Best Voghiln build and items?
Nerva
Member Posts: 133
I haven't had a Bard in my party so far and I've wanted to have one, so I added Voghiln, but he's got a level-up with a new proficiency, so now I have to decide what the best build is, and that requires knowing what the best items are for Bards in SoD.
I typically use the two-column, three-row formation. He certainly won't be in the front row, and I'm debating whether to put him in the second row or the third. Typically I like first row to be offensive combatants that rush out with boots of speed and engage the enemy in melee. Then the second row I like to be support combatants that are excellent at ranged attacks but can also use two-handed weapons with reach to attack in melee from the second row. The third row are the casters that rely on spells and fall back on ranged attacks, running for help from the better fighters if the enemy gets too close.
The problem with Voghiln is his proficiencies are Bastard Sword, Axe, Sword-and-shield, and Two-weapon. So he's not set up for the two-handed ranged and melee weapons I'd prefer in the second row. He comes with +1 Throwing Axes -- how viable are those compared to missile weapons?
His proficiencies also favor the use of shields, but that would exclude using the Reed of Echoes. But it does look like either way, he's going to want to focus on one-handed weapons. How would proficiency in Slings work for him vs. Axes (I do have the +2 Throwing Axe that returns).
And what can he wear that won't prevent him from casting spells?? Is there any elven chainmail in SoD?
I typically use the two-column, three-row formation. He certainly won't be in the front row, and I'm debating whether to put him in the second row or the third. Typically I like first row to be offensive combatants that rush out with boots of speed and engage the enemy in melee. Then the second row I like to be support combatants that are excellent at ranged attacks but can also use two-handed weapons with reach to attack in melee from the second row. The third row are the casters that rely on spells and fall back on ranged attacks, running for help from the better fighters if the enemy gets too close.
The problem with Voghiln is his proficiencies are Bastard Sword, Axe, Sword-and-shield, and Two-weapon. So he's not set up for the two-handed ranged and melee weapons I'd prefer in the second row. He comes with +1 Throwing Axes -- how viable are those compared to missile weapons?
His proficiencies also favor the use of shields, but that would exclude using the Reed of Echoes. But it does look like either way, he's going to want to focus on one-handed weapons. How would proficiency in Slings work for him vs. Axes (I do have the +2 Throwing Axe that returns).
And what can he wear that won't prevent him from casting spells?? Is there any elven chainmail in SoD?
2
Comments
1: Blades with a focus on dual wield, using +APR weapons; daggers, scimis and shorties
2: Blades with a focus on ranged, using +APR weapons; short bows, crossbows or daggers/darts
3: The rest.
So in this case Voghiln is in category three which means he should not use weapons at all, he should sing his song and cast spells in between. SoD has a load of great bard items, like the bard's hat and all, so with lingering song you could fling an axe or spell in between singing without interrupting the boon. However, since these kind of bards are in the backrow for me when I play, I rarely bother with this. Instead I put them on a script that makes them sing exclusively and then manually cast a spell every so often.
So, long story short; have him use a throwing axe and a buckler or another bard item. Equip him with wands and other cool items in his quick slots and just have him sing, summon and sling magic. Having him using his actual weapon isn't really worth it IMHO.
In theory, with the bard's hat, I guess maybe you could get him to sing, get the attack and lingering effect, attack and sling a fast spell in the same round and maybe even another attack before switching back to singing before the lingering ends, and then keep repeating that cycle. Personally I would never bother with character which isn't charname though and in SoD, even on Insane you don't need to since it's so easy (except the final battle).
Edit: Btw, yes there's a chainmail +X (2? Don't remember) that do not disable spellcasting in SoD. You also get to keep your elven chainmail from BG1 of course, if you did the Dorn questline.
Assuming I put him in the third row and have him carry a shield, sing, cast spells, and make ranged attacks, should I consider using a sling instead of the +2 Throwing Axe? But that would give me five slings in the party, which seems unbalanced. Perhaps I should have kept Safana instead of Glint -- they both have quests -- but I like having four divine casters because there are four party buffs they can cast at the start of a fight.
So, in your case without knowing about the darts, I'd keep him on axes (though as said above, not actually throwing any). Not sure why you feel you should switch him to slings, but if it's the shorter range of thrown axes you are thinking about, I wouldn't worry so much about it.
Edit: the NearInfinity shows range 100 for arrows, bolts and bullets, while only 30 for throwing daggers, hammers and axes. Darts have a 20 range. But in-game I have never noticed that you need a closer distance to attack with throwing weapons.
Edit: What I meant is, playing on max zoom level makes it more obvious if a bow user can attack an enemy from a far and a dagger-thrower have to move in closer since you can see and target enemies from longer ranges. Sure, your vision is the same but if your fighters are a bit ahead of your ranged units it affect your vision/field of view.
All throwing daggers, normal and returning, magical and non-magical has the same, longer range
Same with slings
Same with xbows, sbows and lbows (including composite)
Same with throwing hammer, but I only tested generic ones and +1 ones
Same with all normal throwing axes, ie regular, +1's and Beruels resort.
However, these unique throwing axes all seem to have the shorter range:
Axe of Kruntur +2 (SoD, goblin only and funnily enough it transforms my human test subject into M'khiin when equipping the axe)
K'Logarath +4, a returning Duergar axe I've never seen in the game even, so not sure where that comes from
Rhyte's last arrow +2, a more commonly found returning throwing axe.
So, when speaking about returning throwing
hammers(edit) axes it seems they do indeed have the shorter range as per my comment above, though I was incorrect in applying that also to daggers/warhammers. I've yet to test unique throwing hammers in BG2, for example the dwarven thrower, but it's getting late here and I'm getting tired.Testing was done on BG1 with 4 characters wielding different ranged weapon and a target with 1000 HP on which they could fire on. It was easy to put them into a fire line and see when switching between weapons that they had to close the range to be able to fire with the axes.
So there you go, my conclusions is that I'm guessing these unique weapons have smaller range either deliberately or not, because they are of the 'returning' type. I don't mind it, intentional or not. It seems fitting actually and could be applied to warhammers IMHO as well.
1) Go to any party member Character Screen
2) Click on Reform Party
3) Click on Voghiln's portrait
4) Click on Remove
5) A pop-up will appear. Confirm the Remove instruction
6) Click on Done
I think I remember that Korgan in 1.3 BG2 never had issues with ranged axes and was always able to strike at the same distance, (ex: from the edge of webs and cloud effects) as the arrow shooters (like mazzy). Only had issues with my dart throwers walking onto webs or into stinking clouds/cloudkills to strike disabled enemies.
It shouldn't be an issue with Vogilhn, though. In the brief time that I had him, I made him sing. If he's getting too close to the front, try using him in another way. The low APR of throwing axes and the shorter range (as per @Skatan 's test) makes him suited not for frontline work with your tip-of-the-spear NPCs, but for chucking the odd ax at whatever damaged enemy makes it through your front line on a run for your spellcasters. Range is not an issue there, since he'll be attacking flankers which always happens at shorter range.
Must confess... I've not played very far into Dragonspear, just up to right after you get him. Had a bit a baldur's gate burnout and needed to stop. But...
Based on the bard specific items I saw in only the first portions of the game, it seems the best way to use him is to sing, chuck the occasional axe and sling a spell or two. But always be singing and shuffling. The bard songs and spell counts get nice item-based boosts in SoD, so I would take it as a hint-hint nudge-nudge about what to do with him.
His only other purpose, I suppose, is to have a charmingly crude alcoholic tag along.
JK, by the way. But that stuff does help. That Skald Song is nasty!