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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    You got it wrong, pal. like my nick, PsicoVic. My full comment was "
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Ya, the mage no longer has access to blindness in that encounter. Some of the other encounters wer modified, like fangberry cave is completely different, now.

    They hit the devs pretty hard with the "You cannot hit swarms with your axe, the game is bad" thing; it seems
    as in "You cannot say an entire game is bad because one type of enemy is difficult to kill if you do not have the adeccuate tools to do it".
    And as stated, It was modified, I suppose partly because of this. I do not feel it was needed, but it is good the developers hear the gamers who play and buy your game.


    edit: It was like people who have complaints about how the developers of a party-based game like bg have enemies with inmunities: "you cannot kill that golem with a blunt weapon, so I cannot kill them soloing a cleric in this party-based game with múltiple classes, the game is bad" "I can´t open the locked chests in Candlekeep in the prologue if I am not a thief, the game is unbalanced and forces you to choose a predetermined archtype" "In Tob all enemies have high magic resistance, so It is difficult to play a party with six mages, so even if I have eight companions with fighting capabilities, the game is bad"

    edit2: typos =(

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,416
    I can prattle off reasons why I dislike the game and it doesn’t involve the mechanics of combat. Actually it’s combat is probably its saving grace.

    I just did the fang berry quest and the layout of the cave is much better than it was before however. It’s deeper and now actually tiered properly like a tutorial cave should be.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    I am currently playing with a slayer in the DLC. You forfeit the support skills of the rogue and the spellcasting/animal companion of the ranger to get a highly specialized hybrid class. You have the thaco and hit-die of a fighter, medium armor, sneak attack damage and studied target, a favored-enemy-type skill that ignores spell resistance and works in all enemies, unlike its ranger counterpart.

    You have the benefits of the ranger combat style, so I picked dual-wielding combat and rolled a Half-orc with an orc double axe (you have it as a martial weapon if you are half-orc) as a frontline str-based fighter. I just wanted to try a str-based backstabber. I love rogues but with the dex-fighting mechanics you have to marry one or two weapon-types forever, like the weaponmasters, and my character is a flirty one.
    If you guess in what character I based my design (Why would you guess something like that, anyway?), guess no more!
    source.gif


    I took the Spawn slayer because you have the combat bonuses against large targets, the tough ones; and you only lose the lvl 7 skill. To be honest, I have a BIAS against the move action/swift action types. In spells or if the game was turn-based it will be more useful, but in a RT game it not makes an appreciable difference so I think you can safely trade that ability for the combat bonuses against big things with claws.
    giphy.gif

    I just found that the build works better with a two-handed combat style, using your weapon to deal insane amounts of damage. You can even use a bardiche or fauchard so with the extended range you can hit the enemies from behind your faithful meatshi... I mean tank-fighter type.
    With the "coup de grace" skill now spellcasters with debuff capabilities are more useful, but you really need a specialized spellcaster because if not, the enemies still save a lot vs spell.
    I found that the demoralize (cornugon smash, dazzling display, etc) is the most reliable debuff in the game, but does not allow you to sneak attack, so you still need to flank to backstab enemies. And for that you need a tank to focus the enemies on him and take the beatings for you. The slayer cannot be the frontline defense or he loses the edge.

    Right now the slayer is very good at hitting things with the "studied target" skill and dealing lots of pain to flanked enemies; but in the Dungeon you have limited slots for your party members, and the slayer, even if he hits hard, can only do that: Is a pure DPS and cannot fulfill another role. Trickery can be covered with a bard or an alchemist, you have plenty of checks with those, and in this game you really need high competence in your skills if you do not want to fail miserably, but
    He lacks versatility.
    If you need him to scout, for example (He can never be healer, support or debuffer/controller, and there are better classes for a tank) you need dexterity and light armor. Aaaaand that leave us the rogue, again ( you have the perks needed for the job for free when you level up). Maybe the slayer will work better for me in the OC.
    tumblr_odiud0KPpj1sgaqfho6_r1_250.gif



    So, time to go back to the design table again. Next, a rogue-slayer. Let us go back to light armor and weapons, my halforc is not pleased.
    tumblr_o70q90JHt61udnezho1_500.gif
    Next I will try a halforc slayer(menacing combat style)-thug (the chance to frighten your enemies with your dazzling display/cornugon smash is pure gold, and with dreadful carnage you automatically make a demoralize check to all enemies around when you kill an enemy, and you kill a lot).
    I think the slayer has the potential to be a better ranged fighter than a ranger, a arcane archer or a divine stalker, but I am going with a melee build for now.


    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    BelgarathMTH
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,720
    A little mod shoutout: thanks to Call of the Wild we can now finally play as Hunter, Bloodrager and Witch in P:K! :)

    VallmyrPsicoVic
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,595
    @PsicoVic , Wow, talk about synchronicity! I'm currently playing World of Warcraft, and to make it more fun, I just bought that movie on Amazon and started watching it a little at a time over the past couple of days. The expansion I'm currently working on is Warlords of Draenor, and that one happens to be the expansion that lines up best with the movie, unless you go all the way back to the original Warcraft rts game.

    PsicoVic
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,473

    The trick to Tartuccio is to have your high DPS characters rush him and leave your tanks behind with the main group. It's easier with Tristian, with his selective channelling, but don't be afraid to channel healing with Harrim during that fight if he's with you, you just might need to maneuver him so he doesn't heal Tartuccio. This last game, my Aldori Defender and Amiri rushed him and killed him before he got off a second fireball.

    Part of the reason I did the no reload run, and documented it all, was to show people it's no worse than the Baldur's Gate games. Once you know the encounters and have a handle on how to build your characters, you can get through the game without reloading once. I think part of it is that no good full walkthrough exists for the game right now, whereas the BG games have been documented to hell. I guess my no reload run could help, though, it's about the easiest way to run through the game, asides from doing the optional last chapter.

    How did you get to him? There's like... 11 kobolds in front of him, and he casts a fireball in under 6 seconds.

    I ended up winning by reflex saving with my monk on the first one. Saccing the monk on the second one in melee, and then having another character sac herself on the third one. After THAT, I rushed him.

    Anyways. I'm not saying it cannot be done. I just think it's a bit rougher than I expected since I dont have foresight on what to bring/use. Tartuccio would be much easier if I had a way to resist fire (I suspect I could get my hands on a scroll). Incidentally, is there spell failure in the game? Another idea I had was to see if peppering him at range would interrupt his fireballs.

    Incidentally. Havent found Tristian yet. Havent found anyone that wasnt in the manor with me, yet.

    Just had my character and Amiri do a charge right past the kobolds to him. I've just thundered through the fight and never bothered with fire resistance. The first fireball kills his guys, and if you rush him with 2 good damage dealers, he'll go down pretty quick, and they can get attacks of opportunity on him when he tries to cast.

    @scriver my first run Bokken gave me a bunch of Alchemist fires, and this was back when the game came out. I agree 100% what @PsicoVic said, that there are encounters in the game that you have to approach carefully and know the trick to. It's no different than the Mutamin's Garden in BG. If you know the trick and pick up the spell protection from petrification, the whole area's trivialized. Same thing with the swarms, when you know what they're vulnerable to, and how to control the field and maneuver your tank to block them, it's no big deal even on challenging. This is a sidequest, too. You don't have to do it, and there's nothing making you do it at level 2. You can swing back and take care of it at level 3, or even when you have a full party, instead of tackling it with just your starting 4.

    SorcererV1ct0rPsicoVic
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,944
    edited June 2019
    I think you misunderstand. As I said, I didn't have much trouble with the spider swarms either, as I knew from prior experience with PnP what a [Swarm] enemy means. The point that I'm trying to make is that since this knowledge is not part of general gamer knowledge/culture it was bad design of Owlcat to implement it the way they did -- ie just throwing them without a word of explanation at the level two player I in the very first side quest you get. Hence my simile of the asshole GM.

    As for Bokken: I went back and checked the patch logs and I remembered it correctly, the warning and the alchemist's fire gift were added in one of the first patches after feedback from the players.

    Hotfix 1.0.2 – September, 28th 2018:
    - Bokken will properly warn the player about the swarms in the cave and provide them with several flask of Alchemist's Fire. In addition, the tutorial about swarms and how to deal with them will be shown when entering the cave.
    [...]
    - Fangberry quest is very hard on low level. Resolution:
    Bokken warns about quest difficulty and gives 6 flasks of Alchemist's Fire.
    The special tutorial message is added about dealing with spider swarm.

    ThacoBell
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,473
    scriver wrote: »
    I think you misunderstand. As I said, I didn't have much trouble with the spider swarms either, as I knew from prior experience with PnP what a [Swarm] enemy means. The point that I'm trying to make is that since this knowledge is not part of general gamer knowledge/culture it was bad design of Owlcat to implement it the way they did -- ie just throwing them without a word of explanation at the level two player I in the very first side quest you get. Hence my simile of the asshole GM.

    As for Bokken: I went back and checked the patch logs and I remembered it correctly, the warning and the alchemist's fire gift were added in one of the first patches after feedback from the players.

    Hotfix 1.0.2 – September, 28th 2018:
    - Bokken will properly warn the player about the swarms in the cave and provide them with several flask of Alchemist's Fire. In addition, the tutorial about swarms and how to deal with them will be shown when entering the cave.
    [...]
    - Fangberry quest is very hard on low level. Resolution:
    Bokken warns about quest difficulty and gives 6 flasks of Alchemist's Fire.
    The special tutorial message is added about dealing with spider swarm.

    Meh, that's like 2-3 days after the originally release. May not have been the original best design, but they got flags in there to warn you damn fast. I don't particularly see it as a huge deal. So you get your butt kicked and have to reload and make sure you have what you need before you go back. Things like this are what make exploration dangerous, exciting and rewarding and make you learn and remember how to deal with situations. If this were a table top game, and you were dead after, sure that'd be a dick DM move. But in a video game, you can always reload. Except, in Last Azlanti mode ;)

    kanisathaPsicoVic
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,425
    Can you tell me how to destroy the big flower in the Other World?

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 358
    I just picked up this game. While I'm really enjoying the authentic D&D gameplay, I have to wonder if other people dislike the kingdom part that comes up very soon. It feels like game over at level 5.. like you achieved your end goal after which you don't adventure anymore.

    Adventuring is about slaying monsters. Running a kingdom is a completely different game. I wonder why they wanted that as a part of the core game.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,982
    1varangian wrote: »
    I just picked up this game. While I'm really enjoying the authentic D&D gameplay, I have to wonder if other people dislike the kingdom part that comes up very soon. It feels like game over at level 5.. like you achieved your end goal after which you don't adventure anymore.

    Adventuring is about slaying monsters. Running a kingdom is a completely different game. I wonder why they wanted that as a part of the core game.

    NOw you try understand why the land is called "stolen lands" and solve mysteries over an different land.

    PS : You can turn off your kingdom management. Just an advice. do your MQ first, then explore the world. This is a living world, nobody will wait for you

    PS 2 : After lv 10 takes an eternity to level up. On 100 hours of gameplay, i din't even reached lv 18.

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 358
    edited June 2019
    I did turn off the kingdom management immediately but sadly the long kingdom introduction already turned off my interest to continue. Running a kingdom is a full time job, something which retired adventurers might take on. So I kind of retired my Wizard at level 5 to rule his kingdom.

    BallpointMan
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,128
    1varangian wrote: »
    I did turn off the kingdom management immediately but sadly the long kingdom introduction already turned off my interest to continue. Running a kingdom is a full time job, something which retired adventurers might take on. So I kind of retired my Wizard at level 5 to rule his kingdom.

    Interesting. I've had the opposite happen (or near enough to it) - I'm invested in two things ar once: Managing my barony and doing the MQ. I think my only issue is that one or the other tends to fall to the back burner from time to time.

    Random question - are there any places/things I should do during specific acts?

    For example - I'm in the Troll Stronghold now clearing it. I just killed a powerful troll (Yikes did that fight take a lot of tries). Turns out, it was an enemy I was supposed to fight for a companion quest - but I had never met that companion (Ekun?).

    Ideally I would have gotten him before doing this quest. I did find Jubilhost(sp?) along the way, so that's nice.

    PsicoVic
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    If you do not like it, you can always turn off kingdom management, I think "game over" because of barony bankruptcy is not possible that way so you can play without worries.

    I have to say I invested more in the kingdom building part too. My baron (now king) spends his days clearing monster dens to conquer new lands, training advisors or building (Even Jubilost says so in his report). If only you do not have to suffer attacks every few months so you can do some serious terraforming in this godforsaken lands that would be fine for my overworked baron.

    They really improved the UI and added a fair number of new buildings since release. The mage tower to teleport between cities is fantastic, or the Aviary to issue build orders when you are outside your barony.
    Also all the different buildings you get rests on yor choices in the campaign, so I have a very different set of constructions available for my new baron.
    Vordekai Magic tower is crazy, a pity you have to forfeit Maevar and his dlc quest, something that IMHO it is not a fair trade
    Is it me or they (with due respect) dumbed down the "kingdom management" since release? Because In this playthrough I do not even saw the "worried or "troubled" state even after the Bloom chapter, something I did not think it was possible without selling the market rights to Brevoy at the start. And my new baron is not even Lawful.


    1varangian wrote: »

    For example - I'm in the Troll Stronghold now clearing it. I just killed a powerful troll (Yikes did that fight take a lot of tries). Turns out, it was an enemy I was supposed to fight for a companion quest - but I had never met that companion (Ekun?).
    There is also a little trick to this fight too, maybe you know already but Ekun gives you a hint( man, I love this game for this tricky fights)
    You can lure the troll into the light and it turns to stone so you can kill it easily

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,982
    1varangian wrote: »
    I did turn off the kingdom management immediately but sadly the long kingdom introduction already turned off my interest to continue. Running a kingdom is a full time job, something which retired adventurers might take on. So I kind of retired my Wizard at level 5 to rule his kingdom.

    You are not ruling an kingdom. You are ruling an small barony.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019

    Random question - are there any places/things I should do during specific acts?
    I do not know if it is what you ask, but there are several plot crossroads, events you can only watch if you do it in a specific order, have a specific companion, alignment, etc... but mostly the game encourages free exploration to an extent. Without major spoilers:

    For example, there are differences if you go to the bandit camp or go chase Mercucio; an event you cannot see If you finish too fast the troll compound quest (or if you visit Bartholomew too late), events and buildings are different if you make some specific choice when dealing with mites vs kobolds or the troll king vs Mercucio/Tartuk, if you go to battle the barbarians first or go hunt the traitor, save the city first or not, and even If you can recruit all your companions the order you can recruit them is different etc, etc.

    But you can do the no-timed sidequests, artisan quests and conquer the lands you can access in your current chapter in whatever order you want, as far as I know.

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,425
    The trick to Tartuccio is to have your high DPS characters rush him and leave your tanks behind with the main group. It's easier with Tristian, with his selective channelling, but don't be afraid to channel healing with Harrim during that fight if he's with you, you just might need to maneuver him so he doesn't heal Tartuccio. This last game, my Aldori Defender and Amiri rushed him and killed him before he got off a second fireball.

    Part of the reason I did the no reload run, and documented it all, was to show people it's no worse than the Baldur's Gate games. Once you know the encounters and have a handle on how to build your characters, you can get through the game without reloading once. I think part of it is that no good full walkthrough exists for the game right now, whereas the BG games have been documented to hell. I guess my no reload run could help, though, it's about the easiest way to run through the game, asides from doing the optional last chapter.

    How did you get to him? There's like... 11 kobolds in front of him, and he casts a fireball in under 6 seconds.

    I ended up winning by reflex saving with my monk on the first one. Saccing the monk on the second one in melee, and then having another character sac herself on the third one. After THAT, I rushed him.

    Anyways. I'm not saying it cannot be done. I just think it's a bit rougher than I expected since I dont have foresight on what to bring/use. Tartuccio would be much easier if I had a way to resist fire (I suspect I could get my hands on a scroll). Incidentally, is there spell failure in the game? Another idea I had was to see if peppering him at range would interrupt his fireballs.

    Incidentally. Havent found Tristian yet. Havent found anyone that wasnt in the manor with me, yet.

    Just had my character and Amiri do a charge right past the kobolds to him. I've just thundered through the fight and never bothered with fire resistance. The first fireball kills his guys, and if you rush him with 2 good damage dealers, he'll go down pretty quick, and they can get attacks of opportunity on him when he tries to cast.

    @scriver my first run Bokken gave me a bunch of Alchemist fires, and this was back when the game came out. I agree 100% what @PsicoVic said, that there are encounters in the game that you have to approach carefully and know the trick to. It's no different than the Mutamin's Garden in BG. If you know the trick and pick up the spell protection from petrification, the whole area's trivialized. Same thing with the swarms, when you know what they're vulnerable to, and how to control the field and maneuver your tank to block them, it's no big deal even on challenging. This is a sidequest, too. You don't have to do it, and there's nothing making you do it at level 2. You can swing back and take care of it at level 3, or even when you have a full party, instead of tackling it with just your starting 4.

    Can you tell me how to destroy the big flower in the Other World please?

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,416
    Build Question for you all:

    Currently I am playing a divine hunter and have committed to taking 4 levels of fighter to get the Point Blank Mastery (negates AoO while using range in melee), but was wondering if the trade off to dip into either Slayer (Study Target, Archery bonus feat), or Rogue (sneak attack, evasion, feat, lose AB) for two levels would be beneficial over the loss of Mercy and a smite evil use (+spells, but I can't determine what spells slots I am giving up).

    I also know that hitting level 20 is rare, but that is what I am working off of when creating this build. Currently I am 3 DH/1 F with the plan of getting to level 4 fighter ASAP, but if I do dip into rogue or slayer (or another class you might suggest) when should I take those levels?

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,595
    edited June 2019
    Kingdom management being designed as such a huge part of this game, and also critically tied in to the main story of the game, is one of the main reasons I stopped playing it. It frankly made the whole game not very much fun for me, with all the arbitrary time limits and storyline quests being dependent on certain kingdom events and attacks.

    In PoE, the very difficult and ultimately irrelevant Caed Nua management and dungeon diving that was part of it was also a reason that game ultimately failed for me.

    World of Warcraft made a similar mistake with both Warlords of Draennor and Legion, mostly because, in their case, since their business is based on releasing new expansions at least every two years, they always rendered previous "strongholds" parts of their game completely irrelevant to new, leveling players, and a complete waste of time. They restricted flight, an established crucial part of their game, behind the completion of stronghold quests in both WoD and Legion. I think this was a very terrible mistake on their part. Their player base is withering, and now they are trying to re-release the very first version of their game from way back in the early 2000's as "Classic", to desperately hang on to their constantly shrinking remaining player base, who are getting older and susceptible to nostalgia-based marketing ploys.

    Baldur's Gate 2 and also Neverwinter Nights 2 got it right. There were strongholds that roleplaying players could really get into, and to feel like they were making a difference with their leadership of those strongholds, if they used their imaginations and were immersed into their characters. But, mechanically, they made no difference to the final outcome of the game or to the player's story, and were completely optional. You could succeed in those D&D games with pretty much no penalty if you chose to ignore the strongholds completely.

    I've said before, my opinion is that, although PKM is a very good D&D simulation if you can work around a lot of its flaws, centering it on kingdom management was a very bad mistake.

    Yes, I know, turn it down, turn it off, blah, blah. Doing that doesn't change the base design flaw in the story, as far as I can tell. I guess maybe I might try it again at some point in the future if anybody can honestly tell me that the main story of the game isn't damaged in any way by doing that. But heck, within the first hours of the game, the main story puts you in charge of this kingdom and tells you that managing it is your main priority and your character's motivation, so I really don't see how this (sorry, I think it's bad) story could be improved by turning that off.

    EDIT: LOL, this comment turned out to be my 5000th, and got me a new forum badge. My 4000th was also kind of negative. In fact, my 4000th comment was part of a brouhaha that got started when a couple of forum friends and I started a guild in the Neverwinter MMO, that ended very, very badly. I wonder if the universe is trying to tell me something via karma about refraining from posting negative, critical comments of games online? :)

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMageJuliusBorisov
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    @deltago Why not ranger? you have the craziest lvl 1 spells: Aspect of the falcon and Hurricane bow. They are like weapon focus, improved critical and weapon specialization, plus +3Per; all in a pretty all-in-two spell package. And you could (and should) pick those feats anyway. You need wisdom to cast as a ranger, so it would be tricky to pick your stats (DH use cha for spells and abilities) and to be able to cast chamaleon and sense vitals too with more levels.


    The only option you have to get PBM without fighter levels is 6 levels in ranger or slayer. As a slayer or ranger you will have more useful perks for a marksman ( I do not think you are going to use heavy armor, tower shields or dueling swords as a DH).

    Since you cannot have Aura of Righteusness (lvl17) I suppose you can go for 14 DH (for righteous hunter)/ 6 ranger or slayer for PBM ( But do not expect to reach lvl 20 in the OC, honestly, only in the DLC) instead of the 4 fighter levels for weapon specialization+PBM.

    -With 6 lvl ranger you´ll have the combat style plus the favored terrain and 2 favored enemy+shocking burst/touch of flame or freebooters bane/bond and also more spells( including aspect of the falcon and hurricane bow, I repeat this for good measure, they are that good), more skill points and almost the same skillset as a DH.

    -As a lvl 6 slayer you`ll have studied target (very good ability), 2d6 sneak attack and you do not lose as many feats because of the 3 slayer talents you can choose including combat style. Also more skills and better sinergy with DH.
    In my experience as a ranged slayer you have to go near the enemies to backstab them, and a ranger or bard can do the same with sense vitals` spell. As a marksman you will be far, and you´ll lose your full attack if you move near to backstab, so usually SA is not a big deal but it is a nice adition.


    -With 4 or 6 lvl of fighter you will have 2 or 3 feats more but the slayer and ranger´s combat style feats, unlike the fighter´s, do not require to fullfill the prerequisites, you just pick them and start firing (you can have manyshot or Improved precise shot at lvl 6 for example).
    In the OC you have a bow that allows you to cast Aspect of the falcon, so feel free to go with fighter-DH or slayer if it pleases you (no hurricane bow tho, unless you pick sorcerer/mage lvl. For whatever reason magus, even arcane archers do not have hurricane bow :o Druids have aspect of the falcon but no hurricane bow. Only rangers have both at lvl 1 caster lvl).
    I will not pick rogue over Slayer for this build unless you are desperate for evasion, weapon finesse (and why you want the latter if you have point-blank-master? Also weapon finesse without finesse training is garbage anyway) or you really want to use trickery or magic device. 2 levels of rogue will give you evasion and skills if you wish but you lose AB.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,409
    I mean, it's a struggle to keep your kingdom running, I finished the game while there were riots going on. It's not just, "Ah, I'll spend the rest of my days in a castle."

    It's like AW CRAP, MONSTERS, OH NO BARBARIANS, AH GEEEEEEZ WAR! And a constant rush of running around fixing problems as more arise.

    Then you have some downtime to build things, explore, upgrade things. But really this game is the most BG1-like game I've played with exploring wilderness zones and investigation-like plot.

    bleusteelPsicoVicDrHappyAngry
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,416
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    @deltago Why not ranger? you have the craziest lvl 1 spells: Aspect of the falcon and Hurricane bow. They are like weapon focus, improved critical and weapon specialization, plus +3Per; all in a pretty all-in-two spell package. And you could (and should) pick those feats anyway. You need wisdom to cast as a ranger, so it would be tricky to pick your stats (DH use cha for spells and abilities) and to be able to cast chamaleon and sense vitals too with more levels.


    The only option you have to get PBM without fighter levels is 6 levels in ranger or slayer. As a slayer or ranger you will have more useful perks for a marksman ( I do not think you are going to use heavy armor, tower shields or dueling swords as a DH).

    Since you cannot have Aura of Righteusness (lvl17) I suppose you can go for 14 DH (for righteous hunter)/ 6 ranger or slayer for PBM ( But do not expect to reach lvl 20 in the OC, honestly, only in the DLC) instead of the 4 fighter levels for weapon specialization+PBM.

    -With 6 lvl ranger you´ll have the combat style plus the favored terrain and 2 favored enemy+shocking burst/touch of flame or freebooters bane/bond and also more spells( including aspect of the falcon and hurricane bow, I repeat this for good measure, they are that good), more skill points and almost the same skillset as a DH.

    -As a lvl 6 slayer you`ll have studied target (very good ability), 2d6 sneak attack and you do not lose as many feats because of the 3 slayer talents you can choose including combat style. Also more skills and better sinergy with DH.
    In my experience as a ranged slayer you have to go near the enemies to backstab them, and a ranger or bard can do the same with sense vitals` spell. As a marksman you will be far, and you´ll lose your full attack if you move near to backstab, so usually SA is not a big deal but it is a nice adition.


    -With 4 or 6 lvl of fighter you will have 2 or 3 feats more but the slayer and ranger´s combat style feats, unlike the fighter´s, do not require to fullfill the prerequisites, you just pick them and start firing (you can have manyshot or Improved precise shot at lvl 6 for example).
    In the OC you have a bow that allows you to cast Aspect of the falcon, so feel free to go with fighter-DH or slayer if it pleases you (no hurricane bow tho, unless you pick sorcerer/mage lvl. For whatever reason magus, even arcane archers do not have hurricane bow :o Druids have aspect of the falcon but no hurricane bow. Only rangers have both at lvl 1 caster lvl).
    I will not pick rogue over Slayer for this build unless you are desperate for evasion, weapon finesse (and why you want the latter if you have point-blank-master? Also weapon finesse without finesse training is garbage anyway) or you really want to use trickery or magic device. 2 levels of rogue will give you evasion and skills if you wish but you lose AB.

    If Pathfinder had Zen Archery, I'd go Divine Hunter/Ranger in a heartbeat, but having to invest in 3 attributes can really dampen a character IMO.

    I will also say, I am not looking at the finished build, but the journey of the build. Waiting 6 levels to get access to one spell isn't worth it IMO (especially when I am also attempting to get Pally spells ASAP) especially when if I dip into Rogue or Bard and take UMD I can just cast that spell from a scroll with a 1 level investment.

    So the journey so far has my character at 3 levels of Divine Hunter (Smite Evil, Pally Saves and Shared Precision are great to have in the early going) and am now looking to invest in Fighter till lvl 7 (four levels) to get Point-Blank Mastery as soon as possible, so if a enemy does break off from my meat shields, I can tank without gimping on AB or provoking AoO every round. PBM prerequisites aren't that bad either. Just 4 lvls of Fighter, weapon specialization and in turn weapon focus. +2 Damage, +1 AB, (while getting Armour Training and bravery and two bonus feats in the process) doesn't feel like I am giving up anything of important.

    But looking at the end of the journey, at level 15 and 16 of a Divine Hunter, I am only getting another Mercy and an extra Smite Evil and I was wondering if it might be beneficial to dip elsewhere ahead of time.

    I honestly think the choices are:
    Divine Hunter: Mercy + extra smite + Pally spells
    Fighter: Weapon Training + Bravery + Feat
    Rogue: Evasion (works nicely with pally saves) + UMD + SA + Rogue Talent (lose AB)
    Slayer (Vanguard): Study Target + One Archery Feat (Teamwork Feat + the ability to give that feat to another)
    Archaeologist: UMD + Luck + Uncanny Dodge + Bard Talent and Cantrips (lose AB)

    I just don't know what of the above will be more beneficial mid to late game as restartitis has me killing the Stag Lord and pretty much restarting the game for different reasons.

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,425
    Okay, the boss fights in this game are retarded and poorly designed.

    SPOILER

    How am i supposed to beat a Owlbear Treant with just one character?

    Couldn't the Old Gnome give me the option of taking more than one party member for the fight?

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 510
    Okay, the boss fights in this game are retarded and poorly designed.

    SPOILER

    How am i supposed to beat a Owlbear Treant with just one character?

    Couldn't the Old Gnome give me the option of taking more than one party member for the fight?

    Ranged. It’s pretty easy to kite as it moves very slowly.

    The party arbitration window pops up asking how you’d like to split the party. Unless they’ve changed something you can split the party up however you want.

    PsicoVicDrHappyAngry
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Okay, the boss fights in this game are retarded and poorly designed.

    SPOILER

    How am i supposed to beat a Owlbear Treant with just one character?

    Couldn't the Old Gnome give me the option of taking more than one party member for the fight?

    Ranged. It’s pretty easy to kite as it moves very slowly.

    The party arbitration window pops up asking how you’d like to split the party. Unless they’ve changed something you can split the party up however you want.

    Exactly, as far as i remember you fight the owlbear with a team of 3 and the other with a team of 3. Just use fire, shoot and run and the slowest owlbear ever made dies. Maybe it is a bug?

    Here we go again with the "Some fights have a trick and require strategy, a particular type of weapons or spells or equipment, I cannot win everything charging and using brute force, the game is bad" theme. It is not retarded or poorly designed, It is just as the developers intended: A tricky fight that you can win easily if you found how to do it properly. there are plenty in this game and other games of this kind. As said before:
    I agree 100% what @PsicoVic said, that there are encounters in the game that you have to approach carefully and know the trick to. It's no different than the Mutamin's Garden in BG. If you know the trick and pick up the spell protection from petrification, the whole area's trivialized. Same thing with the swarms, when you know what they're vulnerable to, and how to control the field and maneuver your tank to block them, it's no big deal even on challenging.



    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    deltago wrote: »

    I honestly think the choices are:
    Divine Hunter: Mercy + extra smite + Pally spells
    Fighter: Weapon Training + Bravery + Feat
    Rogue: Evasion (works nicely with pally saves) + UMD + SA + Rogue Talent (lose AB)
    Slayer (Vanguard): Study Target + One Archery Feat (Teamwork Feat + the ability to give that feat to another)
    Archaeologist: UMD + Luck + Uncanny Dodge + Bard Talent and Cantrips (lose AB)

    I just don't know what of the above will be more beneficial mid to late game as restartitis has me killing the Stag Lord and pretty much restarting the game for different reasons.
    Another option: two levels of barbarian. As a DH you have high dex so you can take advantage of uncanny dodge. You also have increased speed to outrun your enemies, barbarian rage, reckless stance, full bab and access to perception and mobility skills.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    DrHappyAngry
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,425
    edited June 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Okay, the boss fights in this game are retarded and poorly designed.

    SPOILER

    How am i supposed to beat a Owlbear Treant with just one character?

    Couldn't the Old Gnome give me the option of taking more than one party member for the fight?

    Ranged. It’s pretty easy to kite as it moves very slowly.

    The party arbitration window pops up asking how you’d like to split the party. Unless they’ve changed something you can split the party up however you want.

    It must be a bug cuz It forces me to remove all party members except the main character.


    Also sometimes my computer shuts down when i run the game for 30 minutes.

    Post edited by ShapiroKeatsDarkMage on
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 600
    edited June 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »

    Also sometimes my computer shuts down when i run the game for 30 minutes.

    o.o
    My old desktop also shut down when overheated if I played some games in there. Does it happen with other games?

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,473
    I finished a no reload run with my kingdom at serene for about half of the time, so it can be done. It's not a terrible idea to save scum your first time through on the kingdom rolls, at least until you have a good handle on the mechanics. I actually rather enjoyed the kingdom management aspect. It was like what BG2 and NWN2 were only playing at. But they made most of it completely optional, you can just turn it off if it's not your bag. Most of the consequences of having an awesome kingdom really played out in the second to last chapter. The biggest thing is to look at what stat affects advisors scores for the role they're in, and if they're party members give them items to buff that stat. If they're not people you take regularly, you can even waste attribute feats bumping relevant stats, like pump up Val's charisma to make her a better diplomat. Reg makes the hands down best general if you make him a dragon disciple for the +4 strength and give him a belt of strength.

    @deltago I wouldn't worry much about getting point blank mastery on an archer. You can control the board to the point where nobody should be engaging in melee with your archers and mages, or at least it should be rare enough that it's not worth dumping a feat into and going 4 fighter levels. Losing out on 4 inquisitor levels really hurts if you're going that route. You can replace the need for those feats by thinking strategically and making sure to block enemies from getting to the rear. Those damn Dweomer cats are a pain when they rush your mages, though, which is why I generally prioritize them in any fight.

    BelgarathMTHdeltagoPsicoVic
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