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[v3.6] Epic Thieving: More Benefits from High Thieving Skills

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  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    edited August 2019
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    @Grammarsalad

    I'm not great at patching dialogues besides using REPLACE_TEXTUALLY, so any skills that require additional dialogue options are out for me.

    As for Performance, it might be better to have it do something like increase bard song range or duration.

    I was considering some other skill ideas for rangers. One is a skill that increases their visual range (maybe 15 or 20 points per point of increased visual range, since increasing a party member's visual range is very powerful from my experience). I also had several ideas for skills that upgrade the ranger's Charm Animal ability (which is normally pretty useless as there are barely any decent animals to charm beyond BG1). One skill might enable the ranger to charm additional kinds of creatures (e.g. unintelligent monsters like basilisks or wyverns) at certain thresholds. Another might extend the duration of Charm Animal and at a certain threshold make Charm Animal permanent.

    Ooohh, I like those!

    Performance could be done on the fly, regardless of what version one is using, with the right checks etc.

    I have a revision of the charm animal spell* and special ability, called 'charm beast'. I created it a long time ago, so it probably needs to be revised, but basically it allowed the ranger/druid to charm 'animal-like' monstrous animals, like ankhegs and Carrion Crawlers.

    Another thing I have in the works is my 'proficiencies' mod, which incorporates 2e style non-weapon proficiencies into the game (by condensing the weapon profs into bg style group proficiencies). One proficiency was going to be a 'nature lore' like proficiency which had a 'wild empathy' like application that does roughly the same.

    But, Wild Empathy could be a skill for nature likes...it's a thought.

    Heh, yet another thing I had planned was to revise set traps. Like @Ulb , I am not fond of regular thieves getting access to things like time trap. My main inspiration is Adarnis' wonderful 'Trap Revisions' mod, where you can select more and better traps to set based on your set traps ability (with no chance to fail). I was not going to have the thing where you spend money to create the traps, though, and I was going to keep the standard limit of x traps/day (IIRC, that mod allowed you to set an unlimited number of traps as long as you paid and stayed under the 6 per area limit). I also loved the idea of mage/thieves incorporating spells into their traps while non-magic using thieves use more exotic but 'mundane' traps.

    As for Bardic Knowledge (and/or barter), I can do that and, if you like, I'll be happy to donate it to this (frankly awesome) mod. TBH I still have to teach myself how to more dynamically change dialogs. I know the basics, but it's on my list of things to learn. This is motivation, so...

    * Thinking about it, that might have just been hold animal. I know that I moved that spell to 1st level and changed it to 'hold beast' which does hold as described above. I think I had planned to do something similar with Charm animal, but I may not have actually done it.
    Post edited by Grammarsalad on
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    edited August 2019
    Ohh, another idea: Variant attribute bonuses:

    https://github.com/Grammarsalad/B_Kits/issues/47

    This is mostly relevant for 'new' skills, but even a few standard ones like find/remove traps and detect illusion get bonuses based on certain non-dex attributes (i.e. wis and int respectively).

    Edit: Anyway, I'm going to produce this stuff as modular components (in this mod) with the understanding that you can take (and alter) anything you like. No pressure or anything. :)
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Grammarsalad
    Ohh, another idea: Variant attribute bonuses:

    I actually did this for the Use Poison skill, which gets +4% for every point of Intelligence the character has above 10.
    Grammarsalad
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 369
    @OlvynChuru I'm trying to use Use Poison skill, with latest state of master branch of EEex mod and this mod. However, it is not working correctly like the other thief skills. Even if I allocate more skill points to Use Poison during level up screen, on character screen it never increases. It always shows the initial calculation which is done by intelligence + being an Assassin. Any skill points I assign has no effect.

    I'm not sure how relevant it is, but unlike other skills, Use Poison skill is shown twice or thrice on character screen. I'm attaching a screenshot to demonstrate it. My weidu.log is also attached. Thanks

    cbmaq90kqz5o.png
  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    Big World Setup says this mod (Epic Locks & Epic Traps) conflicts with Back to Brynnlaw.

    Why?
    @OlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Endarire I have no idea. I've never even played Back to Brynnlaw.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Ludwig_II A few hours ago, @Bubb incorporated my update to EEex which fixes the problems you were having. You can download the latest version of EEex here.
    StummvonBordwehrLudwig_IIGrammarsaladGusinda
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 369
    Thanks OlvynChuru, works great!
    Grammarsalad
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Member Posts: 176
    Comments based on a test game I'm running right now with this installed:



    Epic Thieving

    The Epic Detect Illusions skill should probably update the text shown for the detect illusion skill when you are able to put points into it. The additional information changes the value of points >100

    The same holds true for all the other Epic Thieving skills. They make changes to the value of the different skill points and none of it is documented in game. Fine for old regulars, but something that a new player would want to know.

    Suggested changed text for the skills at the point selection screen:
    PICK POCKETS: The rogue uses this ability when filching small items from other people's pockets, sleeves, girdles, packs, and so on. With greater skill, a talented rogue can even snatch larger items, including weapons and certain articles of clothing.

    With sufficient skill it is even possible to steal the helmet of a creature's head, boots off their feet, or even the armor from their body.

    *Stealing a creature's helmet requires at least 105 Pick Pockets
    *Stealing a creature's shield/off-hand weapon requires at least 120 Pick Pockets
    *Stealing a creature's boots off their feet requires at least 180 Pick Pockets
    *Stealing a creature's armor requires at least 290 Pick Pockets

    You cannot steal from a hostile creature.

    This skill can also be used to steal from merchants and stores. Each store has a difficulty and there is a 1% chance to steal an item successfully for every 1 point of Pick Pockets the rogue has greater than the stealing difficulty of the store.
    DETECT ILLUSION: While an adventurer searches for traps, his well-trained eyes also allow him to detect the minor inconsistencies caused by illusion spells. This skill is the percentage chance per round of dispelling a nonfriendly illusion spell within 30 ft.

    If an adventurer has over 100 in Detect Illusions, they have a chance to detect illusions even when they aren't actively trying. An adventurer will have a 1% chance to passively detect illusions for every 1 point of Detect Illusions above 100.

    Characters with a Detect Illusions skill of at least 100 can effectively see invisible creatures and target them with spells or abilities.
    Open Locks wrote:
    OPEN LOCKS: A Thief uses this ability to pick padlocks, door locks, and combination locks. More complex locks will typically require greater skill to open successfully.

    Each lock has a target difficulty. If the thief's Open Locks skill is within 5 points of the target lock's difficulty he has a 50% chance of unlocking it on each attempt, while if his skill is equal to or greater than the lock's difficulty, it's guaranteed.

    At higher levels of this skill, it may even be possible to unlock magically reinforced locks that cannot be opened with simple magic.
    Set Traps wrote:
    SET TRAPS: A Thief's skill in disarming traps allows him to create snares of his own. The higher the thief's skill, the more effective their traps.
    OlvynChuruAdam_en_tium
  • UlkeshUlkesh Member Posts: 207
    edited March 2021
    Great mod. I'm currently using Epic Pickpocketing and I'm really fond of it.

    Next playthrough, I think I will install every component.

    There are some thoughts I would like to share:

    1) Epic locks - While I like the new containers with epic locks, I'm kinda wary of the added possibilities that makes you able to open every door, provided that you got a decent thief. It would be cool if this component was splitted between (Allow-sequence-breaking/New epic locks)

    2) How does Epic Traps behave with Kjeron Trap overhaul https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71763/trap-detection-recovery-evasion)? Should I install his mod first and this component last?

    3) A feature request… I read this: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1093404/#Comment_1093404

    and given that I play the ranger class a lot, I would like to say that I'm part of the the people that would be interested in you tweaking the Charm ability of the rangers (and this thought is actually strengthened by the creativity I've seen in High Power Baldur's gate).
    OlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Ulkesh
    Ulkesh wrote: »
    1) Epic locks - While I like the new containers with epic locks, I'm kinda wary of the added possibilities that makes you able to open every door, provided that you got a decent thief. It would be cool if this component was splitted between (Allow-sequence-breaking/New epic locks)

    Don't worry about it. Most of the magical locks in these games are just arbitrary choices to force you to go a certain way in a dungeon. The "sequence breaking" allowed by this component is generally pretty minor and basically never problematic.
    Ulkesh wrote: »
    2) How does Epic Traps behave with Kjeron Trap overhaul https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71763/trap-detection-recovery-evasion)? Should I install his mod first and this component last?

    I recommend you install Epic Traps first and Kjeron's mod after that.
    Ulkesh wrote: »
    3) A feature request… I read this: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1093404/#Comment_1093404

    and given that I play the ranger class a lot, I would like to say that I'm part of the the people that would be interested in you tweaking the Charm ability of the rangers (and this thought is actually strengthened by the creativity I've seen in High Power Baldur's gate).

    Maybe. But I'm not working on this mod at the moment.
    Ulkesh
  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    @OlvynChuru
    To clarify, even with EEex, can you permit stealing from hostile creatures?

    Thankee!
  • UlkeshUlkesh Member Posts: 207
    Been a while since the last time I've played Baldur's gate, but there is one thing that has not yet changed: your mods are a boon.

    Anyway, I've installed this mod on 2.6 and I've been using the most recent version of EeX (this one: https://github.com/Bubb13/EEex/releases/tag/v0.9.4-alpha).

    Every component of this mod installs correctly, apart from the last one, concerning the poison. Debug file here: https://easyupload.io/avt23l

    Virustotal here: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file-analysis/ZTQ1OGE4YTBhN2NjZGE1OThiY2Q0MDU0NjE1ZTNlZjE6MTY0MzQ5MjAyNw==



  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Ulkesh
    Ulkesh wrote: »
    Been a while since the last time I've played Baldur's gate, but there is one thing that has not yet changed: your mods are a boon.

    Anyway, I've installed this mod on 2.6 and I've been using the most recent version of EeX (this one: https://github.com/Bubb13/EEex/releases/tag/v0.9.4-alpha).

    Every component of this mod installs correctly, apart from the last one, concerning the poison. Debug file here: https://easyupload.io/avt23l

    Virustotal here: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file-analysis/ZTQ1OGE4YTBhN2NjZGE1OThiY2Q0MDU0NjE1ZTNlZjE6MTY0MzQ5MjAyNw==



    Currently my mods that require EEex are not compatible with the new version of EEex that works on 2.6, because @Bubb has not yet reimplemented all of the EEex functions and opcodes that I use in my mods.
  • UlkeshUlkesh Member Posts: 207
    Well, thanks for the fast answer. Hopefully, Bubb will update the mod someday so I can enjoy once again the entirety of your stuff :)
  • QuesterQuester Member Posts: 23
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    @Ulkesh

    Currently my mods that require EEex are not compatible with the new version of EEex that works on 2.6, because @Bubb has not yet reimplemented all of the EEex functions and opcodes that I use in my mods.

    Hi @OlvynChuru , to clarify, would the components that do not need EEex (like all the Epic thieving stuff), work as intended on 2.6 if I have the latest EEex installed? Or is the mod as a whole currently incompatible?

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Quester

    The components that don't need EEex should still work.
  • neuroghastneuroghast Member Posts: 7
    Hello. I was super excited to try your mod on my assassin, but it turns out the most important component wasn't installed: use poison; It says it can't find the "resource m__skill.lua" or something along those lines.
    I've tried attaching my debug file here but I'm getting a warning saying the format is not allowed, so I've uploaded it on wetransfer (here) and also sent you an e-mail.

    I've tried reinstalling EEex but it wasn't useful for anything but to uninstall a few class kits and waste almost an hour.

    TIA!
  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    @neuroghast
    Are you using 2.5 since EEex requires 2.5?
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    neuroghast wrote: »
    Hello. I was super excited to try your mod on my assassin, but it turns out the most important component wasn't installed: use poison; It says it can't find the "resource m__skill.lua" or something along those lines.
    I've tried attaching my debug file here but I'm getting a warning saying the format is not allowed, so I've uploaded it on wetransfer (here) and also sent you an e-mail.

    I've tried reinstalling EEex but it wasn't useful for anything but to uninstall a few class kits and waste almost an hour.

    TIA!

    Hi, encountered the same issue and after a bit of digging that's an EEex-related issue. EEex for 2.5 included a component which allowed adding new thief skills. The EEex author has yet to reimplement this on the newer EEex version for 2.6, and until then components that add new thief skills cannot work.
  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    @OlvynChuru
    Install option request: For out of combat skill use (seemingly all skills but Detect Illusion), make it so that having enough of the skill to succeed at all (or at least x% of the time like 10% of the time) means auto success. Because spamming the use button and possibly reload just to ensure it works in a non-threatening environment is a time waster.

    Thankee!
  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    What else is needed to properly and fully update this to 2.6?

    Thankee!
  • zelazkozelazko Member Posts: 74
    Stealing a creature's boots off their feet.

    Feels like the most epic and funny thing you can do in this game. :D

  • EndarireEndarire Member Posts: 1,512
    Imagine this:

    "I'd like to join your social club!" -Thief who says this while stealing his victim's pants and not getting caught.
  • Emardon_LareousEmardon_Lareous Member Posts: 60
    Is the mod compatible with Rogue Rebalancing which replaces the Time Stop Trap?
    As RR improves on the thief classes so much it may be something to consider
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    @Emardon_Lareous
    Is the mod compatible with Rogue Rebalancing which replaces the Time Stop Trap?
    As RR improves on the thief classes so much it may be something to consider

    The trap-setting component of Epic Thieving is not compatible with Rogue Rebalancing, but the rest of the mod should be.
  • Emardon_LareousEmardon_Lareous Member Posts: 60
    I'll perhaps have to use this as an opportunity to learn some modding, it seems like a worthwhile extension as RR has become a mainstay of many installs
  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 270
    My planned runs are always way off in the future (takes me a lot longer to get through the trilogy than it used to), but I definitely am planning/expecting to use this is my next BG run, and possibly in the BG2 part for my current run- currently steering a F/C through BG1 with Skie in the party, and intend to use Skitia's Skie mod so I'll have a pure thief for the first time in a long time in BG2, and my next full run I'm planning on a Rogue Archer PC from the Artisan's Kitpack, so both times I'll have a pure thief in the party
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    Version 3.6 is released!

    The component which adds the Use Poison skill to the game is now compatible with the current version of EEex.

    Download
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