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Are rangers underpowered and lack definition?

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Comments

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 285
    edited December 2018
    DJKajuru said:

    Noloir said:

    If base kit Rangers gained high innate elemental resistances up to a max of 65% and resistance to all types of combat damage up to a maximum of 30-35% (slashing, piercing, missle, and blunt) in spirit with this classes hardiness and constitution it'd have a niche. Even if the combat resistance is a bit much the elemental resistances give it a unique advantage and flavor other classes lack in combat. Granted, potions can make up for that which is why I suggest the combat damage resistances as well but with certain traps and spells like fireball prevalent in BGEE Ranger can serve a unique roll as an elemental damage tank. Justified by his/her years of experience in the rugged wild.

    Resisting hard weather is different from resisting elemental damage. By pnp rules creatures that can't die from extreme cold or drought (such as undead) can still be hurt by cold or fire damage.

    I see your point of making rangers greater survivors, but making class balanced class kits is more of add this/ nerf that logic than justifying a background with new skills. A ranger who can resist cold would have penalties in different climates , for instance.
    Resistances are a bit different than immunities. In the instance of the undead if they aren't completely immune to cold like shades or wailing virgins they have high resistances like vampires with a 50% resist to cold. They can still take damage from the elements but in the spirit of being "undead" not nearly as much as say an ordinary human.

    Environmentental Rangers like
    Arctic and Desert Rangers do exist for within the realm of AD&D 2nd edition but instead of breaking up attributes into a million different subkits it' makes more sense to just combine them and balance the acquisition of skill variables.

    If talking strictly pnp BG tends to deviate here and there. For instance, Cleric/Rangers in the 2nd edition Ranger manual are defined as ascetic "Seekers" who are capable of wielding light crossbows but when multiclassing or dual classing Ranger/Cleric no such option is available. There's room for experimentation.

    RAM021
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 665
    Danacm said:

    DJKajuru said:

    Danacm said:

    Because ranger is not just not equal but inferior to fighter or paladin, i always say ir needs some buffing.

    Same armor and weapon proficiencies, free dual wield and skill in stealth. Why are they inferior?
    Cause the bad spell selection,the hide without backstab, charm animal is all nice but nothing more than just minor flavor, actually not enough useful. The weapon mastery-grandmastery and faster progression is better than the ranger tools. And in a game that mainly a battle game, the fight is where we need abilities not the charm animal.
    Maybe if they has a same xp progression it could be somewhat equal the two.
    @subtledoctor has a point about fighter/thief as ranger role.
    Oh right, forgot about the limit to specialization, since I throw that out.

    Personally, I use a "every class can backstab for double damage from stealth" mod, but even without that, stealth is amazingly useful in vanilla. You can use it to make mages waste spells by ducking out of range and hiding while they're casting which makes them lose targeting, you can use it to advance to melee range without being hit, you can use it to split groups by advancing in stealth to see all the enemies, then backing up so that you just "wake" the edge one(s).

    Spell selection isn't too terrible, but they're not meant to be major casters, it's meant to be a supplement.

    ThacoBellRAM021
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 507
    edited December 2018
    Hm, i like the idea of ranger barbarian. Or the whole woodsman thing become the indentity of ranger rather than barbarian, because its a rather out of fighter kit because of berserker.
    Ranger with 5% physical dr per 5 lvls, d12 hp, maximum chain armor, fastermovement and minor druid spells not a bad class on its own. Without rage ofc.

  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 221
    edited December 2018
    Ranger has always been my favorite class purely because it appeals to me the most. The fact that they are not quite as formidable as a fighter never really bothered me. They can still be pretty brutal and lets be honest.. being a Ranger is much cooler than being a fighter. Also the Ranger gets a much better stronghold quest in BG2 than all other classes. Something about owning your own Ranger cabin and being the town Ranger always felt awesome to me. Plus I would argue that they are not under powered at all. I have still never had any issues completing all the games using a Ranger. Obviously the choice of party helps a lot but my Ranger always feels like a pretty formidable character. There a plenty of classes that feel more under powered to me anyway...

    ThacoBellGusindaAerakar
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 574
    Danacm said:

    Hm, i like the idea of ranger barbarian. Or the whole woodsman thing become the indentity of ranger rather than barbarian, because its a rather out of fighter kit because of berserker.
    Ranger with 5% physical dr per 5 lvls, d12 hp, maximum chain armor, fastermovement and minor druid spells not a bad class on its own. Without rage ofc.

    From what I understand a barbarian's rage ability taps into the same primal energy as druidic magic, so lorewise I think there's enough of a connection there for the classes to bleed into eachother. You could have ranger-like barbarians or barbarian-like rangers.

    I think I read that in 5th edition you can specialize your barbarian such that it gets access to very low level druidic magic, like the ability to see through the eyes of nearby animals and use them for scouting.

    In Starlight and Shadows some barbarians can shapeshift during their rages. The male lead turns into a bear. There's lots of stuff to work with here.

    Danacm
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