The first Torchlight is very, very Diabloesque in feel and pace. The second imo not as much.
The first Sacred has somewhat clunky controls and lacks drive a bit. I only ever managed to play as seraphim, because she didn't have to target individual monsters, only drop as many celestial lights as possible and bask in them while everything around died to DoT. The second Sacred I played a little, but forgot why abandoned.
The first Dungeon Siege has little drive and no sense of character building. Dungeon Siege 2 I can quite recommend however, because it's both better in above mentioned aspects and you can often run into monsters too strong to take on head on, forcing you to rush into the room, hope to kill one or two jerk before they off your entire party, then run the hell outta there to rez, heal up an re-buff, rinse, repeat.
Van Hellsing - I think I played more than half through it, but got bored eventually.
Titan Quest - quit it after the first boss, felt like "kill a monster, return to town to heal up, repeat".
Also not mentioned yet is Restricted Area. Feels very much like Diablo too, as is set in cyberpunk.
Torchlight 1 and 2 followed the Diablo 1 and 2 template almost to a tee in progression, in basically everything except the amount of classes. Right down to the Matt Uelmen soundtracks and one of the character classes becoming the antagonist of the sequel (The Alchemist). Torchlight is, in every way imaginable, Diablo 1/2 meets Saturday morning cartoons. The second game also has fairly advanced mechanics on enemies for an ARPG, certainly FAR more than any of the 3 Diablo games ever had. A couple of them legitimately reminded me of raid encounters in WoW. I'm not a huge fan of the first game after the first couple of hours, but the second one is very polished and a legitimately great game. There just isn't much reason to play the first one when the second one is available. It's too simplistic.
I disliked the twee, cartoon style of the Torchlight games. Felt Sacred also went too far in that direction for my taste. Diablo 3 got a little bit cartoonish at times.
I disliked the twee, cartoon style of the Torchlight games. Felt Sacred also went too far in that direction for my taste. Diablo 3 got a little bit cartoonish at times.
Sacred is pretty good. I recommend both, one and two. The third is not an aRPG, is just like Diablo 3. They removed everything that ressembles an RPG.
If you don't consider isometric aRPG, i wold recommend Dark Souls. 1 & 2 are pretty good, but DkS 3 has little to no viable build diversity, casters? Heavy armor tanker? None of then are viable. I know cuz i tried to play DkS 3 as a caster but my "backup weapon" becomes my main weapon.
The unique useful spell on PvP is farron flashsword all other spells are easily dodged or has insanely long casting time to be viable
Sacred is pretty good. I recommend both, one and two. The third is not an aRPG, is just like Diablo 3. They removed everything that ressembles an RPG.
If you don't consider isometric aRPG, i wold recommend Dark Souls. 1 & 2 are pretty good, but DkS 3 has little to no viable build diversity, casters? Heavy armor tanker? None of then are viable. I know cuz i tried to play DkS 3 as a caster but my "backup weapon" becomes my main weapon.
The unique useful spell on PvP is farron flashsword all other spells are easily dodged or has insanely long casting time to be viable
The number 3 seems to be the kiss of death for RPGs. Now i understand Valve's habit.
Sacred is pretty good. I recommend both, one and two. The third is not an aRPG, is just like Diablo 3. They removed everything that ressembles an RPG.
If you don't consider isometric aRPG, i wold recommend Dark Souls. 1 & 2 are pretty good, but DkS 3 has little to no viable build diversity, casters? Heavy armor tanker? None of then are viable. I know cuz i tried to play DkS 3 as a caster but my "backup weapon" becomes my main weapon.
The unique useful spell on PvP is farron flashsword all other spells are easily dodged or has insanely long casting time to be viable
The number 3 seems to be the kiss of death for RPGs. Now i understand Valve's habit.
LOL
The Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind still very good. Mass Effect 3 is not bad, mainly if compared to Andromeda.
Sacred is pretty good. I recommend both, one and two. The third is not an aRPG, is just like Diablo 3. They removed everything that ressembles an RPG.
If you don't consider isometric aRPG, i wold recommend Dark Souls. 1 & 2 are pretty good, but DkS 3 has little to no viable build diversity, casters? Heavy armor tanker? None of then are viable. I know cuz i tried to play DkS 3 as a caster but my "backup weapon" becomes my main weapon.
The unique useful spell on PvP is farron flashsword all other spells are easily dodged or has insanely long casting time to be viable
The number 3 seems to be the kiss of death for RPGs. Now i understand Valve's habit.
LOL
The Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind still very good. Mass Effect 3 is not bad, mainly if compared to Andromeda.
A lot of people like Path of Exile. It wasn't really my style, but I think lots of people that like Diablo 3 would like it.
I'm personally very hopeful for Torchlight Frontiers. I haven't tried it yet, but I signed up for alpha and their third alpha test starts March 3. My only concern with it so far it is run by Perfect World. But I like their philosophy so far (basing leveling up on the gear so that the gear can be scaled down when you play with other players lower than you instead of just locking you out of playing together).
Dungeon Quest and Eternium are great options on mobile, although I will admit I haven't checked on them in a while since I had played them thoroughly and needed fresh games.
My favorite ARPG so far was Marvel Heroes (before Omega). Sadly, those servers are down. I hope I find something fast paced with a variety of characters some day. If anybody played that and has found something with that kind of pacing, please let me know!
I liked path of exile...until I got bored. Really, I played it in beta and a little out of beta. I saw the direction. It was going, a game that was ultimately going to be driven by its own economy and being a grind fest so I ultimately stopped playing.
But I was loving my witch necromancer while I had it. She was...not a cockroach.
what i don't like about PoE is that skill gems are tied towards gear so you can find an ultra powerful piece of gear but can't use because there are no socket to use your favorite skill with support gems. But overall, PoE > D3 by any metric. PoE has some flaws, D3 is a flaw.
Oh, also for Mobile: Arcane Soul, Pocket RPG, and Epic Conquest are really good. Pocket RPG and Arcane Soul are old and in their final state. Arcane Soul isn't your usual action RPG though (it is a side-scrolling platformer rather than isometric). Epic Conquest's campaign is done, but it is still in development (they are adding challenges and such).
what i don't like about PoE is that skill gems are tied towards gear so you can find an ultra powerful piece of gear but can't use because there are no socket to use your favorite skill with support gems. But overall, PoE > D3 by any metric. PoE has some flaws, D3 is a flaw.
I actually liked that, because it meant my choices had a real meaning, do I want these stats or do I want my build. There were times I actually chose the item over my build until I got the or a that let me so thing like add gem slots and change gem slot colors on the item.
But I can understand why someone wouldn't like it, I tend to hate when games ties characters base stats to items and to some extent how you can't use internally learned abilities without a weapon equip or even attack without a weapon equip.
The ONLY thing I don't like about Path of Exile is the limited-time content and leagues. I absolutely despise the idea of time-gates on certain pieces of gear and features. When I play a game, I want to KNOW I have access to all the game has to offer on my own time-table, which is why my vote is always for Grim Dawn between the two of them. It's also why I play Diablo 2 with PlugY. I don't want to have to go on Battlenet realms to make certain Runewords. And I'm not interested in "racing" anyone to get some ring or amulet that will then be removed from the game forever two months later. Path of Exile is great at many things, but the competitive aspect of a genre that shouldn't really have or need one turns me off ALOT, despite what a good value and how well-made it is. I still do not understand how trading for gear in a loot-based game offers any sense of satisfaction compared to finally getting it to drop. That said, it does have a solo self-found mode, but the limited time implementation of certain features and gear that is then (for the most part) removed forever is just something that goes against everything I value in these types of games. It's the main reason I have finally stopped playing World of Warcraft, which is the removal of content after a certain arbitrary time-frame. It drives me nuts.
what i don't like about PoE is that skill gems are tied towards gear so you can find an ultra powerful piece of gear but can't use because there are no socket to use your favorite skill with support gems. But overall, PoE > D3 by any metric. PoE has some flaws, D3 is a flaw.
I actually liked that, because it meant my choices had a real meaning, do I want these stats or do I want my build. There were times I actually chose the item over my build until I got the or a that let me so thing like add gem slots and change gem slot colors on the item.
But I can understand why someone wouldn't like it, I tend to hate when games ties characters base stats to items and to some extent how you can't use internally learned abilities without a weapon equip or even attack without a weapon equip.
Why stats exist on RPG's? To MEASURE your character capabilities.
In a world where the average untrained and uneducated peasant has 10 STR/DEX/INT, if you have 15 STR and 18 INT, you are very strong and a genius. If you have 6 INT, you probably are very dumb. On Earlier fallout games, you can't even talk with very low INT... Someone with 5000x more STR than the average person is a silly concept. Is just like someone who weights 10000 kg or has an IQ of over 8000 IRL. An magical ring that can make you a little stronger is OK, shoes that can "make" you a little tall too, but stats 100% linked towards gear is an awful idea.
The problem is that most very action focused RPG's tends to treat stats like just game mechanics to inflate your damage, the status rarely fulfill an RP propose. The unique very action focused game that did stats right IMO is Dark Souls. Mainly thanks to the diminishing returns.
One thing that i particularly don't understand about this isometric aRPG, is. Why each time they are less and less RPG and more "gear hunting games"? Is not only Diablo 3 that killed any form of character creation, made attributes linked with gear, every skill linked to weapon, etc. Even if you pick an aRPG with in depth character customization like Path of Exile, PoE is much more gear dependent than Diablo 1/2.
The fantasy of killing hordes of monsters with RPG-like progression and customization is something that appeals to me, but do the same thing over and over to maybe get an piece of gear isn't something that attracts me. D2 before runewords was perfect on this aspect me. Gearing was much more about finding random affixes than try get the unique rune that you need or complete sets and get frustrated because you aren't blessed by RNGodness.
I like much more get an better eqquipment by "challenges" like moonlight greatsword on DkS 1(cutting an boss tail) or beating an boss in NG+ and trading his soul(DkS 2)
Levels and gear are just two different mechanics for character progression, nothing about them is inherently bad. Problems only begin when instead of predictable consistency RNG gets inserted into it. But then wild RNG has always been a bane of good game design, early editions of DnD included - just start BG1 and see how your character may die to a lucky roll or may not.
Levels and gear are just two different mechanics for character progression, nothing about them is inherently bad. Problems only begin when instead of predictable consistency RNG gets inserted into it. But then wild RNG has always been a bane of good game design, early editions of DnD included - just start BG1 and see how your character may die to a lucky roll or may not.
Imagine an Harry Potter game where everyone has the same INT/DEX/STR and the clothing that they are wearing dictates the difference between Dumbledore to the worst 1st year student. That is how some games works...
I don't think that gear progression and the traditional stats/levels are the same thing. Even if you include na random element and requires spellbooks like D1 or runes like Sacred 1/2(don't tested the 3). For example, imagine the skill "fireball" vs an "staff that can cast fireball". The skill is something intrinsic to your character. While with the staff, you can become incapable of casting fireballs in one click(drop item/sell item/destroy item), i don't feel that my character is becoming stronger just by getting a new weapon/armor. Become better at using an weapon by other hands, like having much less sway in FNV is more "interesting"
In short, it's a tabletop miniature wargame set in a fantasy world influenced by the Elric of Melnibone series and the dark comedy of Monthy Python. (The Dwarfs are revenge obsessed sticks in the mud who can declrare war on you if you forget to pay them a penny, Chaos warriors are BDSM vikings, Bretonnia is a bunch of King Arthur fanboys that treats paesants like garbage and meat shields, the Orcs are football hooligans with a funny accent, and so on and so forth)
Warhammer 40,000 on the other hand is basically an hodge podge of the original Warhammer fantasy meets Starship Troopers, Dune, Judge Dredd and Nemesis the Warlock and it quickly overshadowed the fantasy version in popularity.
In short, it's a tabletop miniature wargame set in a fantasy world influenced by the Elric of Melnibone series and the dark comedy of Monthy Python. (The Dwarfs are revenge obsessed sticks in the mud who can declrare war on you if you forget to pay them a penny, Chaos warriors are BDSM vikings, Bretonnia is a bunch of King Arthur fanboys that treats paesants like garbage and meat shields, the Orcs are football hooligans with a funny accent, and so on and so forth)
Warhammer 40,000 on the other hand is basically an hodge podge of the original Warhammer fantasy meets Starship Troopers, Dune, Judge Dredd and Nemesis the Warlock and it quickly overshadowed the fantasy version in popularity.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
Let me rephrase, I know of Warhammer I just don't know it.it never seemed like something that would hold my interest.
I'm personally a bit tired of this "don't you have phones" joke being trotted out every time Diablo or Blizzard is even mentioned. It was funny for a couple of days, but it's still filling up YouTube comment sections 6 months later. The Diablo Immortal announcement was a disaster, but people are really beating a dead horse at this point. Blizzard has really pissed me off as a longtime fan the last year, but I think the point has sorta been made by now. Instead of discussing hugely problematic industry trends that led to that Blizzcon announcement, the entire thing has been reduced to a couple of one-liners.
Which leads to a couple of other points. One is that Diablo 3 isn't NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be. It's a really good game in it's own right. And since it charted a different course than its predecessor, we got Path of Exile and Grim Dawn filling the void. All 3 games offer something valuable to the genre. D3 has the smoothest gameplay, Path of Exile the online economy and ladder elements, and Grim Dawn caters to those who crave a rich, deep, solo experience.
I checked a few YT videos, having never heard of this game before. It looks good, but very, very cliché and diablo 3-esque. I haven't read up on all the finer details, but the graphics (the yellow damage numbers etc) looks exactly like diablo 3, Wolcen, and probably ten more in the genre. So, to be good (or great) in such stiff competetion you have to bring something new and fresh to the table.
I too think GD brought the best single player experience in a long time and I also liked the dual class mechanic which opened up a lot of funny and interesting builds. Wolcen looks cool, but pretty bland and generic, and so does this Warhammer. If you aren't an old Warhammer fan boi, which I am not, I think it might be hard to see what this game has to offer that is unique. It loks smooth, nice and polished from what I can see, but I only found info on 4 classes, which is weak. I assume they will then release other classes as DLCs and you have to pay for them. A bit greedy if it is like that, but let's see.
Another thing I noted from watching YT videos was the insane damage infflation, from starting doing damage in the 20's, to later in the video doing consistant damage about 20 000 per hit. Of course damage, defense improvements etc are important in Action RPGs, but that is pretty insane. Most games have this though, so it's not unique for this game. My very personal opinion would be to have the genre evolve into something else, where higher difficulty levels means you have to combine skills effecienctly to make yourself do more damage and more defensive rather than just a flat or exponential damage and defense curve, but hey.. maybe that's me. I still have fond memories of early D3 playing a demon hunter with crappy gear and actually having to use a combination for 4 skills or so just to take down anything; rapid fire, shadowstep, flames and something else. I don't remember the skill names now, but I remember how I had to execute that skill order to be able to dish out enough damage and also evade damage. This was on normal on my very first playthough of D3 though, and of course, that game went down the same route of inflation later on as all games do.
Can't someone come in and revive the ARPG genre with something new, something fresh?
/end grumpy old man rant
Comments
The first Sacred has somewhat clunky controls and lacks drive a bit. I only ever managed to play as seraphim, because she didn't have to target individual monsters, only drop as many celestial lights as possible and bask in them while everything around died to DoT. The second Sacred I played a little, but forgot why abandoned.
The first Dungeon Siege has little drive and no sense of character building. Dungeon Siege 2 I can quite recommend however, because it's both better in above mentioned aspects and you can often run into monsters too strong to take on head on, forcing you to rush into the room, hope to kill one or two jerk before they off your entire party, then run the hell outta there to rez, heal up an re-buff, rinse, repeat.
Van Hellsing - I think I played more than half through it, but got bored eventually.
Titan Quest - quit it after the first boss, felt like "kill a monster, return to town to heal up, repeat".
Also not mentioned yet is Restricted Area. Feels very much like Diablo too, as is set in cyberpunk.
Diablo III tried hard to look like Warcraft.
If you don't consider isometric aRPG, i wold recommend Dark Souls. 1 & 2 are pretty good, but DkS 3 has little to no viable build diversity, casters? Heavy armor tanker? None of then are viable. I know cuz i tried to play DkS 3 as a caster but my "backup weapon" becomes my main weapon.
The unique useful spell on PvP is farron flashsword all other spells are easily dodged or has insanely long casting time to be viable
The number 3 seems to be the kiss of death for RPGs. Now i understand Valve's habit.
LOL
The Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind still very good. Mass Effect 3 is not bad, mainly if compared to Andromeda.
Mass Effect 3 Is pretty good except the ending.
I'm personally very hopeful for Torchlight Frontiers. I haven't tried it yet, but I signed up for alpha and their third alpha test starts March 3. My only concern with it so far it is run by Perfect World. But I like their philosophy so far (basing leveling up on the gear so that the gear can be scaled down when you play with other players lower than you instead of just locking you out of playing together).
Dungeon Quest and Eternium are great options on mobile, although I will admit I haven't checked on them in a while since I had played them thoroughly and needed fresh games.
My favorite ARPG so far was Marvel Heroes (before Omega). Sadly, those servers are down. I hope I find something fast paced with a variety of characters some day. If anybody played that and has found something with that kind of pacing, please let me know!
But I was loving my witch necromancer while I had it. She was...not a cockroach.
But I can understand why someone wouldn't like it, I tend to hate when games ties characters base stats to items and to some extent how you can't use internally learned abilities without a weapon equip or even attack without a weapon equip.
Why stats exist on RPG's? To MEASURE your character capabilities.
In a world where the average untrained and uneducated peasant has 10 STR/DEX/INT, if you have 15 STR and 18 INT, you are very strong and a genius. If you have 6 INT, you probably are very dumb. On Earlier fallout games, you can't even talk with very low INT... Someone with 5000x more STR than the average person is a silly concept. Is just like someone who weights 10000 kg or has an IQ of over 8000 IRL. An magical ring that can make you a little stronger is OK, shoes that can "make" you a little tall too, but stats 100% linked towards gear is an awful idea.
The problem is that most very action focused RPG's tends to treat stats like just game mechanics to inflate your damage, the status rarely fulfill an RP propose. The unique very action focused game that did stats right IMO is Dark Souls. Mainly thanks to the diminishing returns.
I don't know anything about Warhammer so I can't help you there
The fantasy of killing hordes of monsters with RPG-like progression and customization is something that appeals to me, but do the same thing over and over to maybe get an piece of gear isn't something that attracts me. D2 before runewords was perfect on this aspect me. Gearing was much more about finding random affixes than try get the unique rune that you need or complete sets and get frustrated because you aren't blessed by RNGodness.
I like much more get an better eqquipment by "challenges" like moonlight greatsword on DkS 1(cutting an boss tail) or beating an boss in NG+ and trading his soul(DkS 2)
Imagine an Harry Potter game where everyone has the same INT/DEX/STR and the clothing that they are wearing dictates the difference between Dumbledore to the worst 1st year student. That is how some games works...
I don't think that gear progression and the traditional stats/levels are the same thing. Even if you include na random element and requires spellbooks like D1 or runes like Sacred 1/2(don't tested the 3). For example, imagine the skill "fireball" vs an "staff that can cast fireball". The skill is something intrinsic to your character. While with the staff, you can become incapable of casting fireballs in one click(drop item/sell item/destroy item), i don't feel that my character is becoming stronger just by getting a new weapon/armor. Become better at using an weapon by other hands, like having much less sway in FNV is more "interesting"
Here's a page on the original wargame. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Warhammer
And this is the Roleplay tie-in https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/WarhammerFantasyRoleplay
In short, it's a tabletop miniature wargame set in a fantasy world influenced by the Elric of Melnibone series and the dark comedy of Monthy Python. (The Dwarfs are revenge obsessed sticks in the mud who can declrare war on you if you forget to pay them a penny, Chaos warriors are BDSM vikings, Bretonnia is a bunch of King Arthur fanboys that treats paesants like garbage and meat shields, the Orcs are football hooligans with a funny accent, and so on and so forth)
Warhammer 40,000 on the other hand is basically an hodge podge of the original Warhammer fantasy meets Starship Troopers, Dune, Judge Dredd and Nemesis the Warlock and it quickly overshadowed the fantasy version in popularity.
Let me rephrase, I know of Warhammer I just don't know it.it never seemed like something that would hold my interest.
It looks indistinguishable from Diablo.
Do you not have a phone?
Which leads to a couple of other points. One is that Diablo 3 isn't NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be. It's a really good game in it's own right. And since it charted a different course than its predecessor, we got Path of Exile and Grim Dawn filling the void. All 3 games offer something valuable to the genre. D3 has the smoothest gameplay, Path of Exile the online economy and ladder elements, and Grim Dawn caters to those who crave a rich, deep, solo experience.
I too think GD brought the best single player experience in a long time and I also liked the dual class mechanic which opened up a lot of funny and interesting builds. Wolcen looks cool, but pretty bland and generic, and so does this Warhammer. If you aren't an old Warhammer fan boi, which I am not, I think it might be hard to see what this game has to offer that is unique. It loks smooth, nice and polished from what I can see, but I only found info on 4 classes, which is weak. I assume they will then release other classes as DLCs and you have to pay for them. A bit greedy if it is like that, but let's see.
Another thing I noted from watching YT videos was the insane damage infflation, from starting doing damage in the 20's, to later in the video doing consistant damage about 20 000 per hit. Of course damage, defense improvements etc are important in Action RPGs, but that is pretty insane. Most games have this though, so it's not unique for this game. My very personal opinion would be to have the genre evolve into something else, where higher difficulty levels means you have to combine skills effecienctly to make yourself do more damage and more defensive rather than just a flat or exponential damage and defense curve, but hey.. maybe that's me. I still have fond memories of early D3 playing a demon hunter with crappy gear and actually having to use a combination for 4 skills or so just to take down anything; rapid fire, shadowstep, flames and something else. I don't remember the skill names now, but I remember how I had to execute that skill order to be able to dish out enough damage and also evade damage. This was on normal on my very first playthough of D3 though, and of course, that game went down the same route of inflation later on as all games do.
Can't someone come in and revive the ARPG genre with something new, something fresh?
/end grumpy old man rant