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Watchers Keep

SariusSarius Member Posts: 24
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Does it matter whether I go to watchers keep in SoA or ToB? I usually go there in SoA. Is there any reason to wait until ToB to adventure there or doesn't it matter?

Comments

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    No reason, although having all the best items does make later encounters a lot easier.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    If you want to follow the original design and concept of the game, WK is part of ToB, that's how it was originally released. For the feeling of it, I never go there earlier. Also, like @Borek said, a lot of itmes don't belong into SoA, Cespenar deals with them.
    A lot of mods made WK available for earlier parts or enabled Cromwell to do the Cespenar job as well. It's a matter of taste nowadays, for me it's a cheat and exploit - but maybe it's only because I remember the original game still.
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Watcher's Keep was always accessible from SoA once it was added - which admittedly came with the ToB expansion, so it is not cheating in the sense that the original game makers intended that the keep be accessible early.

    The first floor of the keep definitely has a feel and difficulty level similar to much of SoA, and the second floor too. Loot is appropriate for the first game, with some fairly nice but not game breaking items. The weapons belt, quivers, and cases stand out as useful but not overpowering SoA kit.

    Level 3 and below start to feel more like ToB difficulty curve, although accessible (and beatable by a determined party) from SoA. I always got the feeling that WK was intended as a blended experience, to be tackled floor by floor, as the party felt ready.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    As PaulaMigrate says, it's a matter of taste. The designers did make it available for the SOA campaign, so I don't think it's cheating to go there early, but as many point out it can make SOA rather easy, not just because of the items, but because of the experience. You can come out of there with HLAs or close to it (I'm pretty sure you'll get HLAs by the Underdark if you even do the first 3 or 4 levels of WK in Chapter 2). The question is whether you want to play that way. Personally, sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.

    Difficulty mods might change things, too. As an SCS newbie, I've discovered that completing even the 1st level of WK fresh from Chateau Irenicus is no longer doable, and that's with a light SCS install. I can't imagine what levels 2, 3 and 4 are like with SCS - especially if you install the WK tactical challenge.
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 636
    It doesn't matter no, and you can even start in SoA and finish in ToB.

    And to be perfectly honest, i find most items in WK underwhelming until Cesp has had a go with them.

    I can't think of anything in WK, that without upgrades, is any better than Flail of Ages, Crom Fayr and Carsomyr.. and as such i often do it before ToB.

    But then i rarely play ToB anyway as it's not very good.

    I'm actually at a point where i no longer enjoy BG2 as much as i did. It was my absolute favorite, but i find BG1 to be much better now.. and this is because in BG2 everyone and their dog are carrying super awesome artifacts of doom and casting rare super powerfull spells like confetti.. but this is entirely unrelated.. yet it isn't, because it's what'll happen if you do WK in SoA.. your encounters will be super inflated, and you'll meet bloody liches at places you really wouldn't expect one.. as those are kind of super rare as well xD
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    I deeply dislike how WK was implemented: there's not a natural flow that makes you go there, not a single RP reason to detour your major quest and go there. RP-wise, AFAIK, there's not even a reason for Charname to know that the place exists.

    Almost like happens with Ulgoth's Beard/Durlag's Tower, but worse.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    Raduziel said:

    I deeply dislike how WK was implemented: there's not a natural flow that makes you go there, not a single RP reason to detour your major quest and go there. RP-wise, AFAIK, there's not even a reason for Charname to know that the place exists.

    Almost like happens with Ulgoth's Beard/Durlag's Tower, but worse.

    The only attempts I ever found for WK integration into the story (other than that it's there...) have been done by mods.
    One is Longer Road where Irenicus introduces it to the protagonist and adds an extra quest there.
    The other is Sandrah Saga where the priestess shares her knowledge of the place with the protagonist when you reach the first ToB outside area.
    In both cases, the extra quests and reasons to go there are triggered in ToB and not before, and the flow is that of ToB.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Raduziel said:

    I deeply dislike how WK was implemented: there's not a natural flow that makes you go there, not a single RP reason to detour your major quest and go there. RP-wise, AFAIK, there's not even a reason for Charname to know that the place exists.

    Almost like happens with Ulgoth's Beard/Durlag's Tower, but worse.

    I never knew it existed back in the day, completely missed it.

    It wasn't until I read about it on line inbetween not being able to play BG/BG2 at all and the EE's coming out (where or WTF is WK was my reaction for a long time) in discussions along the lines of, "which is the better dungeon, WK or Durlags".
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    i remember one time i had a play through where i was playing a monk and finished all of watcher's keep before chapter 3, my team was so grossly powerful for the rest of the game i never had gone there before ToB since

    i always wait until i finish up with yaga shura and then i go to watchers keep and finish it off from start to finish
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