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Why do cameo NPCs from BG 1 not remember you?

For example, quayle, faldorn, etc, they dont recognize you at all. Does BG 2 just assume you never met them at all?

I know Xvar does but hes one of the few.

Comments

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,106
    there's no explanation really. it's a problem.

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,256
    Is Quayle the same Quayle from BG1? For some reason I have always imagined and hoped they were different Quayles...

  • Durmir46Durmir46 Member Posts: 110
    From a canon point of view, the only NPCs you have travelled with in BG1 are:
    Imoen
    Jaheira
    Khalid
    Minsc
    Dynaheir
    (Full party of 6).

    Khalid and Dynaheir die between BG1 and BG2, so in BG2, only Imoen, Jaheira and Minsc remember you (you even start with them).
    Do not forget that BG1 and BG2 are 2 different games, some players have one but not the other one. And there was not yet the possibility of importing saves like for Mass Effect or so (although you can import characters), so BG2 has no idea who you met before.

    That being said, many cameo NPCs have lines for you to remind them you used to travel together, so I guess it's not all lost.

    ThacoBell
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 636
    Shandyr said:

    Is Quayle the same Quayle from BG1? For some reason I have always imagined and hoped they were different Quayles...

    Funny, I always thought it was the same Quayle lol. Is it ever confirmed either way?

    ThacoBell
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,598
    @Durmir46
    Actually, there is nothing like "canon party" in Baldur's Gate. The NPCs you mentioned
    end up meeting with you at the end of Siege of Dragonspear expansion, regardless who you have traveled with before. And it was actually Imoen who sets that up.

    ThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 379
    Durmir46 said:

    From a canon point of view, the only NPCs you have travelled with in BG1 are:
    Imoen
    Jaheira
    Khalid
    Minsc
    Dynaheir
    (Full party of 6).

    Khalid and Dynaheir die between BG1 and BG2, so in BG2, only Imoen, Jaheira and Minsc remember you (you even start with them).
    Do not forget that BG1 and BG2 are 2 different games, some players have one but not the other one. And there was not yet the possibility of importing saves like for Mass Effect or so (although you can import characters), so BG2 has no idea who you met before.

    That being said, many cameo NPCs have lines for you to remind them you used to travel together, so I guess it's not all lost.

    Every other returning companion does have lines where you reference having adventured together before.

    If I recall even people like Xzar and Montaron who were companions in BG1 but only return for a brief cameo have lines like that.

    People like Quayle are the exception, not the rule. The Player Character canonically adventured with pretty much everybody. The 6 person party is more a gameplay limitation than anything relevant to the canon.

    ThacoBell
  • Durmir46Durmir46 Member Posts: 110
    @O_Bruce SoD is a very recent expansion pack. And an explanation of why these NPCs are canon... Point is, BG2 was developed 15 before SoD, so SoD at best tries to explain early BG2, rather than setting it up.

    @Chronicler yes you are right. Most cameo NPCs in BG2 have lines for this. However you have to choose the right dialogue options to enjoy it. It's a very cool way from BioWare to push the cameo a bit further than a simple "apparition". It's part of these thousand great things in the trilogy that make it so polished and immersive. Unfortunately, these lines are not automatically delivered and you can even choose to not recognise them yourself. Unlike the "canon" NPCs who remind you right away why you are such great friends. Imoen even asks you if you feel alright in your head if you try to pretend not recognising her! Of course it's actually an opportunity for the player who did not play BG1 to have some background too, but it's done well enough to actually feel natural.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 379
    I don't think it's any less canon just because you have to choose the dialogue option to see it...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,716
    I've heard that if you let Quayle die during the circus quest, charname gets a dialogue choice that implies its the same Quayle from BG1. I've never done this before, so I can't confirm.

    ShandyrDev6
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 659
    The real reason is that the game is 20 years old and carrying decisions from one game to the sequel just wasn’t something that happened back then.

    ThacoBellsarevok57
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,097
    it's because we did not get save imports that carried over choices until mass effect 2 in 2010. baldurs gate was like quest for glory and just imported stats.

    ThacoBell
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,106
    all these technical explanations are ok, but i think OP was looking for an in-game explanation

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 468
    Yeah they probably didn't think they'd end up making a trilogy when they 1st coded the original game.

    As for the in game explanation then i'd say it's simple, the Spawn is just not that special, if it wasn't pointed out that you were some sort of hero or they saw you actually fighting it's unlikely the average Joe would even think twice about it. There's no photo or video records so any info about the Spawn would be printed images so even if they saw a pamphlet they probably wouldn't recognize your character.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983

    My view is that the developers were caught between not wanting to make people who never played BG feel left out. And at the same time not wanting those who played BG feel that it didn't matter.

    So you end up with a bit of a mess.

    The worst example is Xzar/Monteron.
    It's quite possible to have played the whole game with them, from first people you meet to defeating Sarevok and then you see Xzar murdered in front of you and are then told to walk away.

    Explanation, "oh they are evil zhents"
    But if they were your NPC, they never did much evil and didn't betray you.

    It would have been better, IMO, if they had taken the decision to not have any of the NPC from BG in BG2 unless you could recruit them again. Or simple cameos with a bit of dialog, like Garick.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,736
    really? except for quayle ( as far as i know, because i never talk to him ) there is always some reference from bg1 npcs in BG2,

    with xzar you can mention if he should be dead as if he died in bg1

    ( even with edwin you have the same scenario )

    viconia recognizes you right away

    faldorn mentions how she may have been afraid of you in the best ( hinting at the idea that you were stronger than her back in bg 1 )

    and coran talks to you as if you were good friends, you can even say to him : i thought i told you to stay out of my business - or something like that - and safana knows of you as well, although she does come pretty cold about it while coran is way more friendly about it

    actually now that i think of it, i dont think garrick recognizes you ( in the temple district ) too busy being distracted by one of the paladins he is trying to go after i suppose

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,716
    I always found it hilarious that Garrick doesn't recognize you. He would be the one NPC that wouldn't.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 2,681
    Maybe they were drunk the whole time. Kinda like Thoros of Myr in Game of Thrones.

    'We weren't the bravest adventurers on the Sword Coast, just the drunkest.'

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