@Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.
I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks [EDIT: I meant traps] *and* be my scout/backstabber.
No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
No-one's mentioned Kagain, despite still being an illegally good tank in BG1. Regenerating HP due to his 20 Con is godly when you're low on healing spells and level 3 or less. He'll heal fully on almost any area transition. His relatively low strength and dex can be a bit of an issue, but he has boatloads of HP and great saves.
I know you're pretty keen on thieves, but I would happily drop either Monty or Safana for additional tanky goodness.
Kagain is great, I agree, and would be in my party if it wasn't for Dorn (who I'm *not* dropping), but I'd rather have Monty if it was a choice between him and Kagain
@Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.
I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.
No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
thought so he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.
btw thanks for getting me thinking about that, now I know how I'm gonna fit in Monty and Xzar into my party
Another option would be to dual safana (or Imoen) to a mage, after getting sufficient points in traps, but I'd need someone else to cover for them whilst they regain their thief levels and am not sure I'll have elbow room for that, though I guess I could wait to pick Edwin until she's re-levelled, by which time he'll come with some extra level 2 AND 3 spells I won't have to find scrolls for...
@Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.
I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.
No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
thought so he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.
But I thought you couldn't pick that ring up until quite late? Not sure I want to wait that long withot a viable scout... Am still veering towards taking two thieves... and currently *Edwin*...
I do actually love it that the game does force you to make these hard choices, there is no one right or easy answer!
For BG1 with the npc mod, Xzar is VERY interesting to have in your party compared to Edwin. I think that the reason is that Xzar has such a strange and crazy personality that it is difficulty not to find him interesting.
@Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.
I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.
No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
thought so he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.
But I thought you couldn't pick that ring up until quite late? Not sure I want to wait that long withot a viable scout... Am still veering towards taking two thieves... and currently *Edwin*...
I do actually love it that the game does force you to make these hard choices, there is no one right or easy answer!
erm... shit, I'm not sure. can't you access Ulgoth's Beard right from the start? I mean, you can go up to the bridge near BG (not without some difficulty, but you can), and it is easily accessible from there (just go north), no?
edit: though money is another matter entirely... I confused it with ring of free action initially (which you can just nick at the same area), ring of invisibility cost a hefty 25k gold.
Actually, while this might not suit Oxford_Guy's plans for the entire party, this makes me realize that I've never had the two of them in the same party and I would very much like to do that one day.
Xzar if you want to go for party synergy (he is mates with Montaron after all) or Edwin if you want to go for power. But still, i think you should reconsider this line up a bit, especially if you plan on playing Insane difficulty. Archery (ranged combat) is the strongest asset in BG1, and you don't have a single specialist for this in your group. You also don't need more than 1 mage in BG1, as they aren't very powerful at early levels and there aren't many strong enemy mages in the game either (best counter to a mage is another mage), maybe go for an evil Elven fighter with max in longbows? I guarantee you will finish the game as the top damage dealer in your group.
Well, Edwin is clearly the more powerful mage. However, Xzar can definitely be the more powerful character. As was pointed out earlier with a tome of dex or wis you've got yourself a Necromancer/Thief or Necromancer/Cleric. With Either choice you will be gaining 5th level spells (just like Edwin) but you'll also have max level priest spells (for BG1) or you can take some of the burden off your thieves or replace Safana with Eldoth as you have considered.
I love both characters but Xzar's stats make him a better choice for party synergy, I believe. Go with Xzar, he's a destroyer of worlds afterall.
Definitely both! That's what I did last time I played evil. In fact, I think I was a mage as well. I figured out a way to separate Xzar from his thief friend without him complaining too much, can't remember how though.
What happens if you take a stroll with one member of a NPC pair (i.e., way from the rest of the party) and just cast Petrification on him or her? Does the other member leave? Or is it out of sight, out of mind. Oops, never mind, forgot petrification comes only from Chromatic Orb at a relatively high level.
@Oxford_Guy dude, seems like you and I are exactly on the same page! Although I've completed the BG2 campaign with an all-evil party many times (and therefore love Edwin), I wanted to try evil in BG1 for the first time. I'm planning to use both: Xzar initially as my mage with Viconia as the cleric and then dual him to cleric at level 6 with the tome in Durlag's tower and replace Viconia with Edwin. That way my final party will look something like this:
PC: Swashbuckler dualled to mage at level 6 (max out Lock Picks and Find Traps) + disabling/buffs Dorn Kagain Monty (max out hide in shadows/move silently and maybe some into pickpockets for the occasional larceny Xzar (necromancer 6/bat-shit crazy cleric 8) Edwin (main AoE mage)
I'm going to try out the same character in the Black Pits, but with spears proficiency. If she is interesting, I'll maybe start my first evil playthrough of BG... and I'm sure I'll take Monty and Xzar along. At least until one or both meet an unfortunate end. I think Montaron and Xzar are more fun, but Edwin is more powerful... it's really hard to decide. Maybe do as @colonel_burger says, take both
1. Pick up Xzar and Safana 2. Get Safana good with the Lock Picking and Finding Traps while you develop Monty's stealth skills. 3. Get to Baldur's Gate, immediately get the Tome of Dexterity, feed it to Xzar, dual-class Xzar to Thief. 4. Boot Safana, pick up Edwin. 5. Victory.
Also, to answer questions about the Ring of Invisibility; you can potentially get it very early, it's just that it costs over 25k gold if I remember right. Very hefty.
@lemernis the bg1 npc project added some awesome banter between these two. My first playthrough will be CHARNAME as an evil fighter/mage, Monty, xzar, Edwin, dorn and either Vicky or tiax. I can't wait for the mayhem.
Oops, never mind, forgot petrification comes only from Chromatic Orb at a relatively high level.
what about Flesh to Stone scroll?
Good luck getting a Level 6 Mage scroll in BG1, bud. There aren't any, and Mages will be capped at Level 9, barely getting Level 5 Mage spells. In fact, Sorcerors won't even get 5th level spells. I'm waiting for the rage/shit/etc storm that happens as a result of that fact.
It saddens me to see that pompous pansy whiner tasting better that highly insane brilliance of Xzar. It saddens me greatly. I hope you all suffocate in my tears BWHAHAHAHAHA *runs away laughing and/or crying*
Kagain Dorn (Behind him, he's much better at a damager role than the tank) Monty (Just worry about traps primarily, knock gets rid of the pesky lock issues and you can get gear easily to make up for the stealth worries) Edwin
Herm. This is a problem, if you want Viconia then you need to take or kill off Xzar. If you take Xzar then you are sorely missing a healer until you get a tome of wisdom (and ideally Xzar up to level 7 iirc). Definitely a conundrum. I know what I'll be thinking about for the next few hours.
One point that hasn't really been brought up is Xzar's role in a "canon" evil party. Given that he and Montaron want to address the issues in the Nashkel mines, and then that there is additional unique dialogue when you get to Baldur's Gate, it's clear these two are the Khalid/Jaheira of an evil party - designed to be with you from start to finish. Edwin, eh, I always hated his low AC and his awful staff spec.
@Dragonspear, got an easy solution for you. leave Kagain alone, get Yeslick. they're pretty similar, high con, low dex (fixed with gloves), okay-ish str (fixed with Strength spell and DUHM), except... Yeslick is a multiclass fighter/cleric, and a damn good one at that. (higher wis then Vicky)
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No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
btw thanks for getting me thinking about that, now I know how I'm gonna fit in Monty and Xzar into my party
I do actually love it that the game does force you to make these hard choices, there is no one right or easy answer!
edit: though money is another matter entirely... I confused it with ring of free action initially (which you can just nick at the same area), ring of invisibility cost a hefty 25k gold.
I however, would just drop Saf, and take edwin too, espcially if you are thinking of replacing her with Eldoth
Two mages are useful, even in bg1.
I love both characters but Xzar's stats make him a better choice for party synergy, I believe. Go with Xzar, he's a destroyer of worlds afterall.
PC: Swashbuckler dualled to mage at level 6 (max out Lock Picks and Find Traps) + disabling/buffs
Dorn
Kagain
Monty (max out hide in shadows/move silently and maybe some into pickpockets for the occasional larceny
Xzar (necromancer 6/bat-shit crazy cleric 8)
Edwin (main AoE mage)
2. Get Safana good with the Lock Picking and Finding Traps while you develop Monty's stealth skills.
3. Get to Baldur's Gate, immediately get the Tome of Dexterity, feed it to Xzar, dual-class Xzar to Thief.
4. Boot Safana, pick up Edwin.
5. Victory.
Also, to answer questions about the Ring of Invisibility; you can potentially get it very early, it's just that it costs over 25k gold if I remember right. Very hefty.
*runs away laughing and/or crying*
Kagain
Dorn (Behind him, he's much better at a damager role than the tank)
Monty (Just worry about traps primarily, knock gets rid of the pesky lock issues and you can get gear easily to make up for the stealth worries)
Edwin
Herm. This is a problem, if you want Viconia then you need to take or kill off Xzar. If you take Xzar then you are sorely missing a healer until you get a tome of wisdom (and ideally Xzar up to level 7 iirc). Definitely a conundrum. I know what I'll be thinking about for the next few hours.