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Is Rasaad Going To Suck?

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  • BigityBigity Member Posts: 98
    @belgarathmth

    Probably because they though it was be cool to have a monk NPC, and maybe hadn't played one at lower levels because they didn't exist in BG1 back in the day? I dunno.

    Ultimately, none of the NPCs are about being maximized twinks. He's just a little more fragile than most.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited November 2012
    @Bigity, this issue has nothing to do with "maximized twinks". There is a huge, fundamental difference between "viable and balanced", and "maximized." The monk class has no use. None. It is barely above having a commoner in your party. Totally helpless. Third edition had a very good monk class. BG2 had a questionable, but still loved-by-many monk class. It was never balanced for BG1.

    EDIT: And, my problem isn't even with the fact that the monk class was never balanced for BG1, but rather, that the devs chose a useless class for a new NPC, which was a huge selling point for getting people to buy their game.
  • BigityBigity Member Posts: 98
    Again, BG has weak monks because they were forced into the game from an edition of D&D that wasn't even released yet.

    Doesn't mean they can't make an NPC out of one. Don't bring 'em along. Most of the NPCs are barely competent at what they do. He's just another one.

    I'm not sure I agree with all the completely useless stuff. AD&D was not balanced so that all 1st level (or even 5, or 10th) level characters were all the same. I'm not even sure it balanced at any point, you just played what you wanted to play.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Bigity, but, all the AD&D classes had something to contribute at first level. Something unique and special. This is patently not so with the SoA classes that were not meant to be in BG1. Not that I mind the PC playing one of those classes - I just mind new NPC's doing that, when they were one of the major selling points of the new version of the game.
  • BigityBigity Member Posts: 98
    Why though? He's still a new NPC, with voice, quests, etc.

    Not every adventurer is going to be elite.

    And it's not just that they weren't meant to be in BG1, is that they were not meant to exist in AD&D 2nd edition. Is it any wonder that nobody knows how to tweak them? They didn't exist.

    At least he was the free NPC :)
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Bigity, it's not that he's elite or not elite. He's sub-normal.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389

    @SandmanCCL, I don't think we really disagree all that much. We both seem to be disliking Rasaad's strategic potential, although perhaps for different reasons.

    Just to carry on a stimulating "nerd" discussion about it, even if he had decent stats, he'd still have the no-magical attacks problem. Unless there's a magical exotic blade that's been added somewhere that I don't know about yet.

    He could at least use +1 and +2 bullets if he had that sling proficiency as a first proficiency. His ability to attack from range should not be dependent upon being found when Charname is higher than first level, since Jaheira has a timer, and practically forces you to head straight to Nashkel if you like to use Khalid and her, as I do.

    My problem with his class is that any other class could make a better contribution in BG1. The only unique thing I can see that the monk brings to the table is Stunning Fist, which only lasts one round per level, and might start to become useful at later levels, if you can keep the monk alive that long.

    Compare this to the other "quadratic rather than linear" class, the mage/sorcerer. I guess some people might argue that Webs, Hastes (which will not work on an advanced monk, btw), and fireballs, as well as use of wands, at the end of BG1, are equivalent to a Stunning Fist that actually lasts enough rounds to be useful. But at least mages get Sleep spells and Identify spells, and possibly a familiar. Clerics can heal. Fighters can fight. Monks get... what, exactly, at low level?

    A well-written character class is supposed to have something to contribute throughout its career, from levels one to infinity. I just don't see it with the monk class. Any other class has something to bring to the table at level ONE.

    1. He's got Scimitar/Ninja-To/Wakizashi proficiency from the get-go. You find a magic one immediately upon trying to enter Nashkel (or maybe it was the mines) as long as you talk to Dorn in Friendly Arm Inn first. The non-magical problem fixes itself nearly as soon as it presents.

    2. I agree that it's stupid they gave him Katana AND Scimitar proficiency to begin with. Just one or the other, thanks. Gimme slings from the get-go.

    3. Right, which is why my problem is with his stats. If they went the whole min-max route with him, there would still be other better NPCs, so they should have made his stats better so the reason could be "his stats are good." But they aren't even that. Gimme a dude with max dex, and then those boots on top of it, and then we could have a guy that's fairly dodgey who gets a ton of attacks per round by the XP cap, who can at least find traps even if he can't disarm them. There's utility in that. There's still utility in stunning fist, too. I'm okay with a guy not being min/max, as long as they bring utility to the table. Quayle does this. Rasaad does not.

    4. Also true. A mage with 9 in every stat can still utilize wands and be effective if for that reason alone. A monk needs borderline broken stats in order to function early on as he can't make use of good gear. Monks are just alternate fighters right now but without the utility of being able to use gear that provides utility.
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    I knew it before the release!
    Monks sucks at the start. But This Rasaad is something =)
    Personaly, I like Neera and Dorn. They're OK. Dorn's sword is a bit OP. He's an equall substitute for Minsc.
    But Rassad... I realy don't get it how to use him early in the game.
    Of course give him the best +1, +2 stuff. Then a prof in single weapon style. Still this monk sucks at everything.
    The only reason I keep him - to explore all the new NPCs. New stuff, new dialogs etc.

    I really want to look into the eyes of the Rasaad's creators.
    Are they trolling us that way or what? =)
    You guys know the game well, you know it's a hard stuff to raise a monk, or a kensai on the first 8-9 levels.
    C'mon guys, Trent and others, give him some personal stuff, initial spells or something. Or even adequate stats!!!
    You knew that everebody wanted to play new NPCs, and then they only get negative emotions playing Rasaad...

    P.S.:
    WTF his boots
  • State_LemmingState_Lemming Member Posts: 375
    Personally I use him as a distraction, since he walks faster than anything else he can lure baddies into any killzone while remaining unscathed. Mostly I keep him around since he'll be far more useful in BG2 and I want an actual (plutonic) relationship with the guy prior to that.
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    I love Rasaad...I also love Khalid (I was giddy when i recruited him and Khalid made a comment about them both being calishite)

    I gave him the dex bracers from the gnoll stronghold, mixed with a +1 ring, he had ac2 at level 1 ( I have him at level 2 right now at AC1) and he is equipped with the Ninjato from the nashkel store, so he can do 2-9 damage. I have to admit I have to baby sit him a bit, on occasion. But I can also imagine the beast he will become as he keeps leveling.
  • MenthroMenthro Member Posts: 85
    I actually like him, If you take some time and nursmaid him along for a bit he becomes decent...as good as some other NPCs I could bring? Probably not, but he fits my playstyle. I just keep him well stocked with healing potions and make sure Khalid is there to actually tank. Hell, to be honest Rassad actually managed to single handedly clear the second level of the cloakwood mine by himself, I had Imoan scouting and Rassad sprinting around dropkicking people. The only person he had trouble with was the mage, and that's because she cast confusion. :P

    Like I said, nursemaid him along for a bit and he becomes DECENT. Not great, but decent.
  • kdalikdali Member Posts: 23
    Is there any way to make Rassad a monk/cleric?
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    kdali said:

    Is there any way to make Rassad a monk/cleric?

    monk/cleric is not a valid multi-/dualclass, so nope.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited December 2012
    I guess to answer my initial question: Yes, he sucks.

    He might not be as completely incompetant and terrible as he is now once he reaches 7th or 8th level but only being good for the last chapter of the game still makes you suck. I do enjoy his character however so I'll bring him along in BG2:EE (If there is one) but this will most likely be the only playthrough I use him in BG:EE.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,586
    edited December 2012

    Monks are abysmal in BG1 to begin with, so you give him crap stats on top of that? Totally ridiculous.

    So he's basically Faldorn without the druid spells? ;-)
  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467
    edited December 2012
    Rasaad is awesome. He just gets a bad rep when compared to Dorn who's critting for 30-40 damage. I got him using the belt that raises his armor vs. piercing (missile attacks) so he doesn't get randomly gibbed and have him run in and stun an enemy cleric or whatever. He's pretty sweet. He levels on the cleric table so he gets a good chunk of HP early on. Making him able to survive a few shots. And once I get to his quest (or wherever you get that cursed belt that raises strength to 19) he's going to have that baby thrown on, making his thac0 and damage very nice. You all just need to give him a shot and keep an open mind. Play to his strengths, he's not a tank, he's a melee support.

    Forgot to mention... bump up his hide in shadows only until it gets to a decent level, and place him ahead of time next to enemy casters... like I said, PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS!
  • Wolfie83Wolfie83 Member Posts: 3
    another good option is to use shadow keeper to change him to a Paladin or Fighter/Cleric dual class, and remove the monk speed :) quite doable, just leave everything with "Local Variable" under affects and his quests trigger fine in BG Docks
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    OP is genius. Saw it coming a mile away
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    "Is Rasaad Going To Suck?"

    Well he's a monk after all.

    I'm not a fan of monks being in the Forgotten Realms setting to begin with.
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    I had a good party with Rasaad up to lvl 6 before the anouncement of Baeloth made me reroll hehe ... He needs to be babied. I kept him out of even trivial combats, I just totally carried him the whole way. He gets lay on hands at level 7 and maybe with a bunch of magic gear he can start to be useful dunno ... I bet he's a beast in bg2
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited January 2013

    "Is Rasaad Going To Suck?"

    Well he's a monk after all.

    I'm not a fan of monks being in the Forgotten Realms setting to begin with.

    Not all Monks are from Kara-Tur. There are Monks of all kinds of FR Deities. Ilmater himself is a monk in 3E and I'm not sure about ADnD.

    If on the other hand you think that Monks don't fit a medieval setting, I would argue that this is not medieval Europe and if a Druid can turn into a Bear because-shut-up-he-can, then a Monk can train his body to withstand tons of physical and magical damage and deal some too, which seems more realistic to me than turning into a bear.
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