Is Sandrah Saga worth it?
rockyracoon
Member Posts: 2
Hi everyone. I'm planning on doing an EET playthrough for the first time (finished the EE games a couple of years ago) and i'm having trouble deciding wether or not to play with the Sandrah Saga mod. At first, i was surprised by the amount of content that it has (quests, character interactions, new zones, extended main story) and got really excited about playing it, so i made a full installation of the EET with all the big mods including it. And then... god it was so cringy. I had her in my party for five minutes and it felt so out of place and badly written that i couldn't continue.
So the question is: Has anyone ever completed the whole mod, and if so, does it get any better character wise? i'm not asking for Chris Avellone levels of writing but come on.
I am also aware of all the drama surrounding the creator, but i am more interested in the overall quality of the mod and how it integrates in the main game + the other quest mods.
Thanks for reading!
So the question is: Has anyone ever completed the whole mod, and if so, does it get any better character wise? i'm not asking for Chris Avellone levels of writing but come on.
I am also aware of all the drama surrounding the creator, but i am more interested in the overall quality of the mod and how it integrates in the main game + the other quest mods.
Thanks for reading!
1
Comments
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/64857/sandrah-saga-for-eet/p1
I think the last 2 pages are mostly helpful as it was after some people already read and played the mod a bit.
This is, frankly, not a good mod by any means. Its only followers are likely people who are hungry for any content, regardless of its quality. The creative decisions are questionable, the character is utterly charmless and a complete stand-in, and a lot of the plot points that are supposed to be epic are just plain stupid and do not make sense. I would not recommend, at all.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/951013/#Comment_951013
It started on the previous page, but that part is the weirdest one.
Frankly at this point the mod only lacks AI powered by SuperScripts to provide the true old-school experience.
YEARS and YEARS ago (God, 2002), back when Everquest was THE MMO (in the West, anyways), there was a conflict thread started by someone on some server's EZBoard forum page. It went on for 8 forum pages with others chiming in to figure out what was going on and why two people were vehemently going at each other, when...the poster screwed up and didn't log off on one account before quoting and ranting at himself. Then the next post was basically "Well, crap." when he realized he had outed himself. (Actually it was a bit more explicit than that)
It was famous for its day and had a webcomic post of it by GU Comics.
Edit-I got some of the details wrong. There's a link to a link to a text doc of it in the above link, it's like 40 pages of text. Basically he was calling out a third person while logged in as one, while clearly describing himself and signing his post as another. And these two characters were supposed to have been different people. The net was closing in on him as others had already guessed that the two people were the same person. Apparently IP tracing wasn't something he'd considered possible.
On the mod - still reading through the code, but it is definitely along the lines of a Total Conversion; an interactive fan-fic centered around Sandrah if you will. The scope far exceeds Tsjuatha or Saerileth, but it follows the same pattern. There has obviously been a ton of love, learning, and work thrown into coding and writing it - so kudos to her for that. (Lots of room in the i.e. community for different sorts of content. We have Improved Anvil, Imoen Romance, and BG1UB, to name three very disparate points on the philosophical spectrum).
Is it worth it? Well, it is your time... if you are having that strong a reaction to the dialogue then I think you have your question answered! The dialogue remains stylistically the same throughout.
I am not a fan of the mod myself, I find the writing and focus to be a pill hard to swallow. I also have a hard time playing a mod that I now know has content from other modders included, whose permission was never asked for. That irks me more than anything else about the mod actually.
If you don't mind those things then I say give it a spin. It adds a lot of content. I would say too much even.
@RVNS is right on the "writing for other NPCs" thing - most modders get itchy about their work being written for without permissions, and there is a fair bit of that that goes on in the mod. Not the "OK" kind, where Sandrah reacts to something happening with another NPC but does it strictly between her and the PC, but actual written lines being put into the mouths of other folks' NPCs directly. Long digression here about modders doing that to the official work but not liking others doing that to their own - go have the debate again somewhere else, please (for the millionth time in every modding community everywhere, probably!
Now, I don't have any trouble with this using my mod - but I wouldn't want to write other modder's NPCs direct lines the way she does. (I escape the conundrum with doing that on retired modders mods by asking, and if there is no one left I use actual .tra lines from the other mod so that Saerileth, for example, actually sounds like Saerileth - written by the original author. I also get permission and build cross-mod dialogues with the other modder if they are active, and put it in Crossmod), but since she is using my NPC to speak new lines, I feel comfortable using her stuff for my mod as an example of dialogue (in this case banters). To be very clear, most modders want creative control. I say right up front and all over the place that Aran is completely open - no worries.
This can give you an idea of what sort of thing you would see in game (so spoilers, probably):
[BANTER 1]
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Ah, good! Wish we had some like yours in th' Cloakwood Campaign when I was in th' Fist.
[SANDRAH] You had no healers?
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Too few - but on top of that they wouldn't be in the middle of the battle like you. Girl, few of your gender can fight like that. And even if, they weren't in th' Flaming Fist.
[SANDRAH] Aran, CHARNAME and me were fighting against the Flaming Fist most of the time we spent at Baldur's Gate, even if against our will.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Hate to say it but I guess we might've lost that battle. Glad I wasn't there any more.
[SANDRAH] We are on the same side now.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Good to know, really good to know.
[BANTER 2]
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Hey, Sandrah, here's a really good wine tonight, come move over, I know you like that stuff.
[SANDRAH] I was not aware you had a taste for it, Aran. I thought quantity means more to you than quality.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] In wine 'n' in gals, yeah, maybe. But try a lot of both an' you find there's good 'uns and bad 'uns all by yourself.
[SANDRAH] (Takes a sip from the offered glass.) Maybe I was prejudiced. This is a good one.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Like th' gal that keeps me company...
[BANTER 3]
[ARAN WHITEHAND] ~Hope I haven't challenged your job here in that troupe, Sandrah gal.
[SANDRAH] Which *job* do you refer to, Aran?
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Thought you're keepin' accounts in that mighty book of yours.
[SANDRAH] Oh, no, that job may be all for you. This tome here holds a lot of useful knowledge and has helped us already quite a bit in our past adventures.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Aye, useful lore's a good thing - I mean, if ya can trust the source. There's an awful lot of windbag storytellers 'round.
[SANDRAH] My father has written most of it and I complete it with my own observations.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] An' yours father's been adventurin', yes? Hey, maybe I met him even?
[SANDRAH] Elminster.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Mystra's Doubtful Virginity, he's your father?
[SANDRAH] Yes.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Huh - that tome's def'nitly worth its weight.
[BANTER 4]
[ARAN WHITEHAND] I see you dig girls and men alike, Sandrah. Per'nally I prefer girls only. But knowin' both - which ones do you like better?
[SANDRAH] The one willing to suit my needs tonight.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Ha, say no more... [Cutscene inferring intercourse]
INTERJECT into passing dialogue
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Enigmatic Sandrah. they say in ol' Times o' Trouble there was goddesses walkin' round here.
[HAERDALIS] Seems AO left one of them here for us.
INTERJECT into passing dialogue
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Sandrah gal seems to be th' only one who's no trouble with this place.
[SANDRAH] I am not really enjoying myself here. We must stand together and give each other strength.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Th' strength of one of theirs matron mothers, yeah. Looks like you really fool 'em into thinkin' you're one. Mystra's Soaked Panties, we should be outa here before th' hype's up.
So, from my perspective...
POSITIVES: Well coded, and the PiD (Player Initiated Dialogue) updates to reflect if the NPC Aran and the NPC Sandrah hook up. Strength of the project: lots and lots of "Sandrah is aware of what is going on/has happened". Interjections that make sense in terms of Sandrah NPC. The 'fade to black" cutscene is a good idea .
CHALLENGES: Some oddities in grammar. Colloquialisms not FR-usual ("dig girls"). Odd inference about Aran being sexist (gender-biased) when there is no referent in his mod. Huge number of examples of Faerunian swearing in Aran Whitehand and on the forum pages, but author chose some new ones that are more directly sexual (not something alluded to, like "Mystra's Bouncing Bosom" - just too directly on point). Each banter and interjection is about Sandrah and focused on Sandrah; no conflicts. Coding loophole - in the version I have, this plays regardless of PC romance status - the PID materials reflect that is intended, as PC gets to comment negatively about it - so potentially PC is forced into Sandrah and Aran having an affair while PC romance is active. (Not a problem for me - I would not write it that way but it seems to fit Sandrah as equal to or greater than the PC - might rub a player the wrong way though).
And since I don't like criticising someone without giving equal opportunity, here, for example, is how I'd make an adjustment to make it feel a little more "balanced" - Banter 3, alternative version:
[BANTER 3 REWRITTEN]
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Aye then, Sandrah. What in Kelemvor's Name do you be doin' haulin' that tome around?
[SANDRAH] Is there something wrong with that, Aran?
[ARAN WHITEHAND] It be your own business. Mayhap you keep it out o' th' way when we be fightin', is all. Do you really need it so close to you all th' time?
[SANDRAH] This tome holds a lot of useful knowledge, and has helped us already quite a bit in our past adventures.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Aye, useful lore be a good thing, if the source be worthy o' trust.
[SANDRAH] My father has written most of it, and I complete it with my own observations.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Well, I suppose you have th' right. An' I have no cause to think you are wrong on your observations. But I don't know naught o' your father.
[SANDRAH] Elminster.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Cyric's... bloody hells. You be havin' me on, eh? Elminster has naught in th' way o' children.
[SANDRAH] Yes. Me. Not joking.
[ARAN WHITEHAND] Forget I said anythin'. Elminster's own words an' observations. Aye, that tome be worth its weight in platinum.
From my perspective, it is still a "Yay Sandrah Is Awesome!" banter. But it is written with the expectation of equality - Aran approaches to criticise, then doesn't immediately accept Sandrah's lineage (shows scepticism).
I've downloaded the mod, I've read the dialogues, but that level of crazy is beyond my tolerance.
Sandrah is a completely different beast since it's more of a mega quest mod centered around a character. I compared it to TDD in my previous post but I think it might be closer to Tortured Souls, albeit at a trilogy-wide scale. Sandrah herself, as a character, has a lot more in common with Chloe than Saerileth.
As on topic - Sandrah is about Sandrah (as the name is implying). Baalspawn is secondary (or tertiary, or non significant at all) in the story. If for whatever reason (scientific?
Somthing to consider: it also combines a lot (if not all of them) other megamods and makes them work together (at list they did work sometime ago). You can refuse to accept Sandrah in your group and simply play the rest of the megamods.
The BG novels were more entertaining for me. The. Freaking. Novels. Were. Time. Better. Spent.
Is tortured soul by Vlad, or are you comparing it to another mod I had in the past where you had to summon a npc via a wand you had to buy inside one shops?
Did you enjoy Vlad's mod? (By the way, it is the one you're talking about where you go to kara-tur).
He was way more aggressive against EE in the beginning, nowadays his stance is neutral.
@Ardanis
Okay thanks, that's what I wanted to hear. Did you like TS?
Anyways, TS starts very poorly. You're on your way to Spellhold when Saemon Havarian just pulls a magic stone out of nowhere to teleport you to Kara-Tur. It pretty much kills all the pacing of the main quest, even more than the Chapter 2 sidequests already do. The place itself is very much about samurais, honor and katanas so depending on your tolerance for rampant Nippon Banzai elements you might either like it or really hate it. Gameplay used to be pretty hard, with some unfair battles during which you had to obey rules (like no items) while your opponents weren't bound by them at all. But again it may very well have changed in 7 years.
It could have been a fun campy sidequest despite the poor start but what really killed the mod for me was the attempt to rewrite Irenicus' personality and motives, transforming him in some sort of cross between Kefka and Seymour Guado. Considering the mod used to be shipped with a FFX title screen it might very be have been intentional and I can only hope the author reverted these changes since then.