Look at the time, was not instant gold. I have ran this straight, unmodded, and without exploits. And looking to ToB was just planning ahead, also why I said that boots of speed were not a game changer, the leather armor in Saradush gives haste if I remember right. I had planned to use that for hit and run when needed. Turns out it was not needed.
I thought this would be fun and the game is, but wow. I looked past all earlier comments and was just sharing what I have done, now I don't know what to say. This game is supposed to be fun, I don't understand someone having an abrasive attitude.
Aside that it is some horribly modded game., thus instantly mostly disqualifies on "who knows where the game balance went", still looked it. Right there realised I saw this, and already told it seems usless, so just skipping to the Melissan-battle. I'll quote:
" injure her from a distance using the Wand of Frost and Sling Bullets. Every Focus must be hit.you need a clear Aura when she says "praeses." - The wand of frost is obviously horrendously upped in that mod, and have no idea whatthe other words mean => no help at all, but the strategy is obviously unmaintainable in the clean game. Thus the link has no use.
The Wand of Frost is not changed by that mod. It does the exact same damage and has the exact same parameters it always has. Same goes for slings. The only changes that SCS makes to player items is to either nerf them, move them to a less accessible spot, or outright remove them from the game.
To clarify the terms for you:
1. Focus is a spell introduced by Ascension. You only get it in the final battle and its only purpose is to grant temporary immunity to Time Stop. You have to manage it very carefully if you're going to defeat Ascension Melissan, because getting caught off-guard by Time Stop is easily fatal. 2. A "clear aura" means that you haven't used a spell or item in the past 6 seconds. "Aura" is the shorthand for the single use you get of any potion or scroll or wand or spell or whatever in a single round. It comes from the message "aura cleansing" that appears when Improved Alacrity is active. That message displays before you cast a spell during Improved Alacrity, so the idea is that when you cast a spell, your aura is "clouded" and therefore you can't cast another spell until it "clears." 3. "Praeses" is the first word in the incantation for alteration spells. It's a clue that Melissan is casting Time Stop.
So what Alesia was saying was that, if you're fighting Ascension Melissan, you need to carefully manage which spells and items you use, because you need to be able to cast Focus within a narrow 2-second window during which Melissan is casting Time Stop. If she begins casting the spell and your "aura" won't be clear for another 2 seconds, it will be impossible for you to defend yourself against her Time Stop->Teleport Without Error->Greater Whirlwind Attack combo. It's important for no-reload runs because acting even a fraction of a second too late can be fatal.
The reason I linked Alesia's run is because, on the previous page, we were discussing the prospect of a solo bard, and you expressed skepticism that solo bards were any good in ToB. So I posted a link to Alesia's run as proof that not only are solo bards capable of handling ToB, they can even handle it with SCS and Ascension installed, which make the game vastly more challenging, and they can handle it without even dying once.
Currently no one has documented a no-reload Wizard Slayer/Druid run, but we do have a no-reload Wizard Slayer trilogy run beginning here and a dual-classed Fighter/Druid here. They may prove useful for your run.
NW: I've shared a few thoughts on bards and Alisa's run in particular. I've placed them in a spoiler tag to avoid distracting people from the focus of this thread, wizard slayer/druids. If anyone would like to discuss bards in the specific context of SCS/Ascension solo no reload play, I'd be happy to do so in another thread, perhaps the Adventurer's Lounge. You'll just have to call me over there (by using my name) since I'm not really active on the forums these days
On bards and power: It's funny how player perceptions of classes change over time. In the 2000s, bards, and in particular blades, had a reputation for being eminently suited to solo runs, the logic being that if you have UAI, access to arcane defenses -and know how to leverage both- you can be nigh unkillable. Offense matters too, naturally, but bards were seen as spoilt for options there, with the range of avenues available to a given player being a function of that player's facility with the class. To players in the know, bards were seen as a top tier, if not elite, option for solo play. Players routinely soloed the unmodded adventure with them.
As a new generation of players emerged, enthralled by the DPS concept, based mostly on its paramount importance in penecontemporary games if not BG, bards came to be held in lower esteem offensively speaking. Over the same time frame, a few of the classic arcane defensive strategies became less well known and less commonly employed, leaving some players unaware of just how survivable a character with access to the full range of mid-level arcane spells can be.
Given that history, it doesn't surprise me to see a current generation player who has trouble imagining a successful bard solo, while others are baffled, to the point of vexation, that someone could doubt the ability of a bard to complete the game, especially with reloads. I see Twilight's views on bards, and the discussions they provoke, as a consequence of historical trends intersected with his unique personality.
As I said the last time this subject came up, class power is a function of context, including playing style. It is to a significant extent subjective. While I and many other experienced players find bards balanced, powerful, top-tier, eminently suited to solo Trilogy runs, that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to think the same. I'll suggest that we should allow Twilight his opinion. Likewise, Twilight, you should consider the possibility that there are other valid views of the bard class's power curve.
I'll note before moving on to Alisa's run that I, personally, have yet to see a challenge that bards aren't capable of meeting. On the original Bioware forums bard solo of the unmodded adventure were common. I've documented an SCS/Ascension solo no reload with a jester, as many know. Saros, who was a more aggressive player, embracing exploits, documented an Ascension insane solo with a blade and -incredibly- an Improved Anvil solo no reload, also with a blade
On Alisa's run and why I chose a jester: I started Alisa's run semi-soon after an extended break from BG and no reload play in particular. Upon return to the community, I didn't want to be seen as bulldozing the challenge with over-powered characters, and also didn't want to bore myself, so I made a point of using slightly nerfy builds, most of whom didn't quite make it. When I started Alisa's run, I wanted a success and was looking for a class that would be easy to solo, but perceived as at least vaguely difficult. Since the bard's star had fallen somewhat (in the communities perceptions, if not my view) a bard seemed a reasonable choice. I went with a jester rather than a blade, reasoning that there still must be players out there who remember the kit's glory days, and so the use of a blade might shatter the illusion of difficulty.
That players now resort to citing Alisa's run as evidence of bard-ly proficiency -and some see it as the only evidence- seems almost comical to me. Bards are capable. They've just been under-utilized in recent years
On the wand of frost sling bullet strategy for finishing AMel. Did that seem goofy to some of you? It does to me. But there was a logic behind it. As a no reload player, my tendency is to lock down defense first and then worry about offense later: "Slow on attack, fast on defense," like the old line from Dune. I also tend to be far less willing to experiment as the stakes get higher. Late in an adventure, I rely heavily on strategies that I've seen work before, even if they are almost certainly suboptimal.
The wand of frost sling bullet approach was developed in the context of a run with a poorly equipped single class thief (NW: Literally poorly equipped- I was rusty and hadn't packed her Bag of Holding right). It was a choice bred of desperation that happened to have worked. When Alisa got to the Throne, I decided to take an "if-it-ain't-broke" approach rather than risking death through experimentation. As those who read the thread know, the wand of frost/sling bullet approach ultimately did not work for Alisa due to an implementation error, forcing me, reluctantly, to improvise. Fortunately, the improvised strategy worked.
Were I to redo that fight with a bard now, the endgame sequence would be far more elegant, leveraging more of the class's abilities.
One last comment on bard-ly power: Around the time of Alisa's run, I completed a SCS/Ascension solo no reload with an M/T and another with a F/M. The M/T and F/M were easier than the jester, mostly because buffing took less time, thanks to Improved Alacrity. On core, I'd lump all three in an unsorted "easy" category, without feeling much need to differentiate. On insane, where Mel summons oodles of demons and a pair of fallen solars, I do think the F/M would have a non-trivial comparative advantage over the jester and, to a lesser extent, the M/T. The M/T had a much higher power ceiling than I anticipated though, and I suspect that I may still be under-rating the class.
Ok! That's enough about bards and such. Let's focus back in on wizard slayer)druids and Twilight's upcoming adventures. Wish him luck!
This game is supposed to be fun, I don't understand someone having an abrasive attitude.
Agreed.
Before I move one, I'll take a moment to share a thought on kindnesses, humility, and excellence.
In the no reload community, these traits often co-occur: the most accomplished players also tend to be kind and humble. While excellence can exist in the absence of kindness and humility, and often does in other contexts, I'd suggest that these traits are inter-related.
Those who are kind and non-confrontational never box themselves into a particular viewpoint via argument, and so are always able to entertain new perspectives. They can also interpret new evidence with an open mind.
Those who are humble can always learn new things without losing face, letting them study the writings of their peers and potentially grow.
The best advice I could give to a new player would be to be humble, kind, and studious. Happily, embracing those traits also makes the community more edifying and joyful for all. It's a win-win. And worth considering.
Before I move one, I'll take a moment to share a thought on kindnesses, humility, and excellence.
You call lacking conversation due to not being able to tell a single argument on their side, dismissing contrary words (from opinions up to facts), and pretending to be the "c00l kid in school, smoking in the corner, saying "whatever"" humility and excellence?
Pardon me if some don't share your position.
PS: as I said as Wizardslayer does not suffer the restrictions stated in the game, I no longer care for that.
1. I haven't tried to change your personal opinion on bards because I have no stake in that matter. As I've said, you're entitled to your opinion. At the same time, I've shared my perspective on the class because I thought others might appreciate it. I think some have
2. I've implied that you might benefit from approaching the game and your interactions with others on the forums differently because I don't want to see you get banned, and would also like to see this discussion become more pleasant for the rest of the community. I also think a shift in mindset would help you succeed with your bard, and I'd like to see you succeed. I've tried to be a friend to you, basically. I see that that hasn't been appreciated and so I'll move on, wishing you well.
1. I haven't tried to change your personal opinion on bards because I have no stake in that matter. As I've said, you're entitled to your opinion. At the same time, I've shared my perspective on the class because I thought others might appreciate it. I think some have
2. I've implied that you might benefit from approaching the game and your interactions with others on the forums differently because I don't want to see you get banned, and would also like to see this discussion become more pleasant for the rest of the community. I also think a shift in mindset would help you succeed with your bard, and I'd like to see you succeed. I've tried to be a friend to you, basically. I see that that hasn't been appreciated and so I'll move on, wishing you well.
Good hunting!
Best,
A.
Saw. your comment. Appreciated for what it worth. The problem is: you offer nothing. you don't have an opinion.
What oyu have is a statement. And claims w/o evidence shall be dropped w/o evidence.
And because you provide no details for the claim which could be checked for validity, we don't actualy have a discussion. You cano nly discuss things if all party shows cards - here you should show HOW the bard would be strong. Without showing something to discuss,without something the other party(s) can aknowledege, you have absolutly nothing.
AndI'm totaly friendly and helpful here. Maybe you don't even notice you live in a logical fallacy. That's why I point it out. That's why I played the game through, all three parts, and told firsthand experience and minute detail like where I had to fall on what potions, tricks and strategies. And at times what was what failed.
PS: all kudos to this guy I randomly stumbled into yesterday, inspired me to go and try finaly Melissan, and being a bad player himself provided good information, because (s)he self had to rely on the informations the game provides. I LOVE being a bad player, that makes me a good player. I'll never come to you when you ask in Diablo 2 ver 1.00 that I heared in Diablo 2 ver 1.13 you can find Sulik's daughter.
I was debating whether to reply to this. In light of the apparent moderator response to the OPs comment, I've decided to go with my first instinct: radio silence, peace out.
I'll remind everyone that I'd be happy to discuss SCS/Ascension no reload tactics for bards over in the Adventurer's Lounge.
I was debating whether to reply to this. In light of the apparent moderator response to the OPs comment, I've decided to go with my first instinct: radio silence, peace out.
I'll remind everyone that I'd be happy to discuss SCS/Ascension no reload tactics for bards over in the Adventurer's Lounge.
Best,
A.
You never did anything but radio silence. All the words - total lack of content.
I was debating whether to reply to this. In light of the apparent moderator response to the OPs comment, I've decided to go with my first instinct: radio silence, peace out.
I'll remind everyone that I'd be happy to discuss SCS/Ascension no reload tactics for bards over in the Adventurer's Lounge.
Best,
A.
You never did anything but radio silence. All the words - total lack of content.
You are a strange person . You wanted an admission that bards are not the easiest class for solo runs - you got it (along with links to the record of solo run with bard). But instead of leaving in satisfaction you begun to insult every solo-runner on the forum and Alesia in particular with your "no video - no evidences" (if there was a video I am sure you would say it's edited) and "your game was made easier" (despite detailed explanation how that particular mods specifically designed to make game much more difficult, that you can check by yourself anytime).
And no - you are neither helpful nor friendly (in fact, the opposite). Spiteful dismiss of every word from an opponent never helped to any discussion.
Thank you, @Alesia_BH for patience and interesting information. Even for non-solo runners it's useful to see every class at it's best (when they solo).
Comments
Look at the time, was not instant gold. I have ran this straight, unmodded, and without exploits. And looking to ToB was just planning ahead, also why I said that boots of speed were not a game changer, the leather armor in Saradush gives haste if I remember right. I had planned to use that for hit and run when needed. Turns out it was not needed.
I thought this would be fun and the game is, but wow. I looked past all earlier comments and was just sharing what I have done, now I don't know what to say. This game is supposed to be fun, I don't understand someone having an abrasive attitude.
To clarify the terms for you:
1. Focus is a spell introduced by Ascension. You only get it in the final battle and its only purpose is to grant temporary immunity to Time Stop. You have to manage it very carefully if you're going to defeat Ascension Melissan, because getting caught off-guard by Time Stop is easily fatal.
2. A "clear aura" means that you haven't used a spell or item in the past 6 seconds. "Aura" is the shorthand for the single use you get of any potion or scroll or wand or spell or whatever in a single round. It comes from the message "aura cleansing" that appears when Improved Alacrity is active. That message displays before you cast a spell during Improved Alacrity, so the idea is that when you cast a spell, your aura is "clouded" and therefore you can't cast another spell until it "clears."
3. "Praeses" is the first word in the incantation for alteration spells. It's a clue that Melissan is casting Time Stop.
So what Alesia was saying was that, if you're fighting Ascension Melissan, you need to carefully manage which spells and items you use, because you need to be able to cast Focus within a narrow 2-second window during which Melissan is casting Time Stop. If she begins casting the spell and your "aura" won't be clear for another 2 seconds, it will be impossible for you to defend yourself against her Time Stop->Teleport Without Error->Greater Whirlwind Attack combo. It's important for no-reload runs because acting even a fraction of a second too late can be fatal.
The reason I linked Alesia's run is because, on the previous page, we were discussing the prospect of a solo bard, and you expressed skepticism that solo bards were any good in ToB. So I posted a link to Alesia's run as proof that not only are solo bards capable of handling ToB, they can even handle it with SCS and Ascension installed, which make the game vastly more challenging, and they can handle it without even dying once.
Currently no one has documented a no-reload Wizard Slayer/Druid run, but we do have a no-reload Wizard Slayer trilogy run beginning here and a dual-classed Fighter/Druid here. They may prove useful for your run.
Twilight, it's good to see you back in action.
Best,
A.
NW: I've shared a few thoughts on bards and Alisa's run in particular. I've placed them in a spoiler tag to avoid distracting people from the focus of this thread, wizard slayer/druids. If anyone would like to discuss bards in the specific context of SCS/Ascension solo no reload play, I'd be happy to do so in another thread, perhaps the Adventurer's Lounge. You'll just have to call me over there (by using my name) since I'm not really active on the forums these days
On bards and power: It's funny how player perceptions of classes change over time. In the 2000s, bards, and in particular blades, had a reputation for being eminently suited to solo runs, the logic being that if you have UAI, access to arcane defenses -and know how to leverage both- you can be nigh unkillable. Offense matters too, naturally, but bards were seen as spoilt for options there, with the range of avenues available to a given player being a function of that player's facility with the class. To players in the know, bards were seen as a top tier, if not elite, option for solo play. Players routinely soloed the unmodded adventure with them.
As a new generation of players emerged, enthralled by the DPS concept, based mostly on its paramount importance in penecontemporary games if not BG, bards came to be held in lower esteem offensively speaking. Over the same time frame, a few of the classic arcane defensive strategies became less well known and less commonly employed, leaving some players unaware of just how survivable a character with access to the full range of mid-level arcane spells can be.
Given that history, it doesn't surprise me to see a current generation player who has trouble imagining a successful bard solo, while others are baffled, to the point of vexation, that someone could doubt the ability of a bard to complete the game, especially with reloads. I see Twilight's views on bards, and the discussions they provoke, as a consequence of historical trends intersected with his unique personality.
As I said the last time this subject came up,
class power is a function of context, including playing style. It is to a significant extent subjective. While I and many other experienced players find bards balanced, powerful, top-tier, eminently suited to solo Trilogy runs, that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to think the same. I'll suggest that we should allow Twilight his opinion. Likewise, Twilight, you should consider the possibility that there are other valid views of the bard class's power curve.
I'll note before moving on to Alisa's run that I, personally, have yet to see a challenge that bards aren't capable of meeting. On the original Bioware forums bard solo of the unmodded adventure were common. I've documented an SCS/Ascension solo no reload with a jester, as many know. Saros, who was a more aggressive player, embracing exploits, documented an Ascension insane solo with a blade and -incredibly- an Improved Anvil solo no reload, also with a blade
On Alisa's run and why I chose a jester: I started Alisa's run semi-soon after an extended break from BG and no reload play in particular. Upon return to the community, I didn't want to be seen as bulldozing the challenge with over-powered characters, and also didn't want to bore myself, so I made a point of using slightly nerfy builds, most of whom didn't quite make it. When I started Alisa's run, I wanted a success and was looking for a class that would be easy to solo, but perceived as at least vaguely difficult. Since the bard's star had fallen somewhat (in the communities perceptions, if not my view) a bard seemed a reasonable choice. I went with a jester rather than a blade, reasoning that there still must be players out there who remember the kit's glory days, and so the use of a blade might shatter the illusion of difficulty.
That players now resort to citing Alisa's run as evidence of bard-ly proficiency -and some see it as the only evidence- seems almost comical to me. Bards are capable. They've just been under-utilized in recent years
On the wand of frost sling bullet strategy for finishing AMel. Did that seem goofy to some of you? It does to me. But there was a logic behind it. As a no reload player, my tendency is to lock down defense first and then worry about offense later: "Slow on attack, fast on defense," like the old line from Dune. I also tend to be far less willing to experiment as the stakes get higher. Late in an adventure, I rely heavily on strategies that I've seen work before, even if they are almost certainly suboptimal.
The wand of frost sling bullet approach was developed in the context of a run with a poorly equipped single class thief (NW: Literally poorly equipped- I was rusty and hadn't packed her Bag of Holding right). It was a choice bred of desperation that happened to have worked. When Alisa got to the Throne, I decided to take an "if-it-ain't-broke" approach rather than risking death through experimentation. As those who read the thread know, the wand of frost/sling bullet approach ultimately did not work for Alisa due to an implementation error, forcing me, reluctantly, to improvise. Fortunately, the improvised strategy worked.
Were I to redo that fight with a bard now, the endgame sequence would be far more elegant, leveraging more of the class's abilities.
One last comment on bard-ly power: Around the time of Alisa's run, I completed a SCS/Ascension solo no reload with an M/T and another with a F/M. The M/T and F/M were easier than the jester, mostly because buffing took less time, thanks to Improved Alacrity. On core, I'd lump all three in an unsorted "easy" category, without feeling much need to differentiate. On insane, where Mel summons oodles of demons and a pair of fallen solars, I do think the F/M would have a non-trivial comparative advantage over the jester and, to a lesser extent, the M/T. The M/T had a much higher power ceiling than I anticipated though, and I suspect that I may still be under-rating the class.
Ok! That's enough about bards and such. Let's focus back in on wizard slayer)druids and Twilight's upcoming adventures. Wish him luck!
Before I move one, I'll take a moment to share a thought on kindnesses, humility, and excellence.
In the no reload community, these traits often co-occur: the most accomplished players also tend to be kind and humble. While excellence can exist in the absence of kindness and humility, and often does in other contexts, I'd suggest that these traits are inter-related.
Those who are kind and non-confrontational never box themselves into a particular viewpoint via argument, and so are always able to entertain new perspectives. They can also interpret new evidence with an open mind.
Those who are humble can always learn new things without losing face, letting them study the writings of their peers and potentially grow.
The best advice I could give to a new player would be to be humble, kind, and studious. Happily, embracing those traits also makes the community more edifying and joyful for all. It's a win-win. And worth considering.
Good hunting, friends!
Best,
A.
Pardon me if some don't share your position.
PS: as I said as Wizardslayer does not suffer the restrictions stated in the game, I no longer care for that.
2. I've implied that you might benefit from approaching the game and your interactions with others on the forums differently because I don't want to see you get banned, and would also like to see this discussion become more pleasant for the rest of the community. I also think a shift in mindset would help you succeed with your bard, and I'd like to see you succeed. I've tried to be a friend to you, basically. I see that that hasn't been appreciated and so I'll move on, wishing you well.
Good hunting!
Best,
A.
you offer nothing.
you don't have an opinion.
What oyu have is a statement.
And claims w/o evidence shall be dropped w/o evidence.
And because you provide no details for the claim which could be checked for validity, we don't actualy have a discussion. You cano nly discuss things if all party shows cards - here you should show HOW the bard would be strong. Without showing something to discuss,without something the other party(s) can aknowledege, you have absolutly nothing.
AndI'm totaly friendly and helpful here. Maybe you don't even notice you live in a logical fallacy. That's why I point it out. That's why I played the game through, all three parts, and told firsthand experience and minute detail like where I had to fall on what potions, tricks and strategies. And at times what was what failed.
PS: all kudos to this guy I randomly stumbled into yesterday, inspired me to go and try finaly Melissan, and being a bad player himself provided good information, because (s)he self had to rely on the informations the game provides.
I LOVE being a bad player, that makes me a good player.
I'll never come to you when you ask in Diablo 2 ver 1.00 that I heared in Diablo 2 ver 1.13 you can find Sulik's daughter.
I'll remind everyone that I'd be happy to discuss SCS/Ascension no reload tactics for bards over in the Adventurer's Lounge.
Best,
A.
All the words - total lack of content.
And no - you are neither helpful nor friendly (in fact, the opposite). Spiteful dismiss of every word from an opponent never helped to any discussion.
Thank you, @Alesia_BH for patience and interesting information. Even for non-solo runners it's useful to see every class at it's best (when they solo).