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Worst kit?

jankieljankiel Member Posts: 127
in Archive (General Discussion)
I am interested in hearing peoples opinions on this. When EE goes out I want to try something that will present a challenge. Tough all classes and kits can become strong if played well I want to start with something totally messed up. Wizard slayer is out as there are too much restrictions on that one for me.

Beastmaster is interesting. Any other ideas?
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Comments

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Wizard slayer is worst
    Shapeshifter isn't that great either.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Monk is pretty bad in BG1, but much better in BG2. Will be interesting to see what they do with the new Monk NPC, I suspect they will give him a special ability and/or special personal item, as they did this with many BG1 NPCs
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Worst is difficult to quantify, the concept of a kit is to sacrifice traits to gain others, even the base chassis tends to mean that something isn't *terrible* by itself. The pure Thief, non-dualled Assassin is pretty terrible though from memory.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited November 2012
    Wizard Slayer is terrible.
    Shapeshifter is also pretty terrible, though hopefully it might actually be interesting in BG:EE if they re-balance it.
    Beastmaster is moderately bad. It's still usable. I've seen people dual them to Cleric as well, basically giving themselves insane summoning abilities. (Cleric/Beastmaster would include druid spells like Animal Summoning, along with the Beastmaster's innate Animal Summoning)
  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    Having played a wizard slayer through all of BG2 and ToB, it's really not that bad. Certainly not the most amazing kit out there, but it's actually surprisingly effective against mages. If you play it in BG1, though, it will be complete crap.
    I would have to go with Shapeshifter.
  • KietzelKietzel Member Posts: 40
    aside from the unpopular wizard slayer and shapeshifter, i found the jester to be the least usefull
  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    ajwz said:

    Wizard slayer is worst
    Shapeshifter isn't that great either.

    Its hard to say with Shapeshifter, since single-class druid in general is pretty sucky in BG.

  • Ulfgar_TorunnUlfgar_Torunn Member Posts: 169
    Both Beastmaster and Wizard Slayer are both pretty terrible, but Wizard Slayer is by far the worst kit. As expected, the inability to use magic items is an extremely large disadvantage.

    It's worth pointing out that if the Wizard slayer could remove the target's magical defenses that it wouldn't be completely useless. At present however it's abilities are rather inapplicable.
  • eainterplayeainterplay Member Posts: 55
    It is easily the Wizard Slayer kit, as it is even worse than simply playing a pure fighter.
    Every Druid kit is pretty bad too. Beast master ranger kit seems pretty useless as well.
  • eksterekster Member Posts: 234
    I actually had fun with the wizard slayer in BG2, as well as the jester.

    Most of the druid kits probably interested me the least, though.
  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    I could never play any of the Bard kits, because Bard to me always felt like 'Jack of all trades, pretty useless at each and every one of them.'
  • MadmartiganMadmartigan Member Posts: 18
    Do the devs actually have plans to rebalance the worst kits? I really like the idea behind the wizard slayer, but I never finished a BG2-game with it because of the huge disadvantages. I would love to start a game with a wizard slayer, but I'm afraid this kit is even worse in BG1/BG:EE.
    It's nice to have new kits in BG:EE, but it is a bit disappointing the kits are not rebalanced. Especially if you see the strenghts (and almost no weaknesses) the blackguard kit gets.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    If you are just talking BGEE then Druids actually aren't that bad.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Madmartigan

    For BGEE, besides any bugs that kits were suffering from, only the Totemic Druid was balanced for BGEE (basically nerfed the Spirit Animals so they wouldn't be immun to most creatures in the game).

    Any other balancing will be post-release. The Wizard Slayer and Shapeshifter are two kits that I'll be reminding the developers to think about rebalancing.
  • MadmartiganMadmartigan Member Posts: 18
    Thx Tanthalas!
    Maybe rebalancing can also be done through providing a few unique weapons or armor only useable by specific kits? Could be nice and an extra motivation to try different kits.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited November 2012
    @Madmartigan

    Believe me, I think it would be awesome if they added some kit specific items to the game. But at the moment, they're too busy with the BGEE release to worry about messing with classes at the moment.
  • eainterplayeainterplay Member Posts: 55
    Sarevokok said:

    Sorcerers, Berserkers and Kensai/Thief dualed are probably the weakest.

    Sorcerers are basically Wizards with a small tweak to spell memorization.
    Berserkers traded away the ability to switch back and forth from melee to ranged (which few players switched back and forth anyway) for a pretty powerful rage ability (especially useful against Mind Flayers, Beholders, Litches, etc.)
    Kensai/Thiefs might be the most powerful combo in the game. They could one shot all but the most powerful enemies with their backstab and kensai bonuses.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    DeathMachineMiyagi said:

    I could never play any of the Bard kits, because Bard to me always felt like 'Jack of all trades, pretty useless at each and every one of them.'

    Also, for me, not great as CHARNAME, as spends much of the time during combat doing nothing but bard song...

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    eainterplay said:

    Sarevokok said:

    Sorcerers, Berserkers and Kensai/Thief dualed are probably the weakest.

    Sorcerers are basically Wizards with a small tweak to spell memorization.
    Berserkers traded away the ability to switch back and forth from melee to ranged (which few players switched back and forth anyway) for a pretty powerful rage ability (especially useful against Mind Flayers, Beholders, Litches, etc.)
    Kensai/Thiefs might be the most powerful combo in the game. They could one shot all but the most powerful enemies with their backstab and kensai bonuses.

    I think he was taking the p*ss... I'm just surprised @Sarevokok didn't add the infamous Kensai>Mage...

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Quartz

    I imagine the horrible news part was about no balancing. I thought I've mentioned that before several times in the past few weeks.
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    Horrible news is a little much. Disappointing perhaps. Though the possibility of post ship tweaking is indeed a lifeline, and one I am grasping onto tightly. On top of that, part of me hopes the Wizard slayer mod gets updated, and that will do me for now :)
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
    Unkitted clerics. None of the kits have any disadvantages, so why run vanilla?
  • MenthroMenthro Member Posts: 85
    CamDawg said:

    Unkitted clerics. None of the kits have any disadvantages, so why run vanilla?

    So I can worship Tyr the even handed damnit!
  • SarevokokSarevokok Member Posts: 171
    @eainterplay Don't recognize sarcasm? :P
  • jankieljankiel Member Posts: 127
    If the kits are not balanced then whats the point in bringing them in anyway?

    Stalker looks really bad now:

    - Backstab ability (at level 1-8: x1, at level 9-16: x2, at level 17+: x3)

    - At level 12, acquires Mage spells: Haste, Protection From Normal Missiles, Minor Spell Deflection

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    Beast Master. Absolute garbage, trash of the universe, lowliest scumbag to be born. Only class that cannot Solo the game, it's a fact.

    @jankiel : that description is wrong, the backstabs are x2, x3 and x4 actually :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    Is that another manual error? (I'm always on the prowl)

    Edit: Nope nevermind its good :)
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    I'm pretty sad to hear they removed the Spirit Animal immunity. Why did they feel this needed to be removed? At max level you could use it like 3 times per day and there's still plenty of enemies that use magic weapons in the first game. Oh well, even more reason to use the Avenger I guess.

    I'd have to say that the Wizard Slayer is pretty bad (breaking news, I know) as is the Beast Master. For BG:EE I think the Beast Master might be slightly worse than the Wizard Slayer. The real downside to the Wizard Slayer is especially pronounced in the second game since you get far more and more powerful magic items that you cannot use. The Beastmaster is a terrible choice for BG:EE since you're trading the use of all the best weapons in the game (unless you're going for quarterstaff proficiency I guess) for a 15% bonus to stealth (never really use stealth with a non-stalker ranger anyway) and 1 summon spells useable once per day at the maximum level for BG:EE. Seems silly really.

    Other than that I'd say that the Shapeshifter and Blade are some poor choices. Shapeshifter for obvious reasons, the blade because in order to have 3 points in two-weapon fighting and proficiency in a weapon type you're looking at a pretty late game build to be effective. Until then you're a crappy melee bard with less pick-pocket and lore.

    The Jester seemingly got a buff in BG:EE. The jester song used to make you save with a +4 bonus to your save but the BG:EE manual says it's at a -4 penalty to saves to resist the confusion. That could be quite handy. This could be a typo though, I'm not sure.
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