Half-Goblinoid as a playable race

MonoCanalla

I don't know how to mod and I'm basically thinking on EEKeeper my way to play this. This post is a contribution and a call for feedback. I don't post this in the "Goblin as a playable race" because I think is too long to just put it in the middle of the thread and pretend is cool.

I found plenty of good information about this sub race here: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/dreamscarred-press/half-goblinoids/

I am interested in the specific half-goblin.

They propose:
Ability Score Adjustments
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma: Half-goblins are quick and tough, but are hideous little creatures

(this is 5ed stats)

It's all in the link (amazing background bulk of info), but other traits are a bonus to Steal, Stealth, Infravision, and the use of poisons. I think for Baldur's Gate this is too powerful. If you can use poisons like an assassin, there should be more penalties somewhere.

Is considered small, but I don't see it that way. Is suggested one of the parents is a gnome or halfling, but I am thinking in something like human or elf. So Medium.

Is an archetype I had since many years ago in table top and i'd feel great to play it on BG. I see it like something between Nett the Brave and 2-D from Gorrilaz. I was going to use an elf paperdoll with a hue of green or gray skin. Also, my character is going to be a Swashbuckler or a Kensai/Thief.

My questions are:

-So should it have more downsides?

-In EEKeeper, what race should i put? I'm between Goblin, Human, or Half Elf.

-Maybe medium races and small races can not breed? In that case, I'd be looking for hob-goblins, bugbears, or even just a "plain" half orc that is like the Danny Devito of Half Orcs... But I want reasons to role play a very mischievous and trickster character, and have a +1 to Dex. Is it that I am looking for some other race or subrace that I have't thought about and has the characteristics I am looking for?

Kamigoroshi

Small correction: the above stats aren't 5ed, they are part of a 3rd party book called Bloodforge: Halfbreeds for Pathfinder.

Personally, I'd roleplay as an half-goblin/half-halfing. Their sizes are identical enough to make a green-ish skinned halfing sprite look authentic. Not to mention half-halfings are so much more interesting than half-humans.
For racial abilities, I'd use something along the following lines:

• -1 Strength, +1 Dexterity, -1 Wisdom
  
• Pick pockets +15
  
• Open locks 0
  
• Detect traps 0
  
• Stealth +10
  
• Infravision
  

MonoCanalla

That's certainly cool. I was considering a more slender option, around 160 cm (not far from an elf). I am convinced with the half human option of this.

I made the mistake to not Google enough before posting.

While it doesn't get a lot of mention, the novels for the Dragonlance setting admit outright that humans can cross-breed with just about any of the humanoid races. Not only is a half-elf one of the main characters of the first trilogy, but several mentions have been made of half-kender, and at least one half-ogre, half-dwarf, half-goblin and half-gnome has each turned up over the course of the novels.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/InterspeciesRomance/DungeonsAndDragons

Although mating between a Medium race and a Small race seems complicated, Dragonlance seems to take as canon that Humans can produce children with any other humanoid. The lack of half human-half halfling or gnome in the vast lore of D&D novels and games, doesn't give me much hope about the possibility of a children from goblin and a a Medium sized race union. And being many half-orcs the result of rape, there should also have been cases of goblin raids with similar end. And yet no mentions of half-goblins.

I can either do my own rules or consider another genetic experiment. Also, not all the individuals of the same race or subrace are the same (for example in Salvatore's "Promise of the Witch King", there is an example of a specially orcish half-orc and a specially humanish half-orc). There can be a very graceful half-troll or a very tall half-goblin (half-halfling), or a half-orc with a more human nose.

EDIT: I might just have my character have four grandfathers of different races. Why not? One human, one goblin, one orc, one halfling, and naming it half-orc in EE Keeper with a more creative paper doll. As a result, he can have a good balance of stats and just a +1 Dex -1 Char.

Kamigoroshi

Don't get me wrong: half-humans/half-goblins in the Forgotten Realms certainly do exist. We even met one in Icewind Dale by the name of Zeth. In fact, humans mate with sheerly everything imaginable. For instance, doing the deed with ogres to produce half-ogres should be a whole lot harder than siring half-goblins. Size-wise, I mean.

I just used half-halflings instead of humans because of my own preferences. You could of course also make an half-human/half-hobgoblin, use the half-orc sprite and give it something along the lines of +1 Strength, +1 Dexterity, -1 Wisdom, -1 Charisma. The result should also look rather authentic.

But I honestly can't imagine a goblin-human union ending up with a similar build to the elven sprite. However, I certainly could imagine them look akin to tasloi.

Edit: The last bit with mixed heritages all over the place would make your character an bona fide mongrelfolk. They're both awesomely ugly and awesomely fun to play with.

MonoCanalla

Kamigoroshi said:

Edit: The last bit with mixed heritages all over the place would make your character an bona fide mongrelfolk. They're both awesomely ugly and awesomely fun to play with.

Lol. I was hoping for something sexier, to be honest. We can't relate this whole thing to human ethnicities... but sort of I will. When you meet people who has very mixed heritage, they are so beautiful. Is like they take the best of each. I don't recall knowing an ugly mixed person and yes many beautiful ones. (Note, if I am not clear, I mean like scottish/mexican, cambodian/swedish, canadian/ethiopian, etc... They are georgeous).

Chronicler

MonoCanalla said:

Kamigoroshi said:

Edit: The last bit with mixed heritages all over the place would make your character an bona fide mongrelfolk. They're both awesomely ugly and awesomely fun to play with.

Lol. I was hoping for something sexier, to be honest. We can't relate this whole thing to human ethnicities... but sort of I will. When you meet people who has very mixed heritage, they are so beautiful. Is like they take the best of each. I don't recall knowing an ugly mixed person and yes many beautiful ones. (Note, if I am not clear, I mean like scottish/mexican, cambodian/swedish, canadian/ethiopian, etc... They are georgeous).

As a biracial person myself I'm not sure that's accurate...

Like biracial celebrities are usually pretty attractive, but they're celebrities.

lroumen

All I know it's that i am super handsome.


Btw, nice idea. I think paper doll should also be available via SoD.

Chronicler

I just don't think Goblin Heritage was ever going to make you more conventionally attractive.

It would just make you look more goblin-ish, which is great if you're into that, but it sounds like @MonoCanalla is expecting it to turn them into an elf-like ethereal beauty, which is just not what goblins have ever been.

Dev6

https://ae-rie.deviantart.com/art/Critical-Role-Nott-the-Brave-736468466

This might suit you as a portrait for a cute half-goblin.
Who cares if an actual half-goblin would look good or not, I have a ton of sexy/pretty half-orc portaits and I'm sure an actual half-orc would look hideous. Just have fun and roleplay it as you wish.

Balrog99

A goblin-gnoll halfbreed might be quite fetching (if you're a dog person). Kind of like a toy poodle...

MonoCanalla

I love this thread.

Yeah, I don't claim to be an expert in biracials. I do have many friends and other people that I know that they are and, ok, I guess is my opinion.

I don't have necessarily anything against using a Chewbacca type of character, I don't need to only have handsome PCs, but this time I feel like doing a Lando Calrissian/Jarlaxe charming trickster type of character but as a half-goblin. Exactly, the fan art from Nott is very close to way I have in mind. I will actually use that portrait.

ThacoBell

@Dev6 In first edition, Half-orcs could pass as human. There isn't really any reason why they should be ugly. I think it was stuff like Warhammer and Warcraft that popularized the brutish orc.

MonoCanalla

ThacoBell said:

@Dev6 In first edition, Half-orcs could pass as human. There isn't really any reason why they should be ugly. I think it was stuff like Warhammer and Warcraft that popularized the brutish orc.

For an easy reference, there are some interesting humanist half-orc portraits in Arcanum.

Chronicler

I wanna be clear, I don't want to tell anybody how to run their own campaigns, mods, homebrews, headcannons etc.

Just, if we're talking about real life multiracial people, and how that applies to fantasy races, it's not like a magic beauty formula or anything.

Multiracial people are just normal people like you and me. They can be attractive or unattractive. They can lean towards one parent or the other. All you should really be able to say about Half Goblins, if we're basing it on real life multiracial people, is that they'll be somewhere on the spectrum between human and goblin.

lroumen

Could be that ugly x ugly = beauty same as negative x negative = positive.

And don't forget, you used to be able to hit people with the ugly stick and become the most attractive person in the realms.

Chronicler

lroumen said:

And don't forget, you used to be able to hit people with the ugly stick and become the most attractive person in the realms.

???

Tell me more.

Is this a literal stick we're talking about?

Balrog99

Chronicler said:

lroumen said:

And don't forget, you used to be able to hit people with the ugly stick and become the most attractive person in the realms.

???

Tell me more.

Is this a literal stick we're talking about?

I believe @lroumen is referring to the Rod of Terror found in SOA. It has the drawback of a percent chance of permanently reducing the wielder's charisma by 1 on every hit. The effect used to wrap around when reduced below 1 and become 25 instead of 0 (which would be an ista-kill). Not sure if that was fixed for the EE...

MonoCanalla

Chronicler said:

I wanna be clear, I don't want to tell anybody how to run their own campaigns, mods, homebrews, headcannons etc.

Just, if we're talking about real life multiracial people, and how that applies to fantasy races, it's not like a magic beauty formula or anything.

Multiracial people are just normal people like you and me. They can be attractive or unattractive. They can lean towards one parent or the other. All you should really be able to say about Half Goblins, if we're basing it on real life multiracial people, is that they'll be somewhere on the spectrum between human and goblin.

I was gonna say, what subrace thing can give me the kind of guy I’m looking for. But after all, within the half goblin folk there is a wide diversity of people, the same way we have Danny DeVito and Arnold Swarzenegger

Chronicler

MonoCanalla said:

Chronicler said:

I wanna be clear, I don't want to tell anybody how to run their own campaigns, mods, homebrews, headcannons etc.

Just, if we're talking about real life multiracial people, and how that applies to fantasy races, it's not like a magic beauty formula or anything.

Multiracial people are just normal people like you and me. They can be attractive or unattractive. They can lean towards one parent or the other. All you should really be able to say about Half Goblins, if we're basing it on real life multiracial people, is that they'll be somewhere on the spectrum between human and goblin.

I was gonna say, what subrace thing can give me the kind of guy I’m looking for. But after all, within the half goblin folk there is a wide diversity of people, the same way we have Danny DeVito and Arnold Swarzenegger

Personally I'd say that if you just want a beautiful individual with monstrous features, any of these guys should do. I don't think it's like written in stone that every Mongrolfolk is hideous for example, and if it is it shouldn't be.

If you want somebody from a racial mix that's generally both monstrous and beautiful though, then I've read a bit on The Voldur (Elf/Orc Mixes) and it sounds like they might be up your alley.

Voldur are quite tall, usually standing between 6 foot 3 to 6 foot 9, and are almost always remarkably well muscled. They combine the ferocious features of an orc with the natural beauty of an elf and have completely pupilless, empty eyes. This, more than anything else, makes people suspicious of the voldur. Some voldur have a slightly green tint to their skin or slight tusks, depending on who their orcish ancestor was. Those voldur are the exception, not the rule though

Edit: on reexamination that seems to be some homebrew stuff, but in theory I don't see any reason why Elf/Orc Hybrids wouldn't trend towards both the beauty of elves and the monstrosity of orcs.

Does anybody know if the official canon has anything to say on the subject?

semiticgoddess

I don't think the Rod of Terror works in EE anymore. Word of warning: it only worked in the original game if you equipped the Ring of Human Influence to keep your effective Charisma at 18. Without that ring, the rod's stat drain would eventually mean death.

MonoCanalla

I apreciate all the inputs. I realize that I don’t even wanna go too far from goblin since a big chunk of the point of my character is the goblinish mischievous personality. So I’ll leave as a home brew human-goblin. Now, if I am so focused in role playing, I’d feel guilty about 18/xx strength, it doesn’t fit him. He is supposed to be agile and gracious, and acrobatic. And I wanna do a fighter/thief, in the spirit of swashbuckler type.... I though about starting with Str 15, throwing daggers or even better, the wondrous not str fueled, 3 APR darts, and by the time I can get a girdle of giant strength, switch to long swords. There you go. Kind of compensates the guiltiness of EEKeping to the unbalanced Kensai/Thief or Swashbuckler/Fighter combination.

lroumen

Indeed they fixed the wrap around. Not sure if now you get drained to 1 or to death. It was fun to do at least once in a life time.

Best of luck with the half goblin! It sounds like a fun concept. I think for long sword the strength requirements are not that high or do you at that point want to have the thac0/damage bonus?

Dev6

Chronicler said:

If you want somebody from a racial mix that's generally both monstrous and beautiful though, then I've read a bit on The Voldur (Elf/Orc Mixes) and it sounds like they might be up your alley.

That is a beautiful portrait. I had no idea the Voldur existed.

MonoCanalla

lroumen said:

Best of luck with the half goblin! It sounds like a fun concept. I think for long sword the strength requirements are not that high or do you at that point want to have the thac0/damage bonus?

Thanks! I didn’t want to melee until I have the strength because of the max/min freak inside me.

Yeah, is a nice concept. Too bad I can’t use it in table top since all the player groups I tried suck, and leave role playing apart. Is it even possible to find a good group in New York! I’m gonna have to move to the West Coast or something.

ThacoBell

2ed goblin stats, thanks to @Zaghoul

"Zaghoul said:

Goblins 2nd Ed AD&D (Complete Book of Humanoids)
Min Max
Str 4 15
Con 5 16
Dex 4 17
Int 3 18
Wis 3 18
Chr 3 12"

Being a half goblin, you could be reasonably expected to adjust these.

Zaghoul

Yeah, makes sense with adjustments for a H/G. Officially, in 2nd ed's Complete Book of Humanoids the gobs have -1 to str and chr so any half gob probably wouldn't really have any bonuses. Maybe no penalty to strength and keep the -1 to chr to match the orc/half-orc example below. Add in infravision as well like the half-orcs.

On a whim I decided to look at the difference in orcs to see if it might offer insight into how another half humanoid (goblin in this case) would work.
Orc +1 str/-2chr H/O +1 str/+1 con/ -2 chr
Ability Score Range (orc/half-orc)
Ability Minimum Maximum
Strength 6/6 18/18
Dexterity 3/3 17/17
Constitution 8/13 18/19
Intelligence 3/3 16/17
Wisdom 3/3 16/14
Charisma 3/3 12/12

Looks like the mix to h/o boosted con a little, so maybe raise a half gobs max con (and maybe max strength) just a point. Charisma and dex seemed to stay the same.

@MonoCanalla I think once you get into playing them the stats won't matter quite so much. Any stat increase (or items as you mentioned) you find along the way will just seem that much more gratifying and set the character apart from other goblins just that much more. As goblins prefer ambushes the F/T idea sounds good, but given our character starts off being raised among humans, a half gob could take a mixture of both races and then read up on full goblins if they like at the library in order to appreciate (or not) more of their goblin side as well.
Goblins are interesting in that they can be a witchdoctor as well as a cleric so that adds potential for C/M's if the idea ever came up.
Regardless, welcome to the humanoids, they can be addictive.