Sorcerer spell picks.
Tresset
Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
I am currently playing as a sorceress and almost every time I level up I spend hours trying to figure out what to pick for my new spells. So I would like to bounce some ideas off of the community to see what they think. If anyone else wants to talk about their spell pick ideas, feel free to do so.
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lvl 1: Color Spray, Grease, Magic Missile, Identify, Shield.
lvl 2: Cloud of Bewilderment, Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Weapon, See Invisibility.
lvl 3: Scintillating Sphere, Vampiric Touch.
lvl 4: Improved Invisibility.
I have 2 slots I am unsure what to do with; one at level 3 and one at level 4.
For level 3 I am thinking either Mestil's Acid Breath or Negative Energy Burst. I don't really need Haste since I have an item that does that for me. Acid Breath would mainly be for beating damage resistances. Negative Burst would be an option for damaging and weakening instead of just damaging, but I am not sure it is worthwhile yet.
For level 4 I am stuck between Evard's Black Tentacles and Ice Storm. Tentacles has always helped me a lot in the past, I am concerned that it can't hit some things, like small creatures or creatures with damage reduction. Ice Storm is a pretty straightforward spell, but I have other AoE spells too.
Feel free to suggest anything about my current setup.
and there is another level 4 damaging spell, issac's missile storm i think it is called? not sure if it's in NWN 1 but that is a pretty decent level 4 spell
don't know if anything i say is helping, i never used an arcane caster in NWN 1, and all my XP comes from NWN 2
Another small question: Which do people prefer; Fireball or Scintillating Sphere? They appear to be effectively the same spell, except that Fireball has a longer range and does fire damage while Scintillating Sphere does lightning damage.
Don't underestimate protection from evil, since it makes you immune to a ton of mind based affects from evil creatures, and it's a level 1 spell! I'd swap out grease for that one. If you're sitting back in fights, you can cast it on your tank, so they don't get stunned.
Maybe change out flame weapon for ghostly visage. The concealment bonus is sweet for a level 2 spell, and lasts for a long time once you get some levels.
Ice Storm's nice if you need to fight a lot of rogues with high reflex saves (since there's no save for it), so once again, depends on the campaign.
It is too bad that some of the best protection items compete with my charisma boosting equipment slots. Cloak of Movement competes with Nymph Cloak. Golden Circlet competes with Mask of Persuasion.
Anyway, I decided to take Negative Burst and Black Tentacles a while ago since, theoretically, they could work together to make the tentacles more likely to hit. I will likely want to bounce more ideas off of people at my next level up (level 5 spells!) so keep suggesting stuff and I will keep looking in on this thread.
In the mean time I have a puzzle for everyone: What would you pick for your three level 9 spells? I like quite a few of them, but I never seem to have room for all I want. Of the level 9 spells the ones I always want are:
Bigby's Crushing Hand: Disables most anything while doing damage.
Black Blade of Disaster: An invincible summon with a weapon enhancement bonus equal to my charisma modifier and save or die on hit? What is not to like?
Mordenkainen's Disjunction: The only dispel that ever works at high levels.
Wail of the Banshee: Kill everyone instantly sounds good to me.
Time Stop: Need I explain?
If you're cool with items covering spells, that works too. Ghostly Visage might be something you want to swap in later over a spell that's become obsolete at higher levels. Eventually after getting enough levels, when you cast it, it'll last a lot longer than rod of the ghost. You may also want to use a different robe later on, too. But don't sweat it, if it's working for you. Just one of my faves, and stays good through the whole game.
Forgot to mention stoneskin. DR 10/+5 with an extra 70-100HP, yes please!
It has been forever since I played a caster in nwn to high enough level to cast level 9 spells, but I seem to remember taking the ones you mentioned, although most toughter enemies will just make their save against wail of the banshee.
I recommend that you play at first with a Wizard and use a Sorcerer in second playthrough, that way you can "experiment" before play , but my spell recommendations are :
TIER 1
Identify - Invaluable for using items as soon as you pick them up, or in a low income environment.
Magic missile - A decent finisher that will save you the use of higher level spell. Also, one of the few spells that does magical damage.
Protection from alignment - The bonuses are almost too good to pass up. +2 to Armor (Deflection), +2 to all saves vs. Alignment, and Immunity to mind spells vs. Alignment. All in a level 1 spell!
TIER 2
Invisibility - A general all-purpose hiding spell. Useful for "refreshing" improved invisibility, while leaving the higher spell slot available.
Knock - Who needs a rogue when you have this spell? Only works on locks not flagged as "Plot."
Melf's acid arrow - One of the only Level 2 direct damage spells, it's a nice opener against a tough target. The duration stacks all the way to Level 39, with damage being dealt over 13 rounds. Anything over 6 Acid Resist completely prevents all but the initial damage.
Ultravision/see invisibility - Both very useful to detect hidden entities (invisible or hiding in darkness).
TIER 3
Displacement - 50% miss chance from melee/ranged attacks.
Flame arrow - 4d6 fire damage per arrow; spell resistance check for each arrow; one arrow per four levels. This spell is amazing at end game mainly with metamagic.
Fireball if you are not in "core dnd rules", since you will damage your companions
TIER 4
Elemental shield - 50% resistance to fire and cold + 1d6+CL damage on melee attackers.
Evard's black tentacles - Best spell against "high SR" enemies
Isaac's lesser missile storm - Good DPS against the majority of creatures in the game.
TIER 5
Lesser spell mantle - Essential when engaging other casters
Mestil's acid sheath - Same as elemental shield but with CL*2 damage.
Firebrand - CL up to 15 *d6 damage.
TIER 6
Flesh to stone - Works on "death immunity" enemies
Isaac's greater missile storm - One of the greatest DPS spell in the game
Tenser's transformation - Need go on melee? That spell is for you
TIER 7
Bigby's grasping hand - Immobilize melee enemies
Delayed blast fireball - Amazing in combination with time stop(tier 9)
Spell mantle or protection against spells (defense)
TIER 8
Horrid wilting - CL * d8 damage in a big area of effect. Amazing.
Greater planar binding - If you are good, you will get a Celestial Avenger
Greater sanctuary - Best defensive spell
TIER 9
Bigby's crushing hand - Best anti melee spell. Grap and do damage
Mordenkainen's disjunction - Lower enemies SR and dispel almost every defense
Time Stop - Best spell in the game. Za Warudo!!!
Is pretty easy to kill even creatures far above your level with a good sorc build. Like 2 high level dragon at lv 14.
Black Blade of Disaster, i can't recommend since you need to "concentrate" and in Hotu BBD will probably not OHK very often. Wail of the Banshee, is good to kill mid to low tier monsters, but high tier monsters tends to resist.
1. Greater Sanctuary.
2. Black Blade of Disaster.
3. Watch the fireworks.
i love how nwn really captured the mythos of sorc as an ultimate power build, with the correct fantasy elements of being powerful, yet also weak. a bit like the sorceror in the movie "Sword of the Sorceror"? Spectacular power, but once you figure out a sorc's weakness, you can kill them lol.
so in truth a wizard in some ways is the most powerful caster, since once he figures out your weakness, the wizard is the deadliest caster in the game (since he can swap aruond spells).
um... imho spell selection for sorc really depends on what kind of realm you are playing in. a given selection of set of spells can make sorc supreme in one realm, yet make him or her quite weak in another.
in continuous team pvp, a sorc tends to be better because you do not really have time to fiddle through your spell selections like a wizard would. the ability to just keep pumping out high damage spells still tends to win the match.
in some mods or realms, some spell selections are just very good --- this is why i think nwn really is still the best caster mmo out there. like a real magic user, every caster in nwn really needs to read and know the grimoire, or the spell magic of their world. so you really need to study your spell book, know each spell, and know each spells strengths and weaknesses (and bugs too....).
umm.. i do have a favourite list of sorc spells for each team pvp server. but it does tend to change from server to server.
for example -- a necro spell focussed sorc is really deadly and can insta kill many things. but many pvp servers disable insta death or give players immunity to death items. however, some rpg servers dont have many undead or dont give out immunity to death, so then it can be fun to focus on necro school and try to one shot all the creatures/players (if it is open pvp) in the realm. yo can really strike fear everywhere, until the server's GM decide to change the rules -.-
then again casters can be hilarious in rp servers. if you did somehow make a high DC Tashas hideous laughter spell caster, and maybe casted it on low level players, you could have a fun time leaving every player or npc etc in fits of lughter then just walk away
Spell selection dilemma? Don't worry, a fellow Sorcerer is to your assistance! Well then, take a look at my Sorcerer Spellbook. First I'll give the Final spell selections for my level 20 sorcerer, and then what spells to take in the meantime till you get access to the required high level spells. So here you go:
Level 0:
AllLevel 1:
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9:
- Time Stop (obvious choice)
- Mordenkainen's Disjunction (Take this and forget other lower level spells of it's line)
- Wail of the Banshee / Weird (take any, both are for mass annihilation)
Well now, these are the final spell picks. In the meantime you need some improvisational substitutes. Mainly, you need some defensive substitutes like: Stoneskin, lesser Elemental resistance spells; some dispelling and breaching spells; some insta-kill spells (Circle of Death, Finger of Death, though they later become completely useless); and some summons (as you like, but I'd prefer not to take any other than those I mentioned in the Final selection). Other than that, it depends upon the situation and your playstyle, and most importantly, if you have already got any magic items which give the same effect as any of the spells thus making the latter redundant. Also, I don't prefer Hold-type spells due to their sheer unreliability, and you can faster kill something in this game than disable them.And yes, I'd recommend taking a single level of Paladin with your Sorcerer, if you haven't done it already. It's like cream on top of a chocolate cake.
So, that's it! Hope it helps you and any other Sorcerers who are in the dilemma of Arcane Spell Selection!
Anyway, I took Firebrand at an earlier level. It has been useful so far, but I plan to replace it with Cone of Cold once I get Delayed Blast Fireball. I also added Lesser Mind Blank because I would have to take off my charisma boosting Mask of Persuasion to get mind spell immunity otherwise and there was little else I wanted that I didn't already have. At level 6 I added Greater Stoneskin for the time being. I will replace it once I get Premonition, probably with Chain Lightning. I added Isaac's Greater Missile Storm at an earlier level, of course. For level 7 I have Spell Mantle and Finger of Death. Spell Mantle was my first pick because I had nothing else like it and it has helped a bit, but there don't seem to be a whole lot of casters in this campaign. I chose Finger of Death mainly because Delayed Blast Fireball is still weaker than empowered Firebrand and I didn't want much else. I didn't really need Finger of Death yet (Flesh to Stone is the same kind of deal and it affects more stuff), but I did want it eventually.
Now, about damage shield spells: Death Armor, Elemental Shield, and Mestil's Acid Sheath. These spells are powerful and can kill just about anything instantly. My problem with them is that they are too easy and too boring. I almost always take them, but using them always feels cheap. All I have to do is sit there and stuff dies. Boring! I want to be blasting stuff to death! I don't want to just sit there and watch things die from hitting me! This is why I have not taken Mestil's Acid Sheath yet. I will likely take it eventually and replace Lesser Mind Blank once I get Linu's upgraded neckless for Mind Spell Immunity, but for now I don't really feel like using it. That is just my style I guess.
I do have something special in store for Death Armor though...
This is not the end for my sorceress however. I intend to take her into the epic levels by playing SoU and HotU. For now however, her spells are as follows:
Level 1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike, Grease
Level 2: Cloud of Bewilderment, Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Weapon, Web, Darkness
Level 3: Vampiric Touch, Negative Energy Burst, Mestil's Acid Breath, Flame Arrow
Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Evard's Black Tentacles, Ice Storm, Elemental Shield
Level 5: Hold Monster, Energy Buffer, Ball Lightning (improved by a mod I made), Cone of Cold
Level 6: Flesh to Stone, Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, True Seeing
Level 7: Spell Mantle, Finger of Death, Delayed Blast Fireball
Level 8: Horrid Wilting, Sunburst, Premonition
Level 9: Time Stop, Bigby's Crushing Hand
Since I didn't go through my level 8 and 9 choices I will do that now. Horrid Wilting was my first pick at level 8 because of its power and usefulness. Sunburst is kinda special to my strategy as it is one of the only disabling spells that has a reflex save. Its damage vs. undead is nice but I actually picked it more for its blinding effect than that. Premonition is a good spell, but I only want it until I get Epic Warding, at which point I will take Greater Sanctuary, the ultimate emergency spell. For level 9 spells Time Stop seemed like an obvious first choice. My next choice was harder as I debated between Bigby's Crushing Hand and Mordenkainen's Disjunction. I want both eventually (I think), but for now I thought I had gotten this far without dispelling anything so I may as well go all the way without it. The other two choices at this level which tempt me are Black Blade of Disaster and Wail of the Banshee. As powerful as it is I don't think I want Black Blade because, as a summon, it eats XP and I usually need to use it in conjunction with Greater Sanctuary. Wail of the Banshee is nice, but I figure it may be better just to use Finger of Death for my insta-killing.
I can't remember how many mind immune creatures are in the OC, but don't ignore confusion. Playing an enchantress with hold person, hold monster, confusion and even the two charms is extremely fun and powerful in a world without immunities on items. Admittedly it is a better way in MP, disabling the enemy for your fellow adventures to dispatch, but still confusion is a great CC opening spell.
Cheeky point: If the shield damage spells are too cheesy/boring for you how does Time Stop not get cut too? Nothing is easier than Time Stop, IGMS, IGMS, rinse and repeat. *Cheeky grin*
Also, don't forget about Sands of Fate on the Vault if you want to take her all the way to lvl40.
Have fun
Mind Fog: -10 to will saves makes for easy crowd control.
Greater Planar Binding: If you are going through HOTU, you may encounter some outsiders. Who knows if the -5 will save penalty for this spell is encoded or not, but either way no spell resistance makes it useful against powerful single-targets. Also provided a perfectly respectable summon, especially for good alignments, in other situations. Goes well with Mind Fog.
On many persistent worlds certain effects are changed/nerfed such as True Seeing . PW's can also be quite large and sprawling, and permanent Haste items are often not available, so I appreciate getting around faster. On such PW's my spell list might look something like this:
lvl1: Magic Missile, Protection From Alignment, Mage Armor, Identify, Expeditious Retreat
lvl2: Melf's Acid Arrow, See Invisibility, Death Armor, Balagarn's Iron Horn, Knock
lvl3: Flame Arrow, Haste, Protection From Energy, Find Traps
lvl4: Elemental Shield, Ice Storm, Improved Invisibility, Lesser Spellbreach
lvl5: Lesser Spell Mantle, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Firebrand, Lesser Mindblank
lvl6: Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, Globe of Invulnerability, Shades
lvl7: Bigby's Grasping Hand, Shadow Shield, Delayed Blast Fireball
lvl8: Premonition, Horrid Wilting, Greater Sanctuary
lvl9: Bigby's Crushing Hand, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Gate
As a quick note, this is how my list might end up but there's definitely some temporary picks while leveling such as Shelgarn's Persistent Blade (a good summon for low leveling), Stoneskin/Greater Stoneskin (till I get Premonition), Lesser Missile Stone, Planar Binding (his knockdown is nice), etc.
Another thing worth mentioning is... I really hope NWN:EE fixes the polymorph/shapechange detrimental effects on spellcasters. In the original NWN, if you had any gear that increased your primary casting stat or gave you bonus spell slots, and used Polymorph Self or Shapechange, your spell slots would get jacked because your gear bonuses weren't part of the new forum. On my old PW we fixed this via scripting so casters didn't lose any spells when shapeshifting.
In pnp D&D casters were not arbitrarily penalized for shapeshifting and I don't feel they should be in NWN either. As it stands, its almost never worthwhile for a caster to use these spells due to how punitive they are on your spell slots. If NWN:EE addresses this issue then Polymorph Self and Shapechange become worthy picks.
In modules that use the standard rules, True Seeing is taken in place of one of the other 6th level spells and See invisibility is replaced with something like Bull's Strength for extra carrying capacity.