWN experience is not true, NWN and mainly D & D, D & D is a game like you say @1varangian that runs on a party, but in NWN you do not control a part you are alone, and that's sad because ... fight against a bunch of zombee in the first chapter of the OC and really sad, if you are a magician then, you have the first levels the difficulty and very difficult, but in generlae for all classes, perhaps the warriors and barbarians if they get away, but in general this is neither Diablo, nor Darksouls so gocare alone does not have to be a focusing part of the gameplay, FPC must be ok but must be optional for those who want to use it, as happens in BG: EE.
And I also agree that it is ridiculous to make NWN a different game from what it really is or D & D.
Is NWN really going against the spirit of D&D? D&D is a game where a few friends get together and play with a DM providing the story in which to play. Neverwinter Nights captures that spirit very well, with the Toolset allowing a story to be built and the DM mode for a DM to allow several players to join in the game and go on an adventure. Each of these players control their own PC just like in a real and DM game at a a table. The only difference is Neverwinter Nights is substituting as that table.
Neverwinter Nights was not intended to be like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or Wizardry where you are a single person playing all party members it was intended to be played line PnP with a group of friends.
It was also made at a time when there was a 640k limit on the amount of memory that the game could use. Today is a different story with the memory limitations and there could be room for FPC if it were to be implemented. I am not against or for FPC.
But don't say that Neverwinter Nights goes against how D&D should be played or the spirit of D&D because it doesn't. Also to note, Wizards of the Coast is 100 percent behind Neverwinter Nights as a Game then and Now.
The multiplayer aspect of NWN captures the D&D spirit better than any other game.
It's the single player part that doesn't work. And apparently single player is a huge deal in RPG's.
The formula here is a very simple one. SP+FPC = more players - > more revenues - > more expansions and more content for everyone.
Yes guys, we're not saying that NWN does not capture the essence of D&D, I agree with @1varangian the problem here is only referred to the SP part, which has always been too little exploited.
Lack of FPC is the main reason I couldn't get into NWN when it was initially released. The refusal to add it in here when the devs have the opportunity and ability to would likely lead me to avoid this version as well. I don't really do multiplayer games, and if I want to play D&D with others, I'll actually play D&D. CRPGs are a way for me to enjoy that sort of game when I don't feel like socializing.
Lack of FPC is the main reason I couldn't get into NWN when it was initially released. The refusal to add it in here when the devs have the opportunity and ability to would likely lead me to avoid this version as well. I don't really do multiplayer games, and if I want to play D&D with others, I'll actually play D&D. CRPGs are a way for me to enjoy that sort of game when I don't feel like socializing.
This is a very important point. Yes, I'm sure multiplayer NWN is a great way of playing sort of an enhanced version of D&D with other people. But the beauty of video games as a medium is that they have the ability to provide a D&D experience without requiring you to get a group together. As it stands, NWN1 isn't taking full advantage of the medium.
I bought it when I was 15. Had plenty of time to play MP and only started doing that because I rage quited SP lots of times due to the stupid AI for the henchman.
Now I just don't play it because I can't spare my little time reloading everytime a henchman does something stupid due to i) poor AI and ii) poor gear.
For that reason, NWN is taking dust on my shelf for almost 5 years. Every now and then I reinstall it, get mad about the way the game behaves and uninstall it again.
I don't care about graphics, as lots of mods improved it already. 90% of the improvements I see on the patches news are for servers and other things that I, as a casual player, will never get in touch or be aware of.
I will not buy a game that I know will p*ss me off and frustrate me.
Once a month I play PnP with some old friends. Our characters are fairly high-level. Many of us have henchman/followers and the DM allow us to control them, so why can't NWN allow the same?
Allowing FPC will have absolutely zero impact on MP. But not allowing it makes the SP unplayable.
So yeah, without FPC Beamdog won't see my money for this game.
Once they have a full set of new, shiny player models i'll buy the game and any modules for it they release after. But FPC would be the single greatest enhancement they could possibly do for the engine.
I agree with the previous posters. I have always played NWN solo due to that foolishness of not having FPC. The problem is that makes me play the very same classes again and again (especially cleric, as in 3.0 is the best class for soloing). Rogues are very difficult/frustrating to play without a henchman. The problem is they make stupid things or are far more limited on what they do than if we controlled them. Besides, having FPC allows you to experince with several classes IN A SINGLE RUN. For those of us who dont have all the time in the world to play the game, is a very big plus.
The only problem I see is that they seem to be keen on not "patchnig" the game to give us FPC. I am sure there are cheap ways to implement it (in fact, some mods out there have done it, altough via weird ways, like possesing your henchman).
The RESPAWN button is an indirect consequence of having to play a D&D character solo. I must say I hate even just seeing the word 'respawn' in a D&D title. There isn't even a hardcore mode to hide that nonsense.
In future campaigns, please FPC, hardcore rules, permanent death.
After playing through SOU/HOTD recently -- I revise my vote.
FPC please. The henchmen break and do goofy stuff WAY more often than I remember.
How about only enabled in future modules and fan mods if so chosen... concentrate on FPC for new content if that's easier and makes more sense, and to sidestep the need to rebalance all the original campaigns? Possibly after the UI rework, tie it in with that for a premium module in a year, year and a half's time.
Seems less daunting doing it that way if they've looked at it and know how to go about doing it but have qualms about what it would do to the earlier modules. Let US play with it. Let US rebalance the original campaigns for FPC, then.
After playing single player again, I feel even more strongly about this now.
You basically need a tank to survive combat, rogue to deal with locks and traps, someone with high lore to identify items, and a healer to deal with conditions. A braindead henchman who gets stuck in doorways isn't fun to play with.
You need your standard Fighter, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard to play some good D&D. MP is fine, but if I play SP I need to be able to have that party too.
I've already bought 3 copies so far and will possibly buy another (big family) could care less about FPC if what we say here counts for something. Just give me inventory control , that will be enough.
Comments
Not a frequent poster here and I’ve no standing in the community apart from being a long-time fan of NWN. It keeps me sane between jobs, kids, and all the rest.
I support FPC and do so for the reasons set forth – I think cogently and persuasively – at https://lilura1.blogspot.com/2017/12/Full-Party-Control-with-Marquee-Selection-is-Where-Its-At.html.
I’ve no clue whether and / or to what extent there are technical limitations to implementing this vision; my endorsement is of the substantive vision of Lilura’s essay.
I make this endorsement with due respect to TO’s apparent belief that FPC would be inconsistent with the original vision of NWN. If anyone has the standing to stake that claim, he does. Still, I’d like to find a way to implement at least some version / option of FPC in NWN EE.
Thanks to the community for keeping NWN alive over the years, and thanks to Beamdog for the EE!
It doesn't take away anything. It only adds new possibilities for single player. NWN's single player without FPC is weak, and making it stronger would make the whole game stronger.
This isn't The Witcher or Dark Souls. A D&D game just doesn't work well with only one character. For me personally, it kills all interest for single player modules. Party members with their personalities and skill sets and party tactics are what make SP a good game.
NWN is D&D and a game shouldn't try to be something it's not. Adventuring parties are very much in the spirit of D&D. The whole system is built around the idea of a party.
FPC really should have been in since 2002. And this is coming from someone who only plays multiplayer on PW's or co-op, controlling one character. If there was FPC I would also play BG -style single player adventures.
NWN shouldn't go against the spirit of D&D.
And I also agree that it is ridiculous to make NWN a different game from what it really is or D & D.
Neverwinter Nights was not intended to be like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or Wizardry where you are a single person playing all party members it was intended to be played line PnP with a group of friends.
It was also made at a time when there was a 640k limit on the amount of memory that the game could use.
Today is a different story with the memory limitations and there could be room for FPC if it were to be implemented. I am not against or for FPC.
But don't say that Neverwinter Nights goes against how D&D should be played or the spirit of D&D because it doesn't. Also to note, Wizards of the Coast is 100 percent behind Neverwinter Nights as a Game then and Now.
It's the single player part that doesn't work. And apparently single player is a huge deal in RPG's.
The formula here is a very simple one. SP+FPC = more players - > more revenues - > more expansions and more content for everyone.
If I want D & D human interaction, I'll play with the family around the table.
Question comes down to whether adding this option / feature justifies BD's efforts in terms of cost / potential sales.
I suppose it will be hard to tell unless they conduct some polls.
Personally - I will not spend money on this unless FPC is added or it comes out on IOS.
Otherwise - they are not offering enough (for my personal needs as a customer) to justify the purchase.
I bought it when I was 15. Had plenty of time to play MP and only started doing that because I rage quited SP lots of times due to the stupid AI for the henchman.
Now I just don't play it because I can't spare my little time reloading everytime a henchman does something stupid due to i) poor AI and ii) poor gear.
For that reason, NWN is taking dust on my shelf for almost 5 years. Every now and then I reinstall it, get mad about the way the game behaves and uninstall it again.
I don't care about graphics, as lots of mods improved it already. 90% of the improvements I see on the patches news are for servers and other things that I, as a casual player, will never get in touch or be aware of.
I will not buy a game that I know will p*ss me off and frustrate me.
Once a month I play PnP with some old friends. Our characters are fairly high-level. Many of us have henchman/followers and the DM allow us to control them, so why can't NWN allow the same?
Allowing FPC will have absolutely zero impact on MP. But not allowing it makes the SP unplayable.
So yeah, without FPC Beamdog won't see my money for this game.
The only problem I see is that they seem to be keen on not "patchnig" the game to give us FPC. I am sure there are cheap ways to implement it (in fact, some mods out there have done it, altough via weird ways, like possesing your henchman).
The RESPAWN button is an indirect consequence of having to play a D&D character solo. I must say I hate even just seeing the word 'respawn' in a D&D title. There isn't even a hardcore mode to hide that nonsense.
In future campaigns, please FPC, hardcore rules, permanent death.
FPC please. The henchmen break and do goofy stuff WAY more often than I remember.
How about only enabled in future modules and fan mods if so chosen... concentrate on FPC for new content if that's easier and makes more sense, and to sidestep the need to rebalance all the original campaigns? Possibly after the UI rework, tie it in with that for a premium module in a year, year and a half's time.
Seems less daunting doing it that way if they've looked at it and know how to go about doing it but have qualms about what it would do to the earlier modules. Let US play with it. Let US rebalance the original campaigns for FPC, then.
You basically need a tank to survive combat, rogue to deal with locks and traps, someone with high lore to identify items, and a healer to deal with conditions. A braindead henchman who gets stuck in doorways isn't fun to play with.
You need your standard Fighter, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard to play some good D&D. MP is fine, but if I play SP I need to be able to have that party too.