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No Priest of Tempus Kit in BG:EE

2

Comments

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,325

    @AstroBryGuy

    Justifiers are required to be Lawful Good so it wouldn’t fit Kivan.

    I don’t like the idea of Archer Kivan because it forces him into the role of a ranged specialist. Those who want to use him as a dual-wielder or tank won’t enjoy such a change.

    Yeah, but his personality doesn't strike me as Chaotic Good. Also, it wouldn't be the first NPC with a class or kit that they technically don't qualify for (e.g., Dorn, Anomen).

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,167
    The problem is that with the exception of Cleric/Priest kits, all kits have an upside and a downside. Therefor, assigning a kit to a non-Cleric/Priest character means assigning a downside that could very well go against the way some people like to play that character.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    The Undead Hunter kit also doesn't significantly impact gameplay. You've got one less heal but the paladin had negligible healing abilities to begin with.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,149

    But honestly, no to all of these. Branwen literally walks around saying "I'm a priest of Tempus," and now there's a Tempus kit in the game. So it would be weird not to give her that kit. (But I hope that she loses her special innate ability, it would be redundant if she has actual kit abilities.) That doesn't apply to anyone else. Kits can be added via mods. (I literally made one just for this purpose :wink: )

    viconia also goes around saying "for shar"
    viconia and branwen are both single class clerics
    they both exclaim the name of their god
    one will be "priest of x" and the other will be a generic "cleric"

    looks inconsistent, that's the issue for me.

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,152
    bob_veng said:

    viconia also goes around saying "for shar"
    viconia and branwen are both single class clerics
    they both exclaim the name of their god
    one will be "priest of x" and the other will be a generic "cleric"

    looks inconsistent, that's the issue for me.

    There is no Shar kit in the game at the moment so they can't change Viconia.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,149
    edited May 5
    It has been indicated already that making a new kit for this purpose is something that in a general sense *can* be done, so your categorical statement seems mostly false

    (we also simply know that it's possible to add kits)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,513
    The point is simply that, as there is not currently a priest of Shar kit in the game, then it doesn't make any sense to give Viconia such a kit.

    If there was a Shar kit - or if they add one - then I 100% agree that Viconia should have it. And if they add a kit for Clangeddin, then Yeslick should get it.

    But there is a Tempus kit, right now... so Branwen should get it. It's as simple as that.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    Yeslick is a multiclass though, and multiclasses can't have kits without modding or using EEkeeper.

    So he might not get the kit either way. Personally I'd be down for whichever direction they chose to go there, but there'd be a discussion to be had for sure.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @Chronicler Easy, we make multiclass kits.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    That seems like a pretty big feature to implement just because you want Yeslick to have a couple extra abilities. He's not that big a deal. You can only even access him through like half of the BG1 campaign.

    If we were just gonna do that though, just go whole hog and have all the clerics have kits, what kind of abilities do you think Quayle and Aerie would have?

    They worshipped Baravar Cloakshadowin BG1, but then in BG2 they worship Baervan Wildwanderer because the writers got them mixed up. So we'd have to figure out whether we're gonna give them different kits in BG1 and BG2 or if we're gonna iron out the continuity there.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,513
    edited May 6

    Yeslick is a multiclass though, and multiclasses can't have kits without modding or using EEkeeper.

    Well, neither can priests of Shar. :wink: So the effort involved giving Yeslick a kit vs. giving Viconia a kit would be precisely equal.

    Quayle and Aerie

    They worshipped Baravar Cloakshadowin BG1, but then in BG2 they worship Baervan Wildwanderer because the writers got them mixed up. So we'd have to figure out whether we're gonna give them different kits in BG1 and BG2 or if we're gonna iron out the continuity there.

    I've seen this a lot over the years but I'm not sure it's true. Why assume that Quayle and Aerie follow the same deity? Seems to me it's entirely possible the devs intended that:
    1) Quayle follows Baravar
    2) Quayle introduced Aerie to the gnomish pantheon
    3) Aerie chose to follow Baervan

    No contradiction, no developer error, no continuity problems.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,149

    The point is simply that, as there is not currently a priest of Shar kit in the game, then it doesn't make any sense to give Viconia such a kit.

    If there was a Shar kit - or if they add one - then I 100% agree that Viconia should have it. And if they add a kit for Clangeddin, then Yeslick should get it.

    But there is a Tempus kit, right now... so Branwen should get it. It's as simple as that.

    they can make the kit primarily for the purpose of making sure viconia has one in order for her "pureclassness" not to stick out (compared to the updated branwen - this is a totally new issue). on it's own, without a cause they would never ever be making a priest of shar kit (and you know it, so it's not the point here)

    it's hardly a chicken-or-the-egg conundrum

    basically "they" indicated that it's *possible* to make a kit for viconia

    "can"/"can't" doesn't factor in. it's about "should"/"shouldn't" and about "sooner"/"later".

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419

    Yeslick is a multiclass though, and multiclasses can't have kits without modding or using EEkeeper.

    Well, neither can priests of Shar. :wink: So the effort involved giving Yeslick a kit vs. giving Viconia a kit would be precisely equal.

    Quayle and Aerie

    They worshipped Baravar Cloakshadowin BG1, but then in BG2 they worship Baervan Wildwanderer because the writers got them mixed up. So we'd have to figure out whether we're gonna give them different kits in BG1 and BG2 or if we're gonna iron out the continuity there.

    I've seen this a lot over the years but I'm not sure it's true. Why assume that Quayle and Aerie follow the same deity? Seems to me it's entirely possible the devs intended that:
    1) Quayle follows Baravar
    2) Quayle introduced Aerie to the gnomish pantheon
    3) Aerie chose to follow Baervan

    No contradiction, no developer error, no continuity problems.
    There's more to a religion than just choosing to follow a god you've heard of though.

    They've got rites and ceremonies and stuff. I grew up Mormon for example. I couldn't teach somebody to be a Catholic Priest. I don't know how like mass and stuff works.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @Chronicler There is a big difference between monotheistic and polytheistic religions though. You wouldn't be expected to learn different rites and whatnot when you only worship a single true god. In a polytheistic culture, knowing at least a little bit of your local gods is far more common, as would be worshipping multiple, even if you have a "primary" deity.

    There is no reason why Qualye wouldn't be familiar enough with the gnomish pantheon to introduce Aerie to them and allow her to pick one that suit her.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    Fair enough. There's a lot I don't know about how things work in The Forgotten Realms.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033

    Fair enough. There's a lot I don't know about how things work in The Forgotten Realms.

    Same. There is A LOT of crap that no one person can remember it all. And that's just for one edition, out of five.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 3,208
    bob_veng said:

    But honestly, no to all of these. Branwen literally walks around saying "I'm a priest of Tempus," and now there's a Tempus kit in the game. So it would be weird not to give her that kit. (But I hope that she loses her special innate ability, it would be redundant if she has actual kit abilities.) That doesn't apply to anyone else. Kits can be added via mods. (I literally made one just for this purpose :wink: )

    viconia also goes around saying "for shar"
    viconia and branwen are both single class clerics
    they both exclaim the name of their god
    one will be "priest of x" and the other will be a generic "cleric"

    looks inconsistent, that's the issue for me.
    There is no need to struggle. Deities of Faêrun gives a kit to every priest, single, dual or multi.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/69241/kit-pack-deities-of-faerun-cleric-kitpack-for-iwd-bg-2-ee-and-eet/p1

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    I kit Shar priest would require special dialog for Viconia and Charname correligious in the BG2 romance. It would be more trouble than it is worth.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    There aren't a whole lot of kit or even class specific dialogues in the game.

    That being said Siege of Dragonspear has a lot of them, so maybe that's indicative of the direction Beamdog wants to take going forward.

    I don't get the impression they're allowed to modify the dialogue of pre-existing characters in the original campaigns, but it could plausibly come up in any new content Beamdog creates in the future.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @Chronicler They can't change existing dialogue, but they can add new.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    Do you think they could do it that way? If they just added in a bunch of new conversations, completely unconnected to any of the previous conversations, where she talks to you as one Sharran to another.

    I haven't used her a lot in BG2 but I would've thought that would be jarring, if the pre-existing dialogues weren't modified to some extent.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @Chronicler Yeah, that would make it difficult. But I'm glad that they don't alter the existing game.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,149
    rede9 said:

    I kit Shar priest would require special dialog for Viconia and Charname correligious in the BG2 romance. It would be more trouble than it is worth.

    they could make the shar kit viconia exclusive, so that the player can't pick it.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    bob_veng said:

    rede9 said:

    I kit Shar priest would require special dialog for Viconia and Charname correligious in the BG2 romance. It would be more trouble than it is worth.

    they could make the shar kit viconia exclusive, so that the player can't pick it.
    Oh, like Aerie Cleric/Mage ELF; I think it's an unicum. It could work... but after that there would be a lot of threads complaining... I confirm: It would be more trouble than it is worth.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,149
    complaining about what, a "for shar" yelling cleric being a priest of shar? I find it hard to care...

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    rede9 said:

    bob_veng said:

    rede9 said:

    I kit Shar priest would require special dialog for Viconia and Charname correligious in the BG2 romance. It would be more trouble than it is worth.

    they could make the shar kit viconia exclusive, so that the player can't pick it.
    Oh, like Aerie Cleric/Mage ELF; I think it's an unicum. It could work... but after that there would be a lot of threads complaining... I confirm: It would be more trouble than it is worth.
    She's Avariel though, so I think that's why she gets the special class options. The player character can't be Avariel.

    Though then again I guess they can't be Dark Elf either.

  • cloudkillbeatsallcloudkillbeatsall Member Posts: 94
    You can't be a drow like Viconia so where's the trouble with not being able to be a Priest(ess) of Shar like her?

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    edited May 8
    bob_veng said:

    complaining about what, a "for shar" yelling cleric being a priest of shar? I find it hard to care...

    complaining about no kit of Shar available for CHARNAME.

    You can't be a drow like Viconia so where's the trouble with not being able to be a Priest(ess) of Shar like her?

    Oh right. Race restriction. That would be reasonable!! Agreed.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @rede9 Shar isn't a Drow deity. Race wouldn't be a reason to not have it.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,756
    edited May 8
    By the way Tempus kit was a backporting from IWD. I do not think BG need other kits. There are mod for that.
    BUGFIXING is not over.

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