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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Yup. Laws are not inherently moral. Laws and morals can overlap, but they are separate concepts.
    Balrog99
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm sure all of these dealings are on the up & up. Not!!!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKBN2GT0KF

    My guess is that most of the transactions are legal, but just illustrate the ways in which the rich avoid taxes and attention. This story from the Pandora papers explains how Tony Blair, who was strong on the idea of getting rid of tax loopholes, was able to save £312,000 on stamp duty when acquiring property ...

    'Legal' and 'up and up' aren't necessarily the same thing. If I sell my crypto and make a few bucks on it, you can bet your ass the IRS will be all over me to 'pay my fair share' but meanwhile, when the truly wealthy protect their riches they get cricket noises...

    Edit: Hell, I even have to declare the paltry 0.05% interest I make on my savings account (usually < $10) and the roughly $5 in dividends on the 1 share of my company stock I got as a gift from them when they listed on the NYSE!

    You don't have to declare interest on your interest-bearing accounts if it is less than $10.00 over all the accounts with your Social Security number listed as the main account holder. You shouldn't even be getting a 1099 if that is the case. If you are, it must be for multiple accounts that add up to more than $10.00.
    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm sure all of these dealings are on the up & up. Not!!!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKBN2GT0KF

    My guess is that most of the transactions are legal, but just illustrate the ways in which the rich avoid taxes and attention. This story from the Pandora papers explains how Tony Blair, who was strong on the idea of getting rid of tax loopholes, was able to save £312,000 on stamp duty when acquiring property ...

    'Legal' and 'up and up' aren't necessarily the same thing. If I sell my crypto and make a few bucks on it, you can bet your ass the IRS will be all over me to 'pay my fair share' but meanwhile, when the truly wealthy protect their riches they get cricket noises...

    Edit: Hell, I even have to declare the paltry 0.05% interest I make on my savings account (usually < $10) and the roughly $5 in dividends on the 1 share of my company stock I got as a gift from them when they listed on the NYSE!

    You don't have to declare interest on your interest-bearing accounts if it is less than $10.00 over all the accounts with your Social Security number listed as the main account holder. You shouldn't even be getting a 1099 if that is the case. If you are, it must be for multiple accounts that add up to more than $10.00.

    Still ludicrous that my $10 is worth this hassle but $300k made by some politician isn't worth their time...
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Surprising pretty much no one who wasnt drinking the kool-aid, Congress put out a report today going over the ways in which Trump tried to overturn the election after losing it. The details are pretty gory, with him basically begging the DOJ to step in, say the election was fraudulent and to ask state legislators to send their own slate of electors.

    I feel like that's largely stuff we already knew or suspected - but it really is chilling how close and how hard Trump pushed to end American Democracy as we know it (and how willing so many GOP congressmen were to help him).
    DinoDin
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Surprising pretty much no one who wasnt drinking the kool-aid, Congress put out a report today going over the ways in which Trump tried to overturn the election after losing it. The details are pretty gory, with him basically begging the DOJ to step in, say the election was fraudulent and to ask state legislators to send their own slate of electors.

    I feel like that's largely stuff we already knew or suspected - but it really is chilling how close and how hard Trump pushed to end American Democracy as we know it (and how willing so many GOP congressmen were to help him).

    Not only that, but the 4 men who have been issued subpoenas to testify in regards to what happened on 01/06 are going to ignore them.....based on Trump's explicit orders. They did this when in power, and now they are doing it again when Trump doesn't even hold office. Yet he's claiming "executive privilege" anyway. If this isn't referred to the DOJ, and they don't arrest anyone who doesn't comply for contempt, then they will have quite successfully signaled that they will not be bound by the law in any circumstance, and there is nothing you can do to compel them. It is of vital importance they are not allowed to do this with no consequences.
    DinoDin
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Very enlightening. I've understood the concepts of how the US tax system works (or doesn't work) for a while now but this article explains it better than I ever could...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax/amp
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Ok, so it seems all four of those subpoenaed are literally laughing in the face of the Committee, and simply refusing to honor them. In Bannon's case, he is claiming "Executive Privilege" even though at that point he hadn't worked for the Administration for 3 years and was hosting a podcast at the time.

    If people need a refresher, during the Whitewater investigation in the early-90s, Susan McDougal refused a subpoena and was hauled directly to jail for 18 months. If anyone here ignored one, a warrant would be issued for their arrest. Not doing so here is stunning weakness from a combination of Congress and/or the DOJ, bordering on absolute impotence. What happened after the votes were in last November was a dry run. And now you are just allowing ANYONE associated with Trump to declare themselves immune from all legal consequences of anything they do.

    If these people come prepared with a better plan to end democracy next time, it appears all Democrats will do is wave a rulebook in their face as the conspirators casually walk up to them and cut their throat (metaphorically speaking). Unless someone is willing to enforce the rules, they are utterly meaningless if one side decides to discard them. And to call it appeasement and encouragement to keep walking the same path is an understatement. Why even issue them if you KNOW this will be the response, and you have no intention of backing it up?? Pathetic.

    If they don't show up, haul their ass to jail. There is no other option. Otherwise, you have rendered Congressional subpoena power absolutely useless. I'm amending this because Liz Cheney has issued a statement saying they are going to enforce them. OK, let's see. Because there is only one way to do that. Shit, I almost wish she was in charge of this thing, despite her horrible record on literally everything else. I at least trust Dick Cheney's daughter to have the stones to play hardball.

    Edit: she kind of IS in charge of it as a co-chair. At least, her name is right next to the top Democrat on the letterhead. Their statement indicates criminal referrals for contempt of Congress will be forthcoming if the refusal continues. Again, I'll believe it when I see it. We'll see where we are at this time next week.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    Balrog99Grond0bleusteel
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited October 2021
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

    I think it's a bit telling and interesting if you look at the author's page on politico, 4 of his last 5 articles have been about Hunter Biden. The tone and rhetoric used in those articles insinuate a lot more than the tone used in his Giuliani articles (which, are all related as it pertains to Ukraine).

    Am I saying that the Biden family is squeaky clean? Probably not, but I have some questions relating to the bias of the article posted here. (And that's before considering that Politico was recently bought by a conservative German company. I would expect their reputation for centrism is endangered a bit).



    In other news: In my state (Virginia), they had a rally for the GOP Governor candidate (who wasnt there), and they Pledged Allegiance to a flag that was claimed to have been present at the storming of the capital. So that's lovely.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Again, Hunter Biden is not only not working in the West Wing (Ivanka and Jared) he also is not on the outside throwing bombs on cable news three times a week (Don Jr. and Eric). In fact, if anyone can find so much as a single quote he has uttered to the media in the last 9 months, I'd be shocked. There is absolutely no equivalence whatsoever.

    Also, not for nothing, but I'm gonna be much harder on Politico than people are maybe used to. Check out who owns both them AND The Hill. They are stealth right-wing gossip rags who frame literally EVERY issue through the lense of what right-wing media is saying. If someone doesn't send off a "Dems in disarray" story every 3 or 4 hours, I'm pretty sure alarm bells go off in the office.

    As for that flag situation, I'll point out that the Nazis also did something similar with a flag used at the Beer Hall Putsch.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blutfahne
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

    (And that's before considering that Politico was recently bought by a conservative German company. I would expect their reputation for centrism is endangered a bit).

    Conservative in Germany is probably center in America so I wouldn't expect much of a shift in Politico myself. If there has been a shift, I haven't noticed it anyway.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Again, Hunter Biden is not only not working in the West Wing (Ivanka and Jared) he also is not on the outside throwing bombs on cable news three times a week (Don Jr. and Eric). In fact, if anyone can find so much as a single quote he has uttered to the media in the last 9 months, I'd be shocked. There is absolutely no equivalence whatsoever.

    Also, not for nothing, but I'm gonna be much harder on Politico than people are maybe used to. Check out who owns both them AND The Hill. They are stealth right-wing gossip rags who frame literally EVERY issue through the lense of what right-wing media is saying. If someone doesn't send off a "Dems in disarray" story every 3 or 4 hours, I'm pretty sure alarm bells go off in the office.

    As for that flag situation, I'll point out that the Nazis also did something similar with a flag used at the Beer Hall Putsch.

    Dang, you edited your post quickly. I was just going to comment that the 'Beer Hall Putz' was Hitler! ?
    BallpointMan
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Again, Hunter Biden is not only not working in the West Wing (Ivanka and Jared) he also is not on the outside throwing bombs on cable news three times a week (Don Jr. and Eric). In fact, if anyone can find so much as a single quote he has uttered to the media in the last 9 months, I'd be shocked. There is absolutely no equivalence whatsoever.

    Also, not for nothing, but I'm gonna be much harder on Politico than people are maybe used to. Check out who owns both them AND The Hill. They are stealth right-wing gossip rags who frame literally EVERY issue through the lense of what right-wing media is saying. If someone doesn't send off a "Dems in disarray" story every 3 or 4 hours, I'm pretty sure alarm bells go off in the office.

    As for that flag situation, I'll point out that the Nazis also did something similar with a flag used at the Beer Hall Putsch.

    Dang, you edited your post quickly. I was just going to comment that the 'Beer Hall Putz' was Hitler! ?

    I didn't know how to spell it and left it as a placeholder while I looked it up, since I can't save my post and look up another website without losing it on my phone.
    Balrog99BallpointMan
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

    (And that's before considering that Politico was recently bought by a conservative German company. I would expect their reputation for centrism is endangered a bit).

    Conservative in Germany is probably center in America so I wouldn't expect much of a shift in Politico myself. If there has been a shift, I haven't noticed it anyway.

    That might be fair, I honestly wouldnt know. Of course, I think Murdoch is Australian, and Fox News is pretty right-wing these days. Maybe AU is further to the right in general, but I suspect they're closer to Europe than the USA (Someone will probably correct me on this, haha).
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

    (And that's before considering that Politico was recently bought by a conservative German company. I would expect their reputation for centrism is endangered a bit).

    Conservative in Germany is probably center in America so I wouldn't expect much of a shift in Politico myself. If there has been a shift, I haven't noticed it anyway.

    That might be fair, I honestly wouldnt know. Of course, I think Murdoch is Australian, and Fox News is pretty right-wing these days. Maybe AU is further to the right in general, but I suspect they're closer to Europe than the USA (Someone will probably correct me on this, haha).

    Politico is not overtly right-wing. What they are is absolutely hard-wired into Beltway conventional wisdom, and that conventional wisdom is slanted towards GOP terf, because 50 years of the right working the refs have conditioned them to assume whatever is said on FOX News and by utterly cynical Republican elected officials is just the "other side" of the argument, and no matter how crazy that idea or stance is, it deserves 50/50 weight.

    For an extreme example of where this leads, just look at how everyone bought into the idea that "critical race theory" was about to take over public schools, even though it is only taught in graduate level law school classes in college. Everyone pushing this narrative knew it was bullshit, the people covering the people pushing it knew it was just a disingenuous ploy to the rubes, but it was treated as if it was an actual problem that needed to be discussed anyway. Lo and behold, a few months later, Texas school administrators are now advising teachers who assign literature about the Holocaust to also assign material with "alternate points of view", which I can only assume means "we have to show the pros AND cons of mass genocide":

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/14/texas-school-holocaust-books-race-southlake

    As pissed off as I have been at the Democrats lately (and gonna reach even greater levels when this milquetoast, useless Supreme Court commission releases their findings), every day I read the news and am reminded that we have two viable options, and one of them is an authoritarian death cult, and the other one isn't.

    In regards to what you mentioned before about VA, Democrats NEED to get the win there to put even a couple day halt on the doom and gloom media coverage, which is mostly the result of really bored journalists after the high of the Trump years. McAuliffe is very smartly absolutely pouncing on his opponent's connection to the flag worship incident, and I'm sensing the same thing I saw in California. Tie your opponent to Trump, and toss them in the sea with that anchor around their leg. Fear can work for Democrats as well, and in this period of relative malaise, it's should be the go-to tactic.

    Republicans do this shit ALL THE TIME with Pelosi and The Squad in red state Congressional races. In this day and age, you don't really NEED to run against your opponent. The surest path to getting out your voters is to tie them to the absolute most extreme elements of the other party, and then bludgeon them to death with it.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yikes, the Hunter Biden laptop story has not only NOT gone away, it's looking like there may have been some truth to it after all. So much for Biden being anti-corruption...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/12/hunter-biden-corruption-515583

    (And that's before considering that Politico was recently bought by a conservative German company. I would expect their reputation for centrism is endangered a bit).

    Conservative in Germany is probably center in America so I wouldn't expect much of a shift in Politico myself. If there has been a shift, I haven't noticed it anyway.

    That might be fair, I honestly wouldnt know. Of course, I think Murdoch is Australian, and Fox News is pretty right-wing these days. Maybe AU is further to the right in general, but I suspect they're closer to Europe than the USA (Someone will probably correct me on this, haha).

    Politico is not overtly right-wing. What they are is absolutely hard-wired into Beltway conventional wisdom, and that conventional wisdom is slanted towards GOP terf, because 50 years of the right working the refs have conditioned them to assume whatever is said on FOX News and by utterly cynical Republican elected officials is just the "other side" of the argument, and no matter how crazy that idea or stance is, it deserves 50/50 weight.

    For an extreme example of where this leads, just look at how everyone bought into the idea that "critical race theory" was about to take over public schools, even though it is only taught in graduate level law school classes in college. Everyone pushing this narrative knew it was bullshit, the people covering the people pushing it knew it was just a disingenuous ploy to the rubes, but it was treated as if it was an actual problem that needed to be discussed anyway. Lo and behold, a few months later, Texas school administrators are now advising teachers who assign literature about the Holocaust to also assign material with "alternate points of view", which I can only assume means "we have to show the pros AND cons of mass genocide":

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/14/texas-school-holocaust-books-race-southlake

    As pissed off as I have been at the Democrats lately (and gonna reach even greater levels when this milquetoast, useless Supreme Court commission releases their findings), every day I read the news and am reminded that we have two viable options, and one of them is an authoritarian death cult, and the other one isn't.

    In regards to what you mentioned before about VA, Democrats NEED to get the win there to put even a couple day halt on the doom and gloom media coverage, which is mostly the result of really bored journalists after the high of the Trump years. McAuliffe is very smartly absolutely pouncing on his opponent's connection to the flag worship incident, and I'm sensing the same thing I saw in California. Tie your opponent to Trump, and toss them in the sea with that anchor around their leg. Fear can work for Democrats as well, and in this period of relative malaise, it's should be the go-to tactic.

    Republicans do this shit ALL THE TIME with Pelosi and The Squad in red state Congressional races. In this day and age, you don't really NEED to run against your opponent. The surest path to getting out your voters is to tie them to the absolute most extreme elements of the other party, and then bludgeon them to death with it.

    Wait, you mean it's not about ideas anymore??? ?
  • m7600m7600 Member Posts: 318
    Balrog99 wrote: »

    Interesting article. Yes, anti-establishment sentiments can be found deeply ingrained in both the left and the right. It's a tricky issue. Especially for people that are very impressionable and easily manipulated. More than one politician has taken advantage of such people by pandering to the anti-establishment sentiment that they harbor. And they usually do this for their own personal gain. I believe that one should try to be as clear-headed as possible in these matters. True, there is such a thing as the establishment, or the elite, or whatever you want to call it. But one should always be on the lookout, so as not to fall prey to any professional charlatan that tries to pander to one's anti-establishment sentiments just to secure a vote.
    Balrog99
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Balrog99 wrote: »

    The only thing on that left that has remotely approached QAnon on the batshit level is the 9/11 truther movement, which did exist and still exists. The difference being, of course, that mainstream Democratic politicians didn't turn the entire party over to and start catering to voters who thought Building 7 was a controlled demolition, and the views of Q are practically indistinguishable from mainstream Republican rhetoric.

    Frankly, I would be shocked if most people who have been consumed by QAnon weren't ALSO now 9/11 truthers, even though I am also 100% sure they were and/or would have been enthusiastic Bush voters in 2004. Which just shows you how schizophrenic the entire thing is. As I've said before, never underestimate the role the humiliation of getting Iraq 100% wrong played in Trump's primary success with Republican voters, as he basically offered absolution for their full-throated support of it with his attacks on Jeb.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited October 2021
    And yet more proof that the US has been infiltrated by Bizarro-World, I give you... Q for congress in '22!

    https://gizmodo.com/ron-watkins-the-8chan-troll-and-qanon-evangelist-says-1847873761
    Post edited by Balrog99 on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    I'm really starting to believe that we are living in the Matrix. Is it too late for me to take the blue pill?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-school-says-vaxxed-kids-quarantine-30-days-each-dose-2021-10
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I'm really starting to believe that we are living in the Matrix. Is it too late for me to take the blue pill?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-school-says-vaxxed-kids-quarantine-30-days-each-dose-2021-10

    Lest people think this lunacy is all media-hyped hysteria, my aunt (a hairdresser) has had numerous people tell her while she is doing their hair that vaccinated people are (and I quote) "shedding vaccine" (like it's dandruff or something) and that almost all people ending up in the hospital are vaccinated (which is basically the exact opposite of the truth).

    I am reasonably sure most people here know this, but vaccines to not give you a full-blown case of the virus they are attempting to inoculate you from. It introduces elements of the virus meant to trick your immune system into fighting it, so it is ready to attack when and if the real thing is encountered. This is why when your arm hurts after the first shot, and why body aches and fatigue often follow the second are GOOD things. It means your immune system recognized the threat it got a month ago, and went into overdrive when it saw it again. In my case, my major issue was the fact that I couldn't really do any range of motion with my left arm for a couple days either time, and I was knocked out of commission with general weakness for about 18 hours after the second.

    On the plus side, the employer mandates are proving that very few people (percentage-wise) are willing to lose their job over this, and numbers are up, and cases are down in 40 states. The bad news is the firehose of bullshit around this topic continues unabated. And I will reiterate for the 100th time, that mainstream Republican politicians, up to an including Governors of two of the most populace states, while not being explicitly anti-vaxx, are constantly engaged in behavior that caters to this demographic and their delusions, to the detriment of the 75% who haven't lost their minds.
    Balrog99
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    Colin Powell died today of complications related to COVID-19. In terms of his legacy, it is defined by his internal opposition to the Iraq War, his willingness to sell it before the UN with known falsehoods anyway, and his eventual apology and mea culpa for doing so. In the short term, the media headlines on this have been legitimately harmful, providing the information that he was vaxxed and died from COVID-19 anyway, and leaving out the hugely relevant fact that he was 84-years old and a survivor of a blood cancer that decimates the immune system, vaccine or no. Vulnerable people like Colin Powell are WHY vaccination is not just to protect yourself.
    DinoDinBalrog99BallpointManGrond0
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited October 2021
    I'm tired of the vaccination discussions. At this point I stopped caring about it.

    I told my mom and my friends with decreased immunity to get their vaccinations and boosters, and simply be careful around other people.
    And whatever other people decide for themselves, it will end up as natural selection at some point. As long as my family contributes to a high vaccination rate and are careful towards others I'm fine with it.

    Negatively speaking, the world is overpopulated anyway, and I am more concerned about the environment and the future of my own bhaalspawns than I am about these virus strains. In a few years they probably just become supplements to the seasonal flu shots but you cannot mend a dying earth in a few years.
    Balrog99
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,295
    lroumen wrote: »
    I'm tired of the vaccination discussions. At this point I stopped caring about it.

    I told my mom and my friends with decreased immunity to get their vaccinations and boosters, and simply be careful around other people.
    And whatever other people decide for themselves, it will end up as natural selection at some point. As long as my family contributes to a high vaccination rate and are careful towards others I'm fine with it.

    Negatively speaking, the world is overpopulated anyway, and I am more concerned about the environment and the future of my own bhaalspawns than I am about these virus strains. In a few years they probably just become supplements to the seasonal flu shots but you cannot mend a dying earth in a few years.

    I think it is the best way for most people personally to deal with vaccine deniers right now.

    But if you look outside your bubble it's pretty bad. It sucks for the people who have to watch them die painfully in the agony. It sucks for their sane family, friends and colleagues. It sucks if you have to go to the hospital and it's overloaded due to COVID.

    It sucks if your kid in elementary school has to stay home for a few days since there was a COVID case in the year.

    And it sucks for those who can't be vaccinated right now (certain sick people but especially children), and who have to be careful and jump through extra hoops.
    Balrog99BallpointMan
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Ammar wrote: »
    lroumen wrote: »
    I'm tired of the vaccination discussions. At this point I stopped caring about it.

    I told my mom and my friends with decreased immunity to get their vaccinations and boosters, and simply be careful around other people.
    And whatever other people decide for themselves, it will end up as natural selection at some point. As long as my family contributes to a high vaccination rate and are careful towards others I'm fine with it.

    Negatively speaking, the world is overpopulated anyway, and I am more concerned about the environment and the future of my own bhaalspawns than I am about these virus strains. In a few years they probably just become supplements to the seasonal flu shots but you cannot mend a dying earth in a few years.

    I think it is the best way for most people personally to deal with vaccine deniers right now.

    But if you look outside your bubble it's pretty bad. It sucks for the people who have to watch them die painfully in the agony. It sucks for their sane family, friends and colleagues. It sucks if you have to go to the hospital and it's overloaded due to COVID.

    It sucks if your kid in elementary school has to stay home for a few days since there was a COVID case in the year.

    And it sucks for those who can't be vaccinated right now (certain sick people but especially children), and who have to be careful and jump through extra hoops.

    Also sucks if you wind up with long Covid (or even short Covid) because somebody else is an asshole...
    BallpointMan
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    lroumen wrote: »
    I'm tired of the vaccination discussions. At this point I stopped caring about it.

    I told my mom and my friends with decreased immunity to get their vaccinations and boosters, and simply be careful around other people.
    And whatever other people decide for themselves, it will end up as natural selection at some point. As long as my family contributes to a high vaccination rate and are careful towards others I'm fine with it.

    Negatively speaking, the world is overpopulated anyway, and I am more concerned about the environment and the future of my own bhaalspawns than I am about these virus strains. In a few years they probably just become supplements to the seasonal flu shots but you cannot mend a dying earth in a few years.

    Governments just need to 'carrot and stick' getting vaxxed.

    Here in Ontario, if you can't prove that you are vaxxed you are not allowed to eat at restaurants - even mall food courts. The NHL is back up and running and if you want to attend a Leafs or Senators game, which are allowing full capacity, you have to prove you are vaccinated. Same with restaurants and gyms. If you want your personal lockdown to end, you need to get vaccinated. It's simple.

    We are only sitting at 83% double vaxxed, but as long as the 13% who are unvaccinated (4% have a single dose) have to stay away from large gatherings I am not too worried.
    BallpointManDinoDinjjstraka34Balrog99
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2021
    The police officers quiting because they won't get vaxxed are doing what no protest movement ever could, which is weeding out at least a percentage of them clearly unfit to hold the job they have. These are people who can FORCE citizens to interact with them in the close, closed proximity of their squad car. The idea they should have a choice in this matter if they want to keep THIS particular job is ludicrous. Those who are refusing care absolutely nothing for the safety of the public they supposedly are there to protect, and the exodus of these officers is probably the best silver-lining of this entire nightmare. I can hardly think of a better minimum, baseline litmus test as to whether you should actually be a police officer or not.

    In addition, the Supreme Court, who is a disaster in every other area, tonight signaled challenges to employer mandates aren't even going to be entertained. The whining and bitching can continue, and it will, but it is going to be increasingly difficult to participate in the private sector or even activities most people enjoy without giving in, except in places like Texas and Florida where Abbott and DeSantis are perfectly fine killing their own citizens to placate primary voters. But as we predicted, the 75% were only going to put up with this bullshit for so long.
    Balrog99
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    It sucks, etc etc,... Yes this is true, but I don't think life actually changes significantly if the anti gets vaccinated anyway.

    The vaccination doesn't kill the virus, you only have less symptoms so you can still spread it if you happen to get it. And thus you can spread it still to those having decreased immune systems. People with decreased immune systems are still rendered to isolation for quite some time until an effective enough version of the vaccination is made for them. Their bubble remains.

    For a long while, kids will need to stay at home because of regulations anyhow. My daughter has had sniffles already 6x this year and had to miss 2-4 days of school each time, to get a test and to alleviate symptoms (in all cases no covid found). And then she has to play catch up every few weeks which is so frustrating to a 6 year old who enjoys reading and writing, but is now overloaded with it time in time again (which means she starts to dislike it a bit again).

    The impactful thing of the vaccination is less hospitalizations, and that is already achieved for the population that is vaccinated. In my country about 80% of hospitalizations is people who are not vaccinated due to mere choice, the remaining 20% are some outliers, immune deficient people, and those that got long covid from over half a year ago.

    And this will not change soon because new strains will appear towards which the vaccines are less effective making us start all over again until pharma can predict the bad mutants better.
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