The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
Too many of them still think institutions, norms and precedent are going to save things. And they aren't going to. Not this time. And I agree with @Balrog99 on one thing. Trump could easily win given the structural advantages of the electoral college and a number of other factors. More and more this is feeling like 2003 to me. The Democratic Party is split. Those who don't follow things closely are behind Biden on name recognition. But the real issue is that there is no indication that the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home or voted for Trump last time have changed their minds. They are still "Bernie or bust" and will simply not accept any of the other candidates.
The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
The Democratic Party is ill-equipped to deal with Trump & Co. from my vantage point. They're fighting with both hands tied behind their back because of having to appear 'righteous' in an arena where righteousness is a liability. Liberals seem to live in a fantasy-land where everybody obeys the laws, people don't act in their own best interests, and government is a force for good. It's a wonderful idea for a movie plot, but not much based in reality.
The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
The Democratic Party is ill-equipped to deal with Trump & Co. from my vantage point. They're fighting with both hands tied behind their back because of having to appear 'righteous' in an arena where righteousness is a liability. Liberals seem to live in a fantasy-land where everybody obeys the laws, people don't act in their own best interests, and government is a force for good. It's a wonderful idea for a movie plot, but not much based in reality.
It's not righteousness so much as thinking that rules still matter. I don't know how times Lucy has to pull the football away before they realize it's going to happen every time no matter what the situation is. Merrick Garland should have been the end of that delusion. Trump's first two years should have DEFINITELY erased any of the lingering doubts.
The problem is Democrats genuinely believe government can and does work. Republicans used to be for LIMITED government. What the Democrats seem to be missing is that Republicans are no longer trying to limit government, they are trying to destroy it.
The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
Too many of them still think institutions, norms and precedent are going to save things. And they aren't going to. Not this time. And I agree with @Balrog99 on one thing. Trump could easily win given the structural advantages of the electoral college and a number of other factors. More and more this is feeling like 2003 to me. The Democratic Party is split. Those who don't follow things closely are behind Biden on name recognition. But the real issue is that there is no indication that the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home or voted for Trump last time have changed their minds. They are still "Bernie or bust" and will simply not accept any of the other candidates.
I really don't think bernie or bust was such a big thing that it threw the election to trump and would appreciate dropping this infighting point. Plenty voted for Hillary who supported Bernie such as myself. Enough with the 2016, it's 2020 that is in the future. Do I support Bernie over Biden? Of course, Biden has no positions now only platitudes and he has a history of doing the wrong thing like Republicans do all the time - pro-corporate, pro-war, anti-middle class. That being said if Biden wins the nomination is he better than Trump? Of course don't be silly.
Speaking of throwing the election to Trump, I'm looking for an answer to why if someone says "Trump's a asshole" or something the default response is "And that's why Trump won!" the notion being that because the left is incivil once that bam that's what got Trump elected yet Trump and his supporters are uncivil all the time and there's no corresponding outpouring of support to the left? There's no "and that's why the left won" or "that's why I'm leaving the Republican party" or whatever. Odd.
The Democratic Party really needs to take a page out of the Rpublican handbook here. Treat the current administration like the threat it is and go after it with the same zeal the Republican party blindly goes after everything Liberal. The well being of this country just might rest on the Democratic party after the damage Trump has done and the outright refusal of the Republican party to do anything bout it.
Too many of them still think institutions, norms and precedent are going to save things. And they aren't going to. Not this time. And I agree with @Balrog99 on one thing. Trump could easily win given the structural advantages of the electoral college and a number of other factors. More and more this is feeling like 2003 to me. The Democratic Party is split. Those who don't follow things closely are behind Biden on name recognition. But the real issue is that there is no indication that the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home or voted for Trump last time have changed their minds. They are still "Bernie or bust" and will simply not accept any of the other candidates.
I really don't think bernie or bust was such a big thing that it threw the election to trump and would appreciate dropping this infighting point. Plenty voted for Hillary who supported Bernie such as myself. Enough with the 2016, it's 2020 that is in the future. Do I support Bernie over Biden? Of course, Biden has no positions now only platitudes and he has a history of doing the wrong thing like Republicans do all the time - pro-corporate, pro-war, anti-middle class. That being said if Biden wins the nomination is he better than Trump? Of course don't be silly.
Speaking of throwing the election to Trump, I'm looking for an answer to why if someone says "Trump's a asshole" or something the default response is "And that's why Trump won!" the notion being that because the left is incivil once that bam that's what got Trump elected yet Trump and his supporters are uncivil all the time and there's no corresponding outpouring of support to the left? There's no "and that's why the left won" or "that's why I'm leaving the Republican party" or whatever. Odd.
It's the same reason that people rejoice when a religious leader (especially a Christian) screws up and gets caught. Democrats preach so much that it's like listening so an f'ing sermon every time they speak. The only difference is that they don't tell me I'm going to Hell, they just tell me that I'm a bigoted, elitist, fascist, racist if I don't vote for them...
This is a poll tax. Florida voters OVERWHELMINGLY voted to restore felon voting rights after they serve their sentence. Based on the discrepancy in the vote between this ballot initiative and the Senate and Governor races, TONS of Republican voters pulled the lever for it too. But there was no way Republican officials were going to let this stand, or be reined in by something as silly as a ballot initiative voted on by the citizens of the state. This effectively nullifies the referendum. What percentage of these people getting out are going to have ANY money whatsoever, much less to spend on restoring their voting rights in a monetary way that the voters of Florida already DEMANDED they get back??
Democrats preach so much that it's like listening so an f'ing sermon every time they speak. The only difference is that they don't tell me I'm going to Hell, they just tell me that I'm a bigoted, elitist, fascist, racist if I don't vote for them...
This is a poll tax. Florida voters OVERWHELMINGLY voted to restore felon voting rights after they serve their sentence. Based on the discrepancy in the vote between this ballot initiative and the Senate and Governor races, TONS of Republican voters pulled the lever for it too. But there was no way Republican officials were going to let this stand, or be reined in by something as silly as a ballot initiative voted on by the citizens of the state. This effectively nullifies the referendum. What percentage of these people getting out are going to have ANY money whatsoever, much less to spend on restoring their voting rights in a monetary way that the voters of Florida already DEMANDED they get back??
Kind of like how the Liberals just laid back and allowed Prop 8 to stand in California, right? Apparently the people only have the right to vote in ballot proposals the majority party in that state like. Republicans in Florida are no worse than Democrats in California...
About voting, there are some people who say that democrats wanna more immigration because immigrants tends to vote for democrats. Mexicans tends to vote for democrats. Argentine and Cubans tends to vote for republicans.
This was allegedly is biggest accomplishment and it is about to fall apart. Hopefully the American public will be educated enough on the topic come 2020 when he starts saying he fixed “NAFTA.”
So Trump doesn't want Mueller to testify. Instead Trump wants to continue a one sided smear campaign against him on Twitter where the other guy can't say anything.
Shocking.
Trump is a joke how does anyone take anything he says as anything other than self serving lies.
Supposedly Barr has opened an investigation into the oranges of the investigation as well. Kamala Harris is asking the IG in the Justice Department to investigate Barr because he seems to be on a politically motivated investigation ordered by Trump.
The bar association in DC is being asked to open an investigation into Barr for his lies about the Mueller report. After releasing a wildly misleading four-page "summary" of Mueller's report in March, Barr then purposefully misled Congress about whether Mueller disagreed with Barr's assessment. Barr also claimed that Trump was within his rights to fire an independent counsel if Trump felt aggrieved or needed a safe space. So he revealed himself as a spineless liar. Hope he loses his law license and ends up in prison for his role in all this.
This is a poll tax. Florida voters OVERWHELMINGLY voted to restore felon voting rights after they serve their sentence. Based on the discrepancy in the vote between this ballot initiative and the Senate and Governor races, TONS of Republican voters pulled the lever for it too. But there was no way Republican officials were going to let this stand, or be reined in by something as silly as a ballot initiative voted on by the citizens of the state. This effectively nullifies the referendum. What percentage of these people getting out are going to have ANY money whatsoever, much less to spend on restoring their voting rights in a monetary way that the voters of Florida already DEMANDED they get back??
Kind of like how the Liberals just laid back and allowed Prop 8 to stand in California, right? Apparently the people only have the right to vote in ballot proposals the majority party in that state like. Republicans in Florida are no worse than Democrats in California...
Prop 8 was because opponents of LGBT rights couldn't stand Prop 22 being declared unconstitutional. And then Prop 8 gets declared unconstitutional because declaring Prop 22 unconstitutional restored rights of marriage, which Prop 8 re-removed. Among other reasons for declaring it unconstitutional.
That's not a real great comparison you want to stand on with this topic.
In the case of Florida, if the House bill becomes law, what is to stop undue burden against felonious voters by laying abnormally high court fines and fees? The article already cites that the existing standard is "paid back restitution".
Florida is funding a significant part of its criminal justice system on the back of those fines and fees.
Edit-Also, California Prop 8 passed with a relatively narrow majority, basically 52.25%-47.75%. A difference of 600k votes.
Florida Amendment 4 passed 64.55%-35.45%. A difference of over 2.3 million votes.
Not that it matters much in a legal sense, but that is a much clearer majority, of "voter will", if you will.
This is a poll tax. Florida voters OVERWHELMINGLY voted to restore felon voting rights after they serve their sentence. Based on the discrepancy in the vote between this ballot initiative and the Senate and Governor races, TONS of Republican voters pulled the lever for it too. But there was no way Republican officials were going to let this stand, or be reined in by something as silly as a ballot initiative voted on by the citizens of the state. This effectively nullifies the referendum. What percentage of these people getting out are going to have ANY money whatsoever, much less to spend on restoring their voting rights in a monetary way that the voters of Florida already DEMANDED they get back??
Kind of like how the Liberals just laid back and allowed Prop 8 to stand in California, right? Apparently the people only have the right to vote in ballot proposals the majority party in that state like. Republicans in Florida are no worse than Democrats in California...
Prop 8 was because opponents of LGBT rights couldn't stand Prop 22 being declared unconstitutional. And then Prop 8 gets declared unconstitutional because declaring Prop 22 unconstitutional restored rights of marriage, which Prop 8 re-removed. Among other reasons for declaring it unconstitutional.
That's not a real great comparison you want to stand on with this topic.
In the case of Florida, if the House bill becomes law, what is to stop undue burden against felonious voters by laying abnormally high court fines and fees? The article already cites that the existing standard is "paid back restitution".
Florida is funding a significant part of its criminal justice system on the back of those fines and fees.
Edit-Also, California Prop 8 passed with a relatively narrow majority, basically 52.25%-47.75%. A difference of 600k votes.
Florida Amendment 4 passed 64.55%-35.45%. A difference of over 2.3 million votes.
Not that it matters much in a legal sense, but that is a much clearer majority, of "voter will", if you will.
Who's to say they will stop at draconian fines?? If enough people end up paying them, they'll then pass a bill that requires ex-felons to make a circular rock formation outside their residence and stand in it at exactly 12:01am on May 16th and sing the entirety of Johnny Cash's "At Folsom Prison" album in front of a certified notary public. Because what they are arguing is that literally ANY stipulation not directly addressed by the referendum can be added as a caveat.
This is a poll tax. Florida voters OVERWHELMINGLY voted to restore felon voting rights after they serve their sentence. Based on the discrepancy in the vote between this ballot initiative and the Senate and Governor races, TONS of Republican voters pulled the lever for it too. But there was no way Republican officials were going to let this stand, or be reined in by something as silly as a ballot initiative voted on by the citizens of the state. This effectively nullifies the referendum. What percentage of these people getting out are going to have ANY money whatsoever, much less to spend on restoring their voting rights in a monetary way that the voters of Florida already DEMANDED they get back??
Kind of like how the Liberals just laid back and allowed Prop 8 to stand in California, right? Apparently the people only have the right to vote in ballot proposals the majority party in that state like. Republicans in Florida are no worse than Democrats in California...
Prop 8 was because opponents of LGBT rights couldn't stand Prop 22 being declared unconstitutional. And then Prop 8 gets declared unconstitutional because declaring Prop 22 unconstitutional restored rights of marriage, which Prop 8 re-removed. Among other reasons for declaring it unconstitutional.
That's not a real great comparison you want to stand on with this topic.
In the case of Florida, if the House bill becomes law, what is to stop undue burden against felonious voters by laying abnormally high court fines and fees? The article already cites that the existing standard is "paid back restitution".
Florida is funding a significant part of its criminal justice system on the back of those fines and fees.
Edit-Also, California Prop 8 passed with a relatively narrow majority, basically 52.25%-47.75%. A difference of 600k votes.
Florida Amendment 4 passed 64.55%-35.45%. A difference of over 2.3 million votes.
Not that it matters much in a legal sense, but that is a much clearer majority, of "voter will", if you will.
That may be but in a 'democracy' it was still the will of the people. We are not a democracy. I'm just trying to point that out. There are many cases where the majority is just outright wrong. Picking and choosing those cases on what you believe is disingenuous. If the majority is wrong in Prop 8, they can be wrong in Florida too. The same 52-48 is the exact same margin for Trump's win but that's looked at as 'undemocratic'. Whoop de doo, the majority is only right if the party in power agrees with them, period!
@Balrog99 you're not addressing his actual points. (Can't tell if you're being purposefully disingenuous...) Among others, they are apples to oranges. There's a difference between something passed by a majority being unconstitutional, vs. being blatantly stymied by officials in power for solely political reasons that have nothing to do with its constitutionality.
The same 52-48 is the exact same margin for Trump's win
Really? How do you figure?
52 Democrat, 48 Republican with the electoral votes being the deciding factor rather than popular vote. The Democrats decided to bring Prop 8 to the courts. They didn't have to if they were really concerned with the will of the people. My point is that neither party gives a flying shit about the will of the people unless the people agree with them.
@Balrog99 you're not addressing his actual points. (Can't tell if you're being purposefully disingenuous...) Among others, they are apples to oranges. There's a difference between something passed by a majority being unconstitutional, vs. being blatantly stymied by officials in power for solely political reasons that have nothing to do with its constitutionality.
The same 52-48 is the exact same margin for Trump's win
Really? How do you figure?
52% voted for the Democrat
48% voted for the Republican
Therefore the Republican wins, just like god and the founding fathers intended. And if you don't agree, you're a godless, socialist baby killer who hates America.
(Apologies to actual participants. The straight line was too good to pass up.)
@Balrog99 you're not addressing his actual points. (Can't tell if you're being purposefully disingenuous...) Among others, they are apples to oranges. There's a difference between something passed by a majority being unconstitutional, vs. being blatantly stymied by officials in power for solely political reasons that have nothing to do with its constitutionality.
The same 52-48 is the exact same margin for Trump's win
Really? How do you figure?
52% voted for the Democrat
48% voted for the Republican
Therefore the Republican wins, just like god and the founding fathers intended. And if you don't agree, you're a godless, socialist baby killer who hates America.
(Apologies to actual participants. The straight line was too good to pass up.)
Brazil’s Bolsonaro Cancels NYC Trip After Environmentalists, Bill de Blasio Object
For months, the Brazilian-American Chamber of Commerce has faced backlash from leftist activists over the Bolsonaro award. Last month, the longtime host of the gala, the American Museum of Natural History, announced it would no longer host the gala, though it had allegedly made the move “with mutual respect for the work & goals of [their] individual organizations.” Environmentalists and graduate students associated with the museum launched a campaign to keep Bolsonaro out, calling him a “fascist” and threatening to resign from their positions with the institution.
The scholars accused Bolsonaro of attempting to destroy the Amazon rain forest. Bolsonaro has reportedly considered eliminating the federal “National Council of the Environment,” a bureaucratic entity of more than 100 people, and replacing it with a more streamlined mechanism to achieve the same goal of protesting Brazil’s rich natural resources.
Bill de Blasio, a leftist who made fundraising for the violent communist Sandinistas in Nicaragua one of his first acts in the political sphere, waded into the controversy, disparaging Bolsonaro for his alleged “overt racism and homophobia” and calling him “a very dangerous human being.”
Comments
Too many of them still think institutions, norms and precedent are going to save things. And they aren't going to. Not this time. And I agree with @Balrog99 on one thing. Trump could easily win given the structural advantages of the electoral college and a number of other factors. More and more this is feeling like 2003 to me. The Democratic Party is split. Those who don't follow things closely are behind Biden on name recognition. But the real issue is that there is no indication that the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home or voted for Trump last time have changed their minds. They are still "Bernie or bust" and will simply not accept any of the other candidates.
The Democratic Party is ill-equipped to deal with Trump & Co. from my vantage point. They're fighting with both hands tied behind their back because of having to appear 'righteous' in an arena where righteousness is a liability. Liberals seem to live in a fantasy-land where everybody obeys the laws, people don't act in their own best interests, and government is a force for good. It's a wonderful idea for a movie plot, but not much based in reality.
It's not righteousness so much as thinking that rules still matter. I don't know how times Lucy has to pull the football away before they realize it's going to happen every time no matter what the situation is. Merrick Garland should have been the end of that delusion. Trump's first two years should have DEFINITELY erased any of the lingering doubts.
The problem is Democrats genuinely believe government can and does work. Republicans used to be for LIMITED government. What the Democrats seem to be missing is that Republicans are no longer trying to limit government, they are trying to destroy it.
I really don't think bernie or bust was such a big thing that it threw the election to trump and would appreciate dropping this infighting point. Plenty voted for Hillary who supported Bernie such as myself. Enough with the 2016, it's 2020 that is in the future. Do I support Bernie over Biden? Of course, Biden has no positions now only platitudes and he has a history of doing the wrong thing like Republicans do all the time - pro-corporate, pro-war, anti-middle class. That being said if Biden wins the nomination is he better than Trump? Of course don't be silly.
Speaking of throwing the election to Trump, I'm looking for an answer to why if someone says "Trump's a asshole" or something the default response is "And that's why Trump won!" the notion being that because the left is incivil once that bam that's what got Trump elected yet Trump and his supporters are uncivil all the time and there's no corresponding outpouring of support to the left? There's no "and that's why the left won" or "that's why I'm leaving the Republican party" or whatever. Odd.
It's the same reason that people rejoice when a religious leader (especially a Christian) screws up and gets caught. Democrats preach so much that it's like listening so an f'ing sermon every time they speak. The only difference is that they don't tell me I'm going to Hell, they just tell me that I'm a bigoted, elitist, fascist, racist if I don't vote for them...
Touché!
Edit: Oh, and you're going to Hell!
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/25/18277470/amendment-4-florida-felon-voting-rights-fees-legislation
That is a strawman. What republican said that?
Is like i say "and democrats tell me that i an an evil nazi, who don't care about the poor if o don't vote for then"
Here is an interesting video. Ted Cruz talking Ellen Page about LGBTQ+ rights.
Kind of like how the Liberals just laid back and allowed Prop 8 to stand in California, right? Apparently the people only have the right to vote in ballot proposals the majority party in that state like. Republicans in Florida are no worse than Democrats in California...
Where i've said that? i said "there are some people who say" and i demonstrated why this idea is wrong.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/trump-messed-up-the-clock-on-usmca-current-form-dead-former-u-s-ambassador-1.4407446
This was allegedly is biggest accomplishment and it is about to fall apart. Hopefully the American public will be educated enough on the topic come 2020 when he starts saying he fixed “NAFTA.”
Shocking.
Trump is a joke how does anyone take anything he says as anything other than self serving lies.
Supposedly Barr has opened an investigation into the oranges of the investigation as well. Kamala Harris is asking the IG in the Justice Department to investigate Barr because he seems to be on a politically motivated investigation ordered by Trump.
The bar association in DC is being asked to open an investigation into Barr for his lies about the Mueller report. After releasing a wildly misleading four-page "summary" of Mueller's report in March, Barr then purposefully misled Congress about whether Mueller disagreed with Barr's assessment. Barr also claimed that Trump was within his rights to fire an independent counsel if Trump felt aggrieved or needed a safe space. So he revealed himself as a spineless liar. Hope he loses his law license and ends up in prison for his role in all this.
Prop 8 was because opponents of LGBT rights couldn't stand Prop 22 being declared unconstitutional. And then Prop 8 gets declared unconstitutional because declaring Prop 22 unconstitutional restored rights of marriage, which Prop 8 re-removed. Among other reasons for declaring it unconstitutional.
That's not a real great comparison you want to stand on with this topic.
In the case of Florida, if the House bill becomes law, what is to stop undue burden against felonious voters by laying abnormally high court fines and fees? The article already cites that the existing standard is "paid back restitution".
Florida is funding a significant part of its criminal justice system on the back of those fines and fees.
Edit-Also, California Prop 8 passed with a relatively narrow majority, basically 52.25%-47.75%. A difference of 600k votes.
Florida Amendment 4 passed 64.55%-35.45%. A difference of over 2.3 million votes.
Not that it matters much in a legal sense, but that is a much clearer majority, of "voter will", if you will.
Who's to say they will stop at draconian fines?? If enough people end up paying them, they'll then pass a bill that requires ex-felons to make a circular rock formation outside their residence and stand in it at exactly 12:01am on May 16th and sing the entirety of Johnny Cash's "At Folsom Prison" album in front of a certified notary public. Because what they are arguing is that literally ANY stipulation not directly addressed by the referendum can be added as a caveat.
That may be but in a 'democracy' it was still the will of the people. We are not a democracy. I'm just trying to point that out. There are many cases where the majority is just outright wrong. Picking and choosing those cases on what you believe is disingenuous. If the majority is wrong in Prop 8, they can be wrong in Florida too. The same 52-48 is the exact same margin for Trump's win but that's looked at as 'undemocratic'. Whoop de doo, the majority is only right if the party in power agrees with them, period!
52 Democrat, 48 Republican with the electoral votes being the deciding factor rather than popular vote. The Democrats decided to bring Prop 8 to the courts. They didn't have to if they were really concerned with the will of the people. My point is that neither party gives a flying shit about the will of the people unless the people agree with them.
52% voted for the Democrat
48% voted for the Republican
Therefore the Republican wins, just like god and the founding fathers intended. And if you don't agree, you're a godless, socialist baby killer who hates America.
(Apologies to actual participants. The straight line was too good to pass up.)
You sorta ninja'd me. Lol!
Trump lost the popular vote 46-48.
(I kind of agree with you that "subverting the will of the people" is not the most persuasive argument for the FL voting rights situation.)
Edit: Quadruple-ninja'd.
source : https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america/2019/05/04/brazils-bolsonaro-cancels-nyc-trip-environmentalists-bill-de-blasio-object/