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Old School paper dolls are now broken...

GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
The paper dolls from original BG2 no longer work properly. When the paper doll files are put into the override, in the game, they now create a green box in the paper doll window. Please BEAMDOG fix the compatibility of the paper dolls ASAP. Or add alternative choice of the paper dolls to the game. Please guys!

Edit: Ignore the post. The file format for paper dolls was just changed. That's all

Post edited by GarrusN7 on
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Comments

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    edited July 1
    Wait, did you get the old BG2 paper dolls to work in BG2EE?

    There are other threads in the past saying that that is what happens, since something like the 2.0 release.

    I personally would like to add back a few classic BG2 paper dolls, but ran into the green box background problem. I tried various methods to try getting around it, but the best I accomplished was to change the green background to a different color background. It's a transparency issue and I couldn't figure out how to get it to transparent.

  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136

    Wait, did you get the old BG2 paper dolls to work in BG2EE?

    There are other threads in the past saying that that is what happens, since something like the 2.0 release.

    I personally would like to add back a few classic BG2 paper dolls, but ran into the green box background problem. I tried various methods to try getting around it, but the best I accomplished was to change the green background to a different color background. It's a transparency issue and I couldn't figure out how to get it to transparent.

    It turns out the paper dolls now require a new format, which is why the paper dolls are broken since the 2.5 update. Or at least most mostly. Some work partially even without conversion.

  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 108
    edited July 2
    Since the 2.0 update they compressed the .plt files. The engine can still read old-school files but no longer recognize the green color from a certain .bmp color chart as transparent. I tried to edit the .bmp chart but it was in a 24 digit format so nope, the old paper dolls don't work anymore, unless someone can figure out *how* are the new .plt files compressed (and do the same thing to the old ones).

  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 449
    It would a great feature from beamdog to create new paperdolls, and you can choose from a list at character creating. It will be some modern feature. I know its a lots a of work to draw the new ones but sale it as dlc.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    edited July 2
    Actually I've given it another go, and I have made...progress?

    I've got it transparent, but I still have a borked image.

    Also recoloring skin/hair/major/minor isn't working.

    image

    Edit-broke it worse, but got recoloring, sort of.

    I am pretty sure the borkage present here is caused by the image wanting to be cut into two parts, a top and a bottom. The original is stored as a 128x160, and it's transparent for ~20 pixels from the top of the image to the character's head. In the bottom "duplicate" in the borked image, that's at roughly 100 pixels gauging from the base image in GIMP. 160/2=80+20=100. So I think that can be corrected for by doing as the BAM files do, cut it in half.

    My method so far:
    Export the PLT as PNG with Near Infinity.
    Export the PNG as 32-bit BMP with GIMP.
    Was looking at tweaking the palettes with BAMWorkshop II, I suspect I'm going to have to figure this part out.
    Import BMP into a BAM with Near Infinity, choosing to compress the frame.

    I think the reason I'm not getting skin/hair/major/minor recoloring in the picture is because the PNG I exported from NI already had it added (I had randomize colors on).

    That has resulted in an even worse image, a character composed of snow. But it was recolorable snow.

    If I can figure out the palette issue to get it colored properly, I can cut the image into two files, then arrange them to line up with each other. And then arrange it some more so it gets weapons, armor, shields, and helmets.

    That the gist of it?

    Post edited by Quickblade on
    fluke13
  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
    edited July 2
    Quoting a dev reply:
    "developers have just checked it. The EE uses regular BAMs for paperdolls, not the old PLTs. You'll have to convert them. PLT>PNG with the NearInfinity, then split it in half (it's a two-part BAM), then make those PNGs into BAMs.

    Check if those PLTs in the pack by @lunar have transparency set up correctly.

    That lime green is the internal color that gets filtered out for transparency in BAMs, just like a green screen for a movie."

    This seems to be the method

  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    Looks like this has been an issue since 2.0 as mentioned... solution isn't easy. The green goes away if you set the transparency green to exactly the green of new paperdolls, which is 151 yellow, 151 blue in BAM editor. In NearInfinity (NI) you can edit the BAM to get everything to line up right. Palettes and recolouring is a big issue... NI latest update has some interesting additions that might help. I'll see if @Quickblade has any more progress, would like to check the files which got you as far as the above screenshot.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    GarrusN7 said:

    Quoting a dev reply:
    "developers have just checked it. The EE uses regular BAMs for paperdolls, not the old PLTs. You'll have to convert them. PLT>PNG with the NearInfinity, then split it in half (it's a two-part BAM), then make those PNGs into BAMs.

    Check if those PLTs in the pack by @lunar have transparency set up correctly.

    That lime green is the internal color that gets filtered out for transparency in BAMs, just like a green screen for a movie."

    This seems to be the method

    I get the same problem I do whether I convert to BMP or not. I believe it's a palette issue.

    This is what I mean by a character composed of "snow". If I attempt to recolor hair/skin/major/minor, SOME of the pixels of the character change color as I move through the palettes.

    image

    This was an export to PNG straight out of my own BG2:SOA files with NI, then copied the file and cut both in half with GIMP. Did the BAM with NI. Nothing changed aside from default settings.

    Trying again, this time switching the palettes to the BG2EE palette for this file (CEFC3INV).

    image

    No snow, but still not really recolorable (as evidenced by the hot pink palette choices). You can barely make out the pinkness in the edges of the armor.


    fluke13
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    I think until someone finds an auto palette converter from old to new, then it won't be feasible to convert all the paperdolls.
    However, if there's is one you like in particular... then the following should help.
    1) You'll need NearInfinity/ Java runtime, BAM Workshop 2, GIMP
    2) Create override folder and put your old .plt file in there. In NI.. find the old style doll and change the colour to a look you're happy with.
    3) Export your old .plt file as a png, also export an existing working paperdoll for reference (as png (all frames) and as bam (original).
    4) Open your old paperdoll png in GIMP... convert it to a 24bit bmp, cut it in half (following example of existing paperdoll).
    5) Open BAM editor 2..Open the existing working paperdoll example bam and save the palette. Close everything. Open a blank BAM editor, add a blank frame, load the bg2 palette you saved earlier, import frames - add you two 24bit bmps… legs and body.

    6) Using the existing paperdoll as a reference, make sure your transparency colour is exactly the same (151 blue, 151 yellow), and shadow. Recolour any pixels as required. Save, put in override folder and rename to the name of the existing paperdoll you're overriding.

    7) Open up your BAM in Near Infinity... click edit bam... give the body 2 frames and the legs 2 frames. Play around with the x and y axis (can test in game to get it right).

    8) Open BAM in BAM editor 2 again and adjust for things like... colour editing, to make major, minor colours more prominent. You'll also likely have to adjust the hand, arms positions to fit the weapons etc.

    9) Keep testing, with NI, BAM editor, GIMP...until everything aligns perfectly and happy with all colours.


    Look back and reflect on life :D

  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    If it looks good in BAM and NI...then it'll look good in game, so just test in game to align weapons, align legs with body and align the paperdoll within the display window. BAM editor seems to hate 32bit bmp, so use 24bit. Don't bother doing the frames/sequence in BAM editor, much easier in NI.

  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
    Sigh, I just wish devs finally added the original paper dolls to the game instead of the garbage new ones...sigh...I miss BG2...

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,386
    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    fluke13ThacoBell
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    Amazing, nice one.

    @GarrusN7 Your dreams have been answered. If you prefer the old to the new, that's all well and fine and people will give you their time and efforts to help you out, but saying the new ones are garbage is... well, let's just say, it belongs in the "unpopular opinions thread".

    ThacoBell
  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    Wait...does it work now?

  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    Tested the files. Out of sync with everything. Nah, can't use its way out of sync. Unplayable. God dammit I wish the devs never touched the paper doll conversion and just left them as they were. Now the cool models are lost.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,386
    GarrusN7 said:

    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    Tested the files. Out of sync with everything. Nah, can't use its way out of sync. Unplayable. God dammit I wish the devs never touched the paper doll conversion and just left them as they were. Now the cool models are lost.
    Out of Sync? Please explain, aside from helmets - which require fixing on their end, what's wrong?

  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 108
    fluke13 said:

    Looks like this has been an issue since 2.0 as mentioned... solution isn't easy. The green goes away if you set the transparency green to exactly the green of new paperdolls, which is 151 yellow, 151 blue in BAM editor. In NearInfinity (NI) you can edit the BAM to get everything to line up right. Palettes and recolouring is a big issue... NI latest update has some interesting additions that might help. I'll see if @Quickblade has any more progress, would like to check the files which got you as far as the above screenshot.

    Is there a possibility I may know the exact RGB values of "151 yellow, 151 blue in BAM editior"?
    Or, sorry if I sound stupid (because I am), what is this BAM editior???

  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    edited July 4
    Sorry, I meant RGB... 0.151.151

    BAM editor I meant BAM workshop II




    @GarrusN7 I've tested the paperdolls from kjeron, they look great, some just need a slight realignment in NearInfinity so that the helments and weapons align exactly. Is that what you're talking about, or are you saying you want the animations/avatar to sync with the paperdoll/inventory?

  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 108
    I'm getting 0-151-151-colored box behind my characters. Weird.
    And my computer pops strange error while starting BAM workshop II I guess the old-school dolls just don't like me.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    edited July 4
    kjeron said:

    GarrusN7 said:

    kjeron said:

    Managed to automate re-palleting them into BAMs. Only the Human Female Monk & Thief needed some manual touch-ups (on their shadow of all things). This is just the body/armor, no weapons/helms/shields.

    Tested the files. Out of sync with everything. Nah, can't use its way out of sync. Unplayable. God dammit I wish the devs never touched the paper doll conversion and just left them as they were. Now the cool models are lost.
    Out of Sync? Please explain, aside from helmets - which require fixing on their end, what's wrong?
    There's a problem. It's not just realigning helmets, the characters don't physically line up the same. Aligning to helmet makes the weapon appear well into the forearm. The right arm (left on the screen) is too long.

    I solved it for the two paperdolls I care about by aligning to helmet, and then editing with GIMP so that I took out a good bit of the misalignment by shortening the right (left) wrist by a couple pixels.

    Problem was that caused some sort of palette shift, the entire palette shifted over by 1 every time I saved. I guess GIMP doesn't recognize the transparency in the first palette space. Every way I tried to correct it didn't seem to work, and by the time I had the pixels right, the palette had been shifted 3 times, and so the character looked very washed out from the shifting to the left (darker to lighter), Finally I threw out all my work last night and started over.

    Managed to do it with just one edit and while the character is somewhat lighter from 1 palette shift, I can live with it.

    Thank you for this.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,386
    edited July 4

    There's a problem. It's not just realigning helmets, the characters don't physically line up the same. Aligning to helmet makes the weapon appear well into the forearm. The right arm (left on the screen) is too long.

    They are aligned to the EE's Weapon/Shield placement (as that's what I had at the time). I couldn't align them to both weapons and helmets (as the old paperdolls are too different) so I chose the one that would leave less manual work.

    Re-aligning them for original BG2 weapons/helmets is not something for GIMP. All it requires is adjusting the "Center x/y" coordinates, which is far easier accomplished with NI.
    Select the BAM, Click "Edit BAM"(bottom right button), adjust the "Center X" and "Center Y" for both frames by the same amount, then save and move into override, and check in-game.

    Or I can try to rebuild them for BG2 weapon/helmet placement later tonight if you'd prefer.

    fluke13
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    edited July 5
    kjeron said:

    There's a problem. It's not just realigning helmets, the characters don't physically line up the same. Aligning to helmet makes the weapon appear well into the forearm. The right arm (left on the screen) is too long.

    They are aligned to the EE's Weapon/Shield placement (as that's what I had at the time). I couldn't align them to both weapons and helmets (as the old paperdolls are too different) so I chose the one that would leave less manual work.
    That's what I'm saying, I was attempting to align to both weapons and helmets through editing the paperdoll image with GIMP so that it would line up with both.

    Yes, there was realigning of the image with "center x/y" as well (especially since while I was at it, I cropped the images from 128x80s with autocropping to ~65x60).

    Here's what the original was that you fixed:
    image

    And here's what I finally worked out:
    image

    You can tell I shortened the right wrist.

    Also, it's hard to tell without zooming in, but I made the torso wider by about 1 pixel for 3-4 pixels on the character's left side where the brighter strap from the main buckle on the chest wraps around. I felt, and still do feel, the torso is too skinny.

    But I'm willing to live with it, given how much work it took (~5 hours last night before throwing out all my work in frustration over the palette shifting, ~3 hours this morning when I started over).

  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 315
    @Quickblade I'll take a look at those two you like when I return from my current travels B)

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 557
    fluke13 said:

    @Quickblade I'll take a look at those two you like when I return from my current travels B)

    Nah, I'm good.

  • GarrusN7GarrusN7 Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 136
    Sigh....it's disappointing that it's such a hassle to play the game with OG dolls...

    I wish the devs made some comment about this...

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 3,220
    What exactly is the difference between OG and EE paperdolls?

    I'm clearly failing to see the problem here.

    Thanks!

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,175
    edited July 5
    @Raduziel The enhanced edition uses the 1PP paperdolls which are based on the BG1 paperdolls. BG2 paperdolls are quite different.

    BG2 vs BG2:EE:

    Raduziel
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