Also I thought they would at least get the game to 64bit before they launched the game to sell. Cause if I bought the game because it ran on my 32bit machine and then was later told that I would need to have a 64bit bit machine. I would be pi$$ed
I get what you're saying, but in all fairness, but who the hell's running a 32 bit box these days? Asides from a few businesses stuck on it for super specific apps, everyone should be on a 64 bit box now. XP's no longer supported, and win7's on the way out (which people were definitely encouraged to go 64 bit on). Us Linux users have been on it even longer.
Someone is because Microsoft is still selling 32bit versions of their windows 10, and it is also preloaded on computers that are being sold.
I think they have been pretty clear that they are only showing their work in progress and they're still figuring out what direction to take their graphics engine work. If you review the last stream they stress this as they show off the temple tile group.
I don't think Trent is dodging questions or being dishonest about new content to the campaigns either. He put his foot down at the start and outlined what was within the realm of possible for development and what was outside of that scope. Then they opened up the Trello for items within that scope to be reviewed and discussed. However various groups took this to mean that voting for an option would change the course of development what what they outlined. There was some degree of success in changing the focus of development but when pushed again Trent explained how to edit the OC module, he repeated this several times. Then a certain group in the community which is behind the 300+ trello card released an "open letter" which Trent responded to directly live on stream, once again stressing that the community should work together to make the changes they want. This week again Trent responded twice to the very vocal and organized minority, while he is clearly not keen on the idea.
I don't think there is anything which will save the OC or ever make it popular. Actually I think the higher you raise the profile of the OC the more you diminish the true worth of NWN which is in the creative and collaborative aspects of the game.
I think if someone is holding their breath for a surprise total revamp of the OC and all old art content redone on March 27th then..... yeah.... I personally would not believe that but ppl are free to believe anything they want to believe.
I am not holding my breath if that statement was directed at me. At least not for the OC, I am more interested in the statement they made about getting the toolset code to compile with an updated C++ builder.
Don't know how you translated what I said to "all old assets being done at launch. "
I was stating my opinion of how I interpreted what was being said during the stream.
Also I thought they would at least get the game to 64bit before they launched the game to sell. Cause if I bought the game because it ran on my 32bit machine and then was later told that I would need to have a 64bit bit machine. I would be pi$$ed
I get what you're saying, but in all fairness, but who the hell's running a 32 bit box these days? Asides from a few businesses stuck on it for super specific apps, everyone should be on a 64 bit box now. XP's no longer supported, and win7's on the way out (which people were definitely encouraged to go 64 bit on). Us Linux users have been on it even longer.
Someone is because Microsoft is still selling 32bit versions of their windows 10, and it is also preloaded on computers that are being sold.
That's why I said a few businesses with specific needs. Even a normal consumer looks at it and knows more bits is better. (not that it necessarily is). Seriously, somebody chime in if they're actually running a 32bit OS. I really think it's an edge case these days.
It's just in response to an often repeated sentiment that Beamdog is holding something up their sleeve. I don't see any sign of that, I think they've been above and beyond honest and upfront with the development process, but they still get held to expectations that are often unreasonable.
I don't think this early of a release is a good idea but I do think they have given a very good/honest idea of the incomplete state of the development even after the March 27th release.
It's just in response to an often repeated sentiment that Beamdog is holding something up their sleeve. I don't see any sign of that, I think they've been above and beyond honest and upfront with the development process, but they still get held to expectations that are often unreasonable.
I don't think this early of a release is a good idea but I do think they have given a very good/honest idea of the incomplete state of the development even after the March 27th release.
"incomplete state of development"? They are releasing an enhanced version of a full game, how is that incomplete by any means?
@TrentOster however, has said many times that NWN is his dearest project and flagship, to an extent. So I find it unlikely that this decision was taken on a whim. So while I disagree, I will keep hoping for the best.
Ok so there is only one guy in this thread who isn’t concerned about this decision and he would be happy with MS Pac-Man ee if it didn’t have any bugs
LOL! Who's the one guy, me? Just because I'm not ready to leap to conclusions without knowing all the facts, makes me unconcerned, eh? Okay, then.
The decision might be a bad one, and it might be a good one. I don't have enough information to form a concrete conclusion. Perhaps you do, and that's fine.
I'm guessing they have to test the waters to see how much they can commit to updating the art assets which is a ton of work. I bet everyone would love nothing more than to see the entire game updated like Hall of Justice.
Combining new and old assets will look really out of place unfortunately.
Ok so there is only one guy in this thread who isn’t concerned about this decision and he would be happy with MS Pac-Man ee if it didn’t have any bugs
LOL! Who's the one guy, me? Just because I'm not ready to leap to conclusions without knowing all the facts, makes me unconcerned, eh? Okay, then.
The decision might be a bad one, and it might be a good one. I don't have enough information to form a concrete conclusion. Perhaps you do, and that's fine.
Anyway, have a good day.
-JFK
Well, with the absence of positive information you need to plan for the worse. That is just logical. Plan for the worse, hope for the best.
It isn’t like Beamdog is keeping awesome news from everyone.
Well, with the absence of positive information you need to plan for the worse. That is just logical. Plan for the worse, hope for the best.
It isn’t like Beamdog is keeping awesome news from everyone.
NWN:EE is launching with 16 years worth of developer and community made content.
The game works better with modern UI's.
Gamespy has been replaced.
Steam workshop has been added.
Vibrancy restored so NWN no longer looks washed out on modern hardware.
Ambient Occlusion added.
Shiny water updated.
Spec map support added.
Support for additional textures on models added.
Lighting updated.
To anyone coming into NWN for the first time they are going to have more hours of unique content available than Skyrim and quite frankly, a better modding community.
All for $20.
And we get some new toys, the possibility of future content and bug fixes. More importantly, we get an infusion of new blood into the community.
Some people got their hopes up for every model, texture, animation and particle effect in the game to be redone from scratch alongside every random idea they had ever had in the shower.
...Well that was an unrealistic burden of expectation to place on a team of 7 people.
Furthermore, it is both unrealistic and unfair for people to demand a dramatic increase in the Enhanced Editions scope while also denying it the additional resources and visability that comes from being sold on the worlds largest digital marketplace.
Last year I would have given my right arm for better UI support and NAT punching. Last year, when NWN was being kept alive by several hundred people and the game had become a urban legend to younger generations.
There are some bug fixes that are needed to regain parity with 1.69 in terms of PW support. But nothing that is unrealistic for the launch window. If people see that as important then they need to ask for it on Trello, the forums and the Friday stream instead of placing the focus on cosmetics.
I followed the original nwn from the very moment it was announced. I beta the original nwn as well as the ee. I played it for years even after nwn2 came out. Never once have I multi play or pw.
New people will see the Original Campaign and the dated graphics and say “enhanced?”. If you remember how long the original development cycle was by the time the original nwn came out the graphics were dated. The oc was rushed. Many of the players and reviewers noted that. Reviewers don’t give a damn about resources. I want Beamdog to succeed. I worry that this may not be enough. If it is, awesome.
I followed the original nwn from the very moment it was announced. I beta the original nwn as well as the ee. I played it for years even after nwn2 came out. Never once have I multi play or pw.
New people will see the Original Campaign and the dated graphics and say “enhanced?”. If you remember how long the original development cycle was by the time the original nwn came out the graphics were dated. The oc was rushed. Many of the players and reviewers noted that. Reviewers don’t give a damn about resources. I want Beamdog to succeed. I worry that this may not be enough. If it is, awesome.
I do admit, this game is pretty bug free.
Honestly though, considering how well the 2 Baldur's Gate EE games have sold, I don't think we've got anything to worry about.
There'll always be morons who whine and complain about graphics and then slink away back to Overwatch or whatever vice they love.
I followed the original nwn from the very moment it was announced. I beta the original nwn as well as the ee. I played it for years even after nwn2 came out. Never once have I multi play or pw.
New people will see the Original Campaign and the dated graphics and say “enhanced?”. If you remember how long the original development cycle was by the time the original nwn came out the graphics were dated. The oc was rushed. Many of the players and reviewers noted that. Reviewers don’t give a damn about resources. I want Beamdog to succeed. I worry that this may not be enough. If it is, awesome.
I do admit, this game is pretty bug free.
All the content from the OC and both expansions still exists. The Premium modules have been restored. There are thousands of single player/co-op modules on The Vault.
And with a new generation of gamers being exposed to NWN and the flexibility of the toolset there is no reason not to expect even more new single player content created by new and returning players.
As for reviews... I hardly think it matters for HD/Remake/Re-Release/Enhanced Editions.
You could MadLib the vast majority of remaster reviews:
_____ is a _____ of the classic video game released _____ years ago by _____. The game boasts _____, _____ and _____ but keeps the classic gameplay and visual style of the original, warts and all.
It's difficult to separate _____ from nostalgia. I remember when I was _____ years old when I would play _____ long into the night when I should have been studying and after a few hours with the game I found myself being swept back into that world.
The controls are clunky and the user interface is far from elegant and the graphics have not aged well but old fans of the series wouldn't have it any other way. I would have liked to have seen _____, and _____ but the features added are adequate enough to call this a _____ release.
Old fans of the series will buy this regardless and if you have never played _____ before and have been wondering what all the fuss is about then there has never been a better time to pick up the game.
Go look at reviews for any of the big HD/Remasters/Re-Releases on MetaCritic and they read pretty much like boilerplate.
And if someone cares enough to give NWN:EE a genuine review then they are probably a fan of the series.
As long as NWN:EE runs, has some improvements over the original and isn't $120 I'm sure reviews will be quite kind. And if not, NWN:EE will still probably sell well based on the reputation of the original and the fact that NWN has been in the top 10 list over at GOG for years.
Small correction, it's several thousand players or possibly over ten thousand ppl depending on guesstimations that still kept NWN active. Just the persistent worlds alone reach nearly a thousand nightly concurrent server logins collectively.
Also if new players buy NWN only for the OC and judge it on solely on the OC then that is a messaging problem because that was never the main focus in the way it is with other games. Even without knowing that when you start a new game you are given several options, including all of the individual campaigns, the premium modules, as well as loading any other module. The question of "what's enhanced?" is far more important to players that create or use custom content and play on persistent worlds, in terms of a platform to play or create content there is little difference.
For those that insist on the OC being their first and primary experience with NWN then I don't think anything can be done to significantly improve that experience. Most of the suggestions in regards to the OC are the niche of the niche nitpicks and feature requests that potential new customers haven't requested. Demoting the campaign by renaming it to "NWN: The Wailing Death" bring it in line with the expansion packs would be the best option.
It's not impossible to do it right, look at what Larian did with their tutorials of the gm client as well as their 4 hour gm demo game with Matt Mercer as gm and several youtube or twitch personalities as his players. NWN arguably has far more to promote and explain to a potential new audience but so far there is no promo material on those important features. Bioware also used to host extensive resources for builders and modders of all sorts, none of which is available from an equivalent Beamdog page, if you want to find some of it you have to search on the vault (unofficial 3rd party site) and know what you're looking for.
Here are some links from randomly chosen archive dates that illustrate the differences in messaging and information/support between then and now.
Small correction, it's several thousand players or possibly over ten thousand ppl depending on guesstimations that still kept NWN active. Just the persistent worlds alone reach nearly a thousand nightly concurrent server logins collectively.
Huge props to all of those people keeping the light on.
Launch going from a year away to a few weeks speaks for itself. Concerning? A little. If you take s positive outlook one could speculate that things are going extremely well given Trent has personally said he doesn’t want to release a half baked mess that’ll get canned in the reviews. At the end of the day Beamdog wants to make money and NWN has the potential of eclipsing all their other projects in that regard IMO. Them releasing it this early is a little concerning but I must admit I trust them not to be idiots and to get it right, given their history which speaks for itself.
Launch going from a year away to a few weeks speaks for itself. Concerning? A little. If you take s positive outlook one could speculate that things are going extremely well given Trent has personally said he doesn’t want to release a half baked mess that’ll get canned in the reviews. At the end of the day Beamdog wants to make money and NWN has the potential of eclipsing all their other projects in that regard IMO. Them releasing it this early is a little concerning but I must admit I trust them not to be idiots and to get it right, given their history which speaks for itself.
Basically what I am trying to say. You said it better.
Launch going from a year away to a few weeks speaks for itself. Concerning? A little. If you take s positive outlook one could speculate that things are going extremely well given Trent has personally said he doesn’t want to release a half baked mess that’ll get canned in the reviews. At the end of the day Beamdog wants to make money and NWN has the potential of eclipsing all their other projects in that regard IMO. Them releasing it this early is a little concerning but I must admit I trust them not to be idiots and to get it right, given their history which speaks for itself.
I'm very concerned, is there a reason it needs to be released? Steam has how many early access titles these days? They're quite capable of having some income from the game from early access while they continue to push new content and updates alongside selling of DLC like premium modules without pushing a sudden unexpectedly early full release.
This to me is very worrying, particularly after they'd only about a month ago suggested release would be in summer and I felt that might have been too early already if they wanted any sort of good publicity on their official launch with enough new content, features, premium modules and the like to encourage the community to adopting the new release over the one we all know so very well. The communities I regularly visit are already very split about a transition to EE because they do not feel there is enough new content to justify it (I disagree, but that's why I bought in early) or aren't familiar with the new content because the steam page hasn't been updated every to my knowledge and that's as much effort alot put into seeing what is different.
Then again there is functionality very much missing from EE that is available in 1.69, NWNx on Windows is just one of the things some servers will require to make such a transition (alongside time to convert things that rely on parts that have changed and test them). Even if they were to change to Linux (and having to learn how to fully trouble shoot it, set it up and everything else for those that aren't already intimately familiar which would be most that choose windows over Linux I imagine) there is NWNx functionality that is also still missing at this time that some rely upon.
I'm going to tag @JuliusBorisov here because even if he doesn't reply to it, I want him to at least read this comment (and the rest of this thread) so he can take the concerns of the community to the rest of the Beamdog team working on NWN:EE and maybe just get that Steam page updated as well. . .
NWN2 is so much better in every way except for a crappy UI. Two facts - a better game and a crappier UI - that make NWN2EE a much better idea.
Still getting it, though, because I game at 4K and the current game is almost unplayable at 4K.
Because Trent Oster worked on the original NWN, it was his baby. NWN2 was done by Obsidian. Also the original NWN needs more updating than the 2nd one.
NWN2 is so much better in every way except for a crappy UI. Two facts - a better game and a crappier UI - that make NWN2EE a much better idea.
Still getting it, though, because I game at 4K and the current game is almost unplayable at 4K.
Because Trent Oster worked on the original NWN, it was his baby. NWN2 was done by Obsidian. Also the original NWN needs more updating than the 2nd one.
This, plus Obsidian took NWN2 in a direction Trent didn't approve of, trying to make it a more BG-like single player game, rather than the multiplayer toolset that he intended it to be.
Worry not, the team have been aware of this thread since the first post in it. And all the feedback that is being shared, not only in this thread but everywhere on this forum, Steam, Reddit and a few other sites, is being passed to the team.
I'm going to tag @JuliusBorisov here because even if he doesn't reply to it, I want him to at least read this comment (and the rest of this thread) so he can take the concerns of the community to the rest of the Beamdog team working on NWN:EE and maybe just get that Steam page updated as well. . .
NWN2 is so much better in every way except for a crappy UI. Two facts - a better game and a crappier UI - that make NWN2EE a much better idea.
Still getting it, though, because I game at 4K and the current game is almost unplayable at 4K.
False. NWN2 was only better for Mask of the Betrayer, which also has an amazing soundtrack. Main OC boring, the other ones had plenty of nifty tricks which materialised only too late in their campaigns.
NWN2 is so much better in every way except for a crappy UI. Two facts - a better game and a crappier UI - that make NWN2EE a much better idea.
Still getting it, though, because I game at 4K and the current game is almost unplayable at 4K.
Because Trent Oster worked on the original NWN, it was his baby. NWN2 was done by Obsidian. Also the original NWN needs more updating than the 2nd one.
This, plus Obsidian took NWN2 in a direction Trent didn't approve of, trying to make it a more BG-like single player game, rather than the multiplayer toolset that he intended it to be.
I actually wish that NWN was more single-player oriented. This is why MotB was so good. @TrentOster , when you release future campaigns and premium modules, could we please have them more similar to Planescape Torment and Baldur's gate?
@Dark_Ansem If I'm frank, I think NWN2's OC is better than MotB. Granted, its an Epic Level campaign and I don't particularly care for those, but I didn't really like Rashmen, and I didn't particularly care for Safiya or Gann. However, I concur that NWN2 overall isn't better than NWN. NWN has always been a smoother gaming experience for me. Even 1.69 NWN runs smoothly on Windows 7, while NWN2 consistently has crashing and lag issues, as well as the overall gameplay when it isn't having a heart attack being incredibly stiff and having dumb animations.
Also, I don't understand people's issues when it came to playing NWN 1.69 on modern hardware. It runs almost flawlessly on my Windows 7 computer at 1920x1080 without pretty much any lag. Am I missing something?
Comments
I don't think Trent is dodging questions or being dishonest about new content to the campaigns either. He put his foot down at the start and outlined what was within the realm of possible for development and what was outside of that scope. Then they opened up the Trello for items within that scope to be reviewed and discussed. However various groups took this to mean that voting for an option would change the course of development what what they outlined. There was some degree of success in changing the focus of development but when pushed again Trent explained how to edit the OC module, he repeated this several times. Then a certain group in the community which is behind the 300+ trello card released an "open letter" which Trent responded to directly live on stream, once again stressing that the community should work together to make the changes they want. This week again Trent responded twice to the very vocal and organized minority, while he is clearly not keen on the idea.
I don't think there is anything which will save the OC or ever make it popular. Actually I think the higher you raise the profile of the OC the more you diminish the true worth of NWN which is in the creative and collaborative aspects of the game.
I think if someone is holding their breath for a surprise total revamp of the OC and all old art content redone on March 27th then..... yeah.... I personally would not believe that but ppl are free to believe anything they want to believe.
Don't know how you translated what I said to "all old assets being done at launch. "
I was stating my opinion of how I interpreted what was being said during the stream.
Heck, I would have paid $20 just for the UI support and to have the game in my steam library.
I must be a really cheap date.
I don't think this early of a release is a good idea but I do think they have given a very good/honest idea of the incomplete state of the development even after the March 27th release.
@TrentOster however, has said many times that NWN is his dearest project and flagship, to an extent. So I find it unlikely that this decision was taken on a whim. So while I disagree, I will keep hoping for the best.
The decision might be a bad one, and it might be a good one. I don't have enough information to form a concrete conclusion. Perhaps you do, and that's fine.
Anyway, have a good day.
-JFK
Combining new and old assets will look really out of place unfortunately.
It isn’t like Beamdog is keeping awesome news from everyone.
- The game works better with modern UI's.
- Gamespy has been replaced.
- Steam workshop has been added.
- Vibrancy restored so NWN no longer looks washed out on modern hardware.
- Ambient Occlusion added.
- Shiny water updated.
- Spec map support added.
- Support for additional textures on models added.
- Lighting updated.
To anyone coming into NWN for the first time they are going to have more hours of unique content available than Skyrim and quite frankly, a better modding community.All for $20.
And we get some new toys, the possibility of future content and bug fixes. More importantly, we get an infusion of new blood into the community.
Some people got their hopes up for every model, texture, animation and particle effect in the game to be redone from scratch alongside every random idea they had ever had in the shower.
...Well that was an unrealistic burden of expectation to place on a team of 7 people.
Furthermore, it is both unrealistic and unfair for people to demand a dramatic increase in the Enhanced Editions scope while also denying it the additional resources and visability that comes from being sold on the worlds largest digital marketplace.
Last year I would have given my right arm for better UI support and NAT punching. Last year, when NWN was being kept alive by several hundred people and the game had become a urban legend to younger generations.
There are some bug fixes that are needed to regain parity with 1.69 in terms of PW support. But nothing that is unrealistic for the launch window. If people see that as important then they need to ask for it on Trello, the forums and the Friday stream instead of placing the focus on cosmetics.
New people will see the Original Campaign and the dated graphics and say “enhanced?”.
If you remember how long the original development cycle was by the time the original nwn came out the graphics were dated. The oc was rushed.
Many of the players and reviewers noted that.
Reviewers don’t give a damn about resources.
I want Beamdog to succeed. I worry that this may not be enough.
If it is, awesome.
I do admit, this game is pretty bug free.
There'll always be morons who whine and complain about graphics and then slink away back to Overwatch or whatever vice they love.
It'll be fine.
The Premium modules have been restored.
There are thousands of single player/co-op modules on The Vault.
And with a new generation of gamers being exposed to NWN and the flexibility of the toolset there is no reason not to expect even more new single player content created by new and returning players.
As for reviews... I hardly think it matters for HD/Remake/Re-Release/Enhanced Editions.
You could MadLib the vast majority of remaster reviews: Go look at reviews for any of the big HD/Remasters/Re-Releases on MetaCritic and they read pretty much like boilerplate.
And if someone cares enough to give NWN:EE a genuine review then they are probably a fan of the series.
As long as NWN:EE runs, has some improvements over the original and isn't $120 I'm sure reviews will be quite kind. And if not, NWN:EE will still probably sell well based on the reputation of the original and the fact that NWN has been in the top 10 list over at GOG for years.
Also if new players buy NWN only for the OC and judge it on solely on the OC then that is a messaging problem because that was never the main focus in the way it is with other games. Even without knowing that when you start a new game you are given several options, including all of the individual campaigns, the premium modules, as well as loading any other module. The question of "what's enhanced?" is far more important to players that create or use custom content and play on persistent worlds, in terms of a platform to play or create content there is little difference.
For those that insist on the OC being their first and primary experience with NWN then I don't think anything can be done to significantly improve that experience. Most of the suggestions in regards to the OC are the niche of the niche nitpicks and feature requests that potential new customers haven't requested. Demoting the campaign by renaming it to "NWN: The Wailing Death" bring it in line with the expansion packs would be the best option.
It's not impossible to do it right, look at what Larian did with their tutorials of the gm client as well as their 4 hour gm demo game with Matt Mercer as gm and several youtube or twitch personalities as his players. NWN arguably has far more to promote and explain to a potential new audience but so far there is no promo material on those important features. Bioware also used to host extensive resources for builders and modders of all sorts, none of which is available from an equivalent Beamdog page, if you want to find some of it you have to search on the vault (unofficial 3rd party site) and know what you're looking for.
Here are some links from randomly chosen archive dates that illustrate the differences in messaging and information/support between then and now.
If you note here they have features in their site news detailing persistent worlds and the community offerings.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040618160941/http://nwn.bioware.com:80/
Here is a snapshot of the builder resource.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040616121525/http://nwn.bioware.com:80/builders/
Here is a snapshot of the DM resource.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040603045205/http://nwn.bioware.com:80/dms/
So for first impressions there is a lot of work that could be done which doesn't require development time.
This to me is very worrying, particularly after they'd only about a month ago suggested release would be in summer and I felt that might have been too early already if they wanted any sort of good publicity on their official launch with enough new content, features, premium modules and the like to encourage the community to adopting the new release over the one we all know so very well. The communities I regularly visit are already very split about a transition to EE because they do not feel there is enough new content to justify it (I disagree, but that's why I bought in early) or aren't familiar with the new content because the steam page hasn't been updated every to my knowledge and that's as much effort alot put into seeing what is different.
Then again there is functionality very much missing from EE that is available in 1.69, NWNx on Windows is just one of the things some servers will require to make such a transition (alongside time to convert things that rely on parts that have changed and test them). Even if they were to change to Linux (and having to learn how to fully trouble shoot it, set it up and everything else for those that aren't already intimately familiar which would be most that choose windows over Linux I imagine) there is NWNx functionality that is also still missing at this time that some rely upon.
I'm going to tag @JuliusBorisov here because even if he doesn't reply to it, I want him to at least read this comment (and the rest of this thread) so he can take the concerns of the community to the rest of the Beamdog team working on NWN:EE and maybe just get that Steam page updated as well. . .
NWN2 is so much better in every way except for a crappy UI. Two facts - a better game and a crappier UI - that make NWN2EE a much better idea.
Still getting it, though, because I game at 4K and the current game is almost unplayable at 4K.
Example:
What issues have you been having in 4K?
Also, I don't understand people's issues when it came to playing NWN 1.69 on modern hardware. It runs almost flawlessly on my Windows 7 computer at 1920x1080 without pretty much any lag. Am I missing something?