I'm happy if the game knows what it is doing, and delivers a consistent playstyle. Counter-example that I find frustrating, and still need to go back to beat (no spoilers please): ME: Andromeda.
The game starts out looking like an exploration, but on some pretty strict rails, effectively your training mode for the first few hours. Finally it opens up a little, and lets you explore a small area of the first world.
Once you get the plot-device McGuffin explained, it acts more like an open world, with a small fraction of the universe to explore, and who knows how much more locked off. You can explore your worlds, which are mostly open but may have an obstacle or two to access the full map.
Finally you get the next unlock, and the whole map opens up, and it is overwhelming. The little nudges that opened the world slowly gave you an expectation of the rate the game would feed you, and I am just lost. Have not found the time to dig into this endgame, as it is looking vast. Would have been prepared for it if the game started like this, but not as a bait-and-switch after what is typically 60-80 hours of playtime for me, if not more (I am a completionist by nature, I know it can be run a lot faster)
Haven't played that, so didn't put in it
Like DA3 it's a bit difficult to classify. Both games feature a prominent rather linear main story combined with large open areas jammed full of pointless unimaginative sidequests.
I HATE sandbox games. They always try to stretch a 4 hour hour campaign across a 100 hour game and the rest is all time wasting filler.
You need to play mount and blade
Even thought M&B have a lot of classic RPG traits, it's IMHO something a lot different and a lot MORE than any other RPG. I just can't compare it to RPGs, it's more like a super-expanded HoMM than a RPG to me. I guess it may depend on your playstyle though, perhaps you can play it out more like a proper RPG if you want (and god knows you can mod the crap out of it to fit EVERY personal taste).
Anyways, sorry for the derailing, but just wanted to say I don't think M&B is equivalent to any other game presented as examples by the OP.
I HATE sandbox games. They always try to stretch a 4 hour hour campaign across a 100 hour game and the rest is all time wasting filler.
You need to play mount and blade
I will explain the history of M&B : End of history of M&B.
That is serious. M&B have no history. Is simple a sandbox RPG; and to be honest, when i choose to do a siege, after i developed an army, is much more epic than simple follow a script line thought a siege.
The problem I have with linear RPGs is that there’s no reason to play them a second time after finishing them. I already know how it plays out. No point in going back and doing it again.
That said, at least I can finish those types of games before getting bored and moving on to something else, unlike sandbox games. I haven’t finished DA:I, nor do I plan to pick it up again anytime soon. I couldn’t even get past the first planet in Andromeda for that same reason.
A good balance between the two is just right for me. I just hope this trend of all my favorite franchises going ‘open world’ stops at some point in the near future; otherwise I might have to find a new hobby, like exercising. *shudder*
Sounds about as epic as beating a computer at Risk to me.
Not because you managed to get connections, to get resources, to build your army, to made a strategy to take out his for. You din't simple followed a script. You are free to do anything that you want. Of course, there are consequences.
Sounds about as epic as beating a computer at Risk to me.
get resources, to build your army, to made a strategy
Sure sounds like Risk to me.
You are free to do anything that you want.
I WANT to stay home with my feet up in front of the fire.
It takes a meddling wizard, the world in peril, a message from a Princess or the death of a mentor to persuade me to do otherwise - i.e. a STORY.
"world in peril", "world in peril"(...)"world in peril", i personally don't like the "hero journey to save the world in peril", almost every fantasy movie/rpg follows that hero journey script. You do your history in M&B and the world react to your actions. I an not saying that i don't like history because vtmb is on my top 5 rpg's of my life and the history and lore is pretty impressive. I just don't think that the majority of games have a good history. Also, you can have a pretty open game with a pretty good history like for example Witcher.
The path to "kingship" in M&B was pretty hard for me. Started as a commoner, started to fight bandits to get experience, then joined as a vassal, received a village, had this village raided in a war, then started to raid enemy villages, my king lost a battle and was took as prisoner in a very fortified town(Shariz), then i raised a big army and worked with other lords to Siege Shariz and rescue my king. Failed, only managed to weaken Shariz. Then i retreated, raised other army and finally freed my king and took Shariz. Asked Shariz as a reward for my efforts. The king decided to not give Shariz to me, so i broke the oath and started to rule on my own, of course, my old kingdom disliked this and the result was... 2 wars in 2 fronts and if i use troops from any of this closer factions, i had a terrible morale penalty. Was pretty hard to establish my first city but i got a little lucky and after taking a lot of his lords as prisoners and some castles they offered peace and finally i got some "right to rule". After this, got some vassals and started to be a true king in M&B. The best part is that this wasn't a scripted history. Was my decisions and a IA and randomness that lead to this "conclusions".
A D&D game with this level of sandbox will be perfect IMHO.
Sounds about as epic as beating a computer at Risk to me.
get resources, to build your army, to made a strategy
Sure sounds like Risk to me.
You are free to do anything that you want.
I WANT to stay home with my feet up in front of the fire.
It takes a meddling wizard, the world in peril, a message from a Princess or the death of a mentor to persuade me to do otherwise - i.e. a STORY.
"world in peril", "world in peril"(...)"world in peril", i personally don't like the "hero journey to save the world in peril", almost every fantasy movie/rpg follows that hero journey script. You do your history in M&B and the world react to your actions. I an not saying that i don't like history because vtmb is on my top 5 rpg's of my life and the history and lore is pretty impressive. I just don't think that the majority of games have a good history. Also, you can have a pretty open game with a pretty good history like for example Witcher.
A D&D game with this level of sandbox will be perfect IMHO.
I agree to an extent. The best RPG I ever played was Planescape Torment. No word in peril, cursed with awesome...
The problem I have with linear RPGs is that there’s no reason to play them a second time after finishing them. I already know how it plays out. No point in going back and doing it again.
For me, a lot depends on how well executed the game/story is, just like re-reading a favorite book, or rewatching a favorite movie. The classic example from my experience was an old Lucas Arts point-and-click adventure, Day of the Tentacle. This was the 3rd or 4th such game I had picked up, and expected it to take a few months of frustration to finally solve (like the previous games). As it turns out, playing with my cousin we just breezed through the whole game, each unlocking the parts the other did not see, and wrapping up about 3AM that night. So much for that game.
The very next day, figuring what to do next, the answer was surprisingly simple - let's play the game again, even though we know all the puzzles. The story was that much fun, and animated so well, we just wanted to see it all over again. This is far from the common case, but is also the occasion on which gaming definitely rises to an art form.
I would hate to be king/ruler of anything, and I find it hard to identify with any character who is motivated by a desire for rulership.
"'Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'
'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'
'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.'" ― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian
Well, i don't think that i "deserve" to rule but if i can rule, i will rule... The majority of wars in humanity was not because "world in peril", is because people fight for influence, power, status, ideology, etc. In my "M&B history", if the King decides to give Shariz to me, or if i failed to take and defend this city, all factions, borders and etc will be completely different. That is lacking in the majority of sandbox RPG's. Action and consequences. Know that how IA decides some things, your decisions, your success and failure in some battles can impact and shape the world.
The majority of "sandbox" rpg only puts a lot of filler content that have no impact, but a well executed sandbox can be pretty good.
I would hate to be king/ruler of anything, and I find it hard to identify with any character who is motivated by a desire for rulership.
"'Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'
'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'
'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.'" ― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian
Well, i don't think that i "deserve" to rule but if i can rule, i will rule...
You haven't understood the quote. It doesn't say anything about "deserving" to rule. It's about competence. Anyone who thinks they are capable of ruling clearly hasn't understood the scale of the problem or their own limitations.
I would hate to be king/ruler of anything, and I find it hard to identify with any character who is motivated by a desire for rulership.
"'Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'
'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'
'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.'" ― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian
Well, i don't think that i "deserve" to rule but if i can rule, i will rule...
You haven't understood the quote. It doesn't say anything about "deserving" to rule. It's about competence. Anyone who thinks they are capable of ruling clearly hasn't understood the scale of the problem or their own limitations.
Is hard to determine the best for me. Determine the best for a nation is far above anyone competence. But that is not my point. My point is that a well made sandbox RPG can be very good and lead to different "histories"...
Comments
Pretty much the worst of both worlds.
Anyways, sorry for the derailing, but just wanted to say I don't think M&B is equivalent to any other game presented as examples by the OP.
That is serious. M&B have no history. Is simple a sandbox RPG; and to be honest, when i choose to do a siege, after i developed an army, is much more epic than simple follow a script line thought a siege.
That said, at least I can finish those types of games before getting bored and moving on to something else, unlike sandbox games. I haven’t finished DA:I, nor do I plan to pick it up again anytime soon. I couldn’t even get past the first planet in Andromeda for that same reason.
A good balance between the two is just right for me. I just hope this trend of all my favorite franchises going ‘open world’ stops at some point in the near future; otherwise I might have to find a new hobby, like exercising. *shudder*
It takes a meddling wizard, the world in peril, a message from a Princess or the death of a mentor to persuade me to do otherwise - i.e. a STORY.
It takes a meddling wizard, the world in peril, a message from a Princess or the death of a mentor to persuade me to do otherwise - i.e. a STORY.
"world in peril", "world in peril"(...)"world in peril", i personally don't like the "hero journey to save the world in peril", almost every fantasy movie/rpg follows that hero journey script. You do your history in M&B and the world react to your actions. I an not saying that i don't like history because vtmb is on my top 5 rpg's of my life and the history and lore is pretty impressive. I just don't think that the majority of games have a good history. Also, you can have a pretty open game with a pretty good history like for example Witcher.
The path to "kingship" in M&B was pretty hard for me. Started as a commoner, started to fight bandits to get experience, then joined as a vassal, received a village, had this village raided in a war, then started to raid enemy villages, my king lost a battle and was took as prisoner in a very fortified town(Shariz), then i raised a big army and worked with other lords to Siege Shariz and rescue my king. Failed, only managed to weaken Shariz. Then i retreated, raised other army and finally freed my king and took Shariz. Asked Shariz as a reward for my efforts. The king decided to not give Shariz to me, so i broke the oath and started to rule on my own, of course, my old kingdom disliked this and the result was... 2 wars in 2 fronts and if i use troops from any of this closer factions, i had a terrible morale penalty. Was pretty hard to establish my first city but i got a little lucky and after taking a lot of his lords as prisoners and some castles they offered peace and finally i got some "right to rule". After this, got some vassals and started to be a true king in M&B. The best part is that this wasn't a scripted history. Was my decisions and a IA and randomness that lead to this "conclusions".
A D&D game with this level of sandbox will be perfect IMHO.
A D&D game with this level of sandbox will be perfect IMHO.
I agree to an extent. The best RPG I ever played was Planescape Torment. No word in peril, cursed with awesome...
The very next day, figuring what to do next, the answer was surprisingly simple - let's play the game again, even though we know all the puzzles. The story was that much fun, and animated so well, we just wanted to see it all over again. This is far from the common case, but is also the occasion on which gaming definitely rises to an art form.
"'Welcome, Prince,' said Aslan. 'Do you feel yourself sufficient to take up the Kingship of Narnia?'
'I - I don't think I do, Sir,' said Caspian. 'I am only a kid.'
'Good,' said Aslan. 'If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been proof that you were not.'"
― C.S. Lewis, Prince Caspian
The majority of "sandbox" rpg only puts a lot of filler content that have no impact, but a well executed sandbox can be pretty good.