Extended pre-alpha gameplay trailer is up, fresh from E3.
Edit: swapped the short E3 trailer for the extended one.
It really makes me think of how the last couple of Deus Ex games played, which is good IMHO. While the last Deus Ex was kind of weak, it was more because of how few hubs and locations there were, not so much the game play.
It's weird seeing that and hearing them talk about "The Jungle," which was the major homeless encampment in Seattle for a long time, but was cleared out a few years ago. I'm sure there's people back in there already. It's a little weird thinking that scene with the character chasing the nosferatu and killing people, is murdering homeless in The Jungle, though. I also clearly recognized Pioneer Square. You can buy crack a block away from the spot I saw in the video.
I like generation as a stat that can not simply be raised by experience. If you think about it, in the setting vampirism is a punishment by God for Caine betraying & murdering his father. And the punishment is that in vampire society you always have to be afraid of the same happening to you, never allowing for trust to build between sires and their progeny.
Think about how it works. As a vampire you reach a cap where you will never become as powerful as your sire. Where you will always be at the mercy of vampires of lower generation. The temptation to commit diablerie is extremely high.
As a sire/elder you can never your progeny, as the only way for them to reach even greater power is through you. You can't even easily sire more as you grow older, because as a fledgling with relatively low generation you are sort of a walking target.
And the in-lore history of vampirism reflects this, with the younger vampire overthrowing their (justifiably so) paranoid elders again and again. It starts back when the 2nd generation was overthrown to the anarch revolt and to present days.
The game stat of "generation" is the underpinning of the curse of Caine.
In terms of gameplay, I don't think it is much of an issue. First off, you need a lot of playtime to even get generation-capped in power. There are extremely potent workaround to temporarily lower your generation, etc.
Still, the latest VtM version improves it by adding a version of blood potency in addition tol generation, where your blood potency increases with age within bounds given by your generation. So a old 13th generation vampire could match a fledgling 6th generation vampire, but that is the outer limit. And with experience the 6th generation fledgling will start quickly outmatching the older 13th generation vampire. In gameplay terms the 6th generation vampire has minimum blood potency of 3 to a maximum of 8, while the 13th generation vampire starts at 1 and can go up to 3 (until he decreases his generation by diablerie).
I like generation as a stat that can not simply be raised by experience. If you think about it, in the setting vampirism is a punishment by God for Caine betraying & murdering his father. And the punishment is that in vampire society you always have to be afraid of the same happening to you, never allowing for trust to build between sires and their progeny.(...)
This on WoD, but lets be honest. Myths of vampirism got popularized by slavic folklore and should be more "pagan" than christian IMO, monotheism is very recent if you look to human history. And honestly, an literal interpretation of bible breaks my immersion of disbelief. The myth of everyone on humanity being punished by an 100% just and omnipotent but at the same time that has anger and other human emotions and despite being omnipotent sacrifices himself to himself to forgive the humanity for sins that our ancestors commited, then to clear the planet from Evil, instead of just killing all sinners, make an guy pick all types of animals, from Penguins to Polar bears and tons of insect species and put in a small ship, then re populate the planet and generate all human diversity, is something that breaks my suspension of disbelief.
This not mentioning all contradictions that it generates with Kuei Jins, Werewolves, etc; that have non christian lores. his not mentioning make Set, an God that is far more ancient than any monotheistic religion into just another vampire.
As for "generation cap", that is an bad idea. An 8th gen Tremere could live forever, drink the blood of the strongest magicians, spend decades studing, training, etc; the best way to him to reach advanced disciplines, is diablere or pick an blood of an elder, uses it to sire an fledgeling and diablere the fledgeling. he will lower his gen to elder + 1. The concept of Generation has so many exploits that i don't even knwo where to start listening. First, why allow higher gen vampires to sire if they fear that thin blooded will bring the end of times? Create an rule that only the blood of 4/5/6 vampires can be used to sire and if you are a 7th gen vampire, you drink the blood, then put the low gen blood into the victim.
Why nobody uses that exploit? Is a mechanic that makes no sense. If i an an Tremere elder, i will only allow my sirers to sire with my blood to reduce the temptation of diablere, maintain my clan stronger than another clans, etc;
And some times the rule makes no sense. The ritual trying to replicate "gods curse" from tremere, everyone used the same vampiric blood, but Tremere got 4th gen, Goratrix 5 and some others 6/7, using the same blood. Why???? How this is possible?
VtR kinda solved this problems.
Sadly, doesn't have interesting clans politics and memorable clans...
I like generation as a stat that can not simply be raised by experience. If you think about it, in the setting vampirism is a punishment by God for Caine betraying & murdering his father. And the punishment is that in vampire society you always have to be afraid of the same happening to you, never allowing for trust to build between sires and their progeny.(...)
This on WoD, but lets be honest. Myths of vampirism got popularized by slavic folklore and should be more "pagan" than christian IMO, monotheism is very recent if you look to human history. And honestly, an literal interpretation of bible breaks my immersion of disbelief. The myth of everyone on humanity being punished by an 100% just and omnipotent but at the same time that has anger and other human emotions and despite being omnipotent sacrifices himself to himself to forgive the humanity for sins that our ancestors commited, then to clear the planet from Evil, instead of just killing all sinners, make an guy pick all types of animals, from Penguins to Polar bears and tons of insect species and put in a small ship, then re populate the planet and generate all human diversity, is something that breaks my suspension of disbelief.
This not mentioning all contradictions that it generates with Kuei Jins, Werewolves, etc; that have non christian lores. his not mentioning make Set, an God that is far more ancient than any monotheistic religion into just another vampire.
As for "generation cap", that is an bad idea. An 8th gen Tremere could live forever, drink the blood of the strongest magicians, spend decades studing, training, etc; the best way to him to reach advanced disciplines, is diablere or pick an blood of an elder, uses it to sire an fledgeling and diablere the fledgeling. he will lower his gen to elder + 1. The concept of Generation has so many exploits that i don't even knwo where to start listening. First, why allow higher gen vampires to sire if they fear that thin blooded will bring the end of times? Create an rule that only the blood of 4/5/6 vampires can be used to sire and if you are a 7th gen vampire, you drink the blood, then put the low gen blood into the victim.
Why nobody uses that exploit? Is a mechanic that makes no sense. If i an an Tremere elder, i will only allow my sirers to sire with my blood to reduce the temptation of diablere, maintain my clan stronger than another clans, etc;
And some times the rule makes no sense. The ritual trying to replicate "gods curse" from tremere, everyone used the same vampiric blood, but Tremere got 4th gen, Goratrix 5 and some others 6/7, using the same blood. Why???? How this is possible?
VtR kinda solved this problems.
Sadly, doesn't have interesting clans politics and memorable clans...
The preference for slavic folklore is certainly your prerogative
But for the rest - blood has to be transferred directly from the sire, you can't put it in bottle and use it to turn mortals into vampire later on. Except if you are Goratrix who still had awakened magic at that time, which vampires no longer have. BTW in the clan history they all started at the same generation, but had different success in diablerie.
As for not allowing your childer to sire: that has been tried, but this is another consistent part of the setting. Vampires want to sire. It is the one thing that can alleviate their loneliness for a time. It is the closest thing to procreation they have.
And they want the direct connection that siring brings.
One of the better things in the lore is that most of those things have actually been tried before. I.e. the 2nd generation did try to forbid siring to the the 3rd. And where are they now?
Finally, if you want to avoid the literal Adam and Eve, you can use the Demon: The Fallen approach. All creation myths & evolution were all true at the same time when reality had many layers. The multiple layer shattering was part of the Fall.
Ammar, Generation is also an reason to why vampires are far weaker than other supernaturals. Tremere, is one of the most feared clans and ... They are just mages wannabes that uses Thaumaturgy as an limitation of linear magic that is far weaker than true magic. Baalis literally worship demons, it make then very feared since even the weakest demon, is completely immune to "mind affecting spells" from vampires and very resistant to powers. An 3rd gen Ventrue can dominate almost all other vampires in the world, but can't dominate the weakest demon.
The idea of someone becoming an vampire and actually becoming weaker, probably only happened on WoD setting. To Tremere clan. The story writer needed to kill their avatar(note that no curse in the world can kill an avatar on MtA) otherwise they will be ridiculous OP compared to the rest of vampires. And even with their Blood sorcery that is linear magic wannabe discipline, they are very feared. But Sorcerers doesn't need to be 7th gen- to use 6 dot of linear magic. Tremere vampires, needs it. So even an non weakened magician has an bigger potential without becoming an vampire. An exception is Abomination, but even abominations, has an awful hard time and IMO if an Abomination maintain itself as an pure werewolf, he will be stronger. Due the lack of vampire weakness and "mental problems", because lets be honest, be an Abomination is one of the worst fates that someone can have on WoD.
So yes, IMO VtR is better than VtM exactly because the vampirism has no real "origins", is a mysterious condition. And you are not hardcaped to your sirer
Ammar, Generation is also an reason to why vampires are far weaker than other supernaturals. Tremere, is one of the most feared clans and ... They are just mages wannabes that uses Thaumaturgy as an limitation of linear magic that is far weaker than true magic. Baalis literally worship demons, it make then very feared since even the weakest demon, is completely immune to "mind affecting spells" from vampires and very resistant to powers. An 3rd gen Ventrue can dominate almost all other vampires in the world, but can't dominate the weakest demon.
The idea of someone becoming an vampire and actually becoming weaker, probably only happened on WoD setting. To Tremere clan. The story writer needed to kill their avatar(note that no curse in the world can kill an avatar on MtA) otherwise they will be ridiculous OP compared to the rest of vampires. And even with their Blood sorcery that is linear magic wannabe discipline, they are very feared. But Sorcerers doesn't need to be 7th gen- to use 6 dot of linear magic. Tremere vampires, needs it. So even an non weakened magician has an bigger potential without becoming an vampire. An exception is Abomination, but even abominations, has an awful hard time and IMO if an Abomination maintain itself as an pure werewolf, he will be stronger. Due the lack of vampire weakness and "mental problems", because lets be honest, be an Abomination is one of the worst fates that someone can have on WoD.
So yes, IMO VtR is better than VtM exactly because the vampirism has no real "origins", is a mysterious condition. And you are not hardcaped to your sirer
I disagree that generation is the reason vampires are relatively weak when compared to mages or werewolves. It's straight up that the powers themself that are weaker than equivalent level powers mages have. Werewolves just have that crazy crinos form with aggravated damage claws, and they can all dump rage into extra actions and can hop into the spirit world (Umbra) at will, but most of their gifts aren't super powered. Mages with just 2-3 dots in a sphere can get away with stuff that a vampire might need 6 or more dots in a discipline to achieve. The mage spheres were also insanely flexible and can do damn near anything, whereas disciplines are only one or 2 well defined powers.
I disagree that generation is the reason vampires are relatively weak when compared to mages or werewolves. It's straight up that the powers themself that are weaker than equivalent level powers mages have. Werewolves just have that crazy crinos form with aggravated damage claws, and they can all dump rage into extra actions and can hop into the spirit world (Umbra) at will, but most of their gifts aren't super powered. Mages with just 2-3 dots in a sphere can get away with stuff that a vampire might need 6 or more dots in a discipline to achieve. The mage spheres were also insanely flexible and can do damn near anything, whereas disciplines are only one or 2 well defined powers.
Adept mage(3 dots) can do more than 7- gen vampires at peak of his capabilities can. This on VtM, on VtR is different.
If you put an Werewolf/Mage of 40 years old against an vampire of equally age, the werewolf will probably win on VtR. But if you pick the same WW against an vampire of 800 years old, he will probably have a lot of blood potency and access to more powerful disciplines. For example, A Child from the Stones can create an gargoyle servant that will never rebels against you.
Some disciplines on VtR wodcodex.com/wiki/Disciplines,_All_(1st_Edition)
And the best mechanic of blood potency is that to have a lot of power, it comes with a lot of cost. Much more sun damage and feed restrictions for eg, be restricted to only feed on supernatural is a huge burden. On VtM, great power comes without great problems(except neonates/ancilas wanting to diablere you)
Depending on how your made your vampire, you can easily levitate while conjure an rifle with silver ammo to kill the WW in few turns. "but they can go in umbra and attack", an 800 yo vampire probably has contacts with someone that can protect himself with wards, if he doesn't know how to make it. I honestly don't know why VtR din't get the same attention of VtM.
I disagree that generation is the reason vampires are relatively weak when compared to mages or werewolves. It's straight up that the powers themself that are weaker than equivalent level powers mages have. Werewolves just have that crazy crinos form with aggravated damage claws, and they can all dump rage into extra actions and can hop into the spirit world (Umbra) at will, but most of their gifts aren't super powered. Mages with just 2-3 dots in a sphere can get away with stuff that a vampire might need 6 or more dots in a discipline to achieve. The mage spheres were also insanely flexible and can do damn near anything, whereas disciplines are only one or 2 well defined powers.
Adept mage(3 dots) can do more than 7- gen vampires at peak of his capabilities can. This on VtM, on VtR is different.
If you put an Werewolf/Mage of 40 years old against an vampire of equally age, the werewolf will probably win on VtR. But if you pick the same WW against an vampire of 800 years old, he will probably have a lot of blood potency and access to more powerful disciplines. For example, A Child from the Stones can create an gargoyle servant that will never rebels against you.
Some disciplines on VtR wodcodex.com/wiki/Disciplines,_All_(1st_Edition)
And the best mechanic of blood potency is that to have a lot of power, it comes with a lot of cost. Much more sun damage and feed restrictions for eg, be restricted to only feed on supernatural is a huge burden. On VtM, great power comes without great problems(except neonates/ancilas wanting to diablere you)
Depending on how your made your vampire, you can easily levitate while conjure an rifle with silver ammo to kill the WW in few turns. "but they can go in umbra and attack", an 800 yo vampire probably has contacts with someone that can protect himself with wards, if he doesn't know how to make it. I honestly don't know why VtR din't get the same attention of VtM.
Ya, that's just because they gave them such powerful stuff for such a small investment, not because of generational limits. There's still a huge variety of things a vampire can do with a limit of 5 dots that mages can be weak against. Obfuscate is great. A mage might be able to pierce it with high enough mind or correspondence, but they'd need to have that sphere higher than the obfuscate score of the vampire. This is really more of a quirk of powers and what they're supposed specialties are. Werewolves are supposed to be killing machines, but could have great difficulty dealing with a vampire with presence or dominate 5. Obfuscate can really mess with them. Even within the limits of 5 dots, a vampire with potence, celerity and fortitude at 5 could go toe toe with most werewolves, and could run them out of extra actions, since werewolves have at most 10 rage points.
DrHappyAngry, other problem is the blood spend / turn.
An high gen Lasombra will for eg take 3 turns to use 5 dot Obtenebration(Tenebrous Form - costs 3 blood), i believe that the charname of vtmb1 is low gen(8th), not only due blood pool but due the fact that he can spend blood pretty quickly.
DrHappyAngry, other problem is the blood spend / turn.
An high gen Lasombra will for eg take 3 turns to use 5 dot Obtenebration(Tenebrous Form - costs 3 blood), i believe that the charname of vtmb1 is low gen(8th), not only due blood pool but due the fact that he can spend blood pretty quickly.
Anyway, i still think that VtR is underrated.
Not all powers had that and some powers were specifically exceptions to it, and stated you could spend the multiple blood points to activate the power in a single turn. Quite a few powers were just always on, like potence.
V5 rules are much different, though. You don't track a blood pool, you track a hunger pool, so that gets around some of it. Activating a power uses a rouse check, a single die roll difficulty 6, if it fails you take a point of hunger, if it succeeds you don't get any hunger, either way the power succeeds, although in the case of a botch it could succeed in a horrible way.
Agreed
I suppose it is a proof of concept, because the actors just stay quiet when you finish talking to them.
the controls seem a little skyrim style (map bar, only one discipline/attack at a time that you have to switch and select, no healthbars, jump and sprint, enemies that move to your blindspot while fighting, 1p and 3rd person view....)
At least there are some good vibes there: In the UI you can see markers for the masquerade, to lure bystanders , lockpicking, a quest with multiple options, fully dubbed...
Agreed
I suppose it is a proof of concept, because the actors just stay quiet when you finish talking to them.
the controls seem a little skyrim style (map bar, only one discipline/attack at a time that you have to switch and select, no healthbars, jump and sprint, enemies that move to your blindspot while fighting, 1p and 3rd person view....)
At least there are some good vibes there: In the UI you can see markers for the masquerade, to lure bystanders , lockpicking, a quest with multiple options, fully dubbed...
Ya, it definitely seemed a bit rough in spots, but they've got almost a year to go. Like how many times did they kill the same 2 or 3 models in that demo. Hopefully you can map disciplines to tons of keys in the PC version.
It still seems weird to see pioneer square without the tons of homeless and crazy people everywhere, there were far too many normals on the street, in the video. Even well before the current disparity that's hit Seattle in the last 10 years, there were tons of homeless ever present there.
moving the topic from "is generation an good mechanic" to the VtMB 2 gameplay. I hated that the game forces on melee with poor melee animations. The firearms mechanics aren't bad, you can see how shotgun "cycles", is very well made. Unfortunately, firearms looks like "temporary weapons" and this makes no sense. I picked this $500 pistol, ran out of ammo and just trowed away, instead of try sell it...
I don't know why gaming in general is so obsessed by melee. What allowed humans to fight larger and tougher creatures was ranged weapons, javelins, bows, etc and even against other humans, you can see a lot of commoners with just longbows defeating the French nobility with far better equipment, cavalry, and numbers on Battle of Agincourt and even on Asia, Oda Nobunaga was successful by his extensive use of firearms. I wish that as a Tremere, i can spend 24/7 of time using mostly Thaumaturgy/Blood Sorcery.
Vampyr i din't liked much by the excessive melee focus. is not an bad game, but IMO is far worse than vtmb1.
The footage has a lot of potential. I agree that the controller look speed seemed AWFUL. The combat also looks very 1-note so far. These are the kinds of things that can be improved over the next year, though.
The world looks beautiful. I like the different ways to deal with things, too. Environmental problem solving also looks good.
Vampyr i din't liked much by the excessive melee focus. is not an bad game, but IMO is far worse than vtmb1.
Yeah, you´ve got firearms but you always fight in close quarters. Enemies appear near you or you have to fight them in small rooms or walled spaces, all the time with enemies at 2 m or less from you. No ofuscate, no sniping... you are a vampire, for christ sake!
Well, It is better than Redemption, at least at character interaction, the victorian atmosphere and world-building...
I didn't more than 3-4 hours into Vampyr, but I've finished Redemption more than once. Granted that was back in the day when it first came out, and the graphics were awesome for back then. Hah, I remember you had to take an ini file from the soldier of fortune installer, and replace the installer on the CDs to make it work on win2k. Lock and target combat also drives me insane. I actually got most of the way through a run of redemption a few months ago, but got bored in New York, since so many areas were same-ish dungeon crawls.
I didn't more than 3-4 hours into Vampyr, but I've finished Redemption more than once. Granted that was back in the day when it first came out, and the graphics were awesome for back then. Hah, I remember you had to take an ini file from the soldier of fortune installer, and replace the installer on the CDs to make it work on win2k. Lock and target combat also drives me insane. I actually got most of the way through a run of redemption a few months ago, but got bored in New York, since so many areas were same-ish dungeon crawls.
I remember liking Redemption a lot. I was probably a lot less refined in my gaming choices then, and I dont remember a LOT about the game - but the concept was very cool to me at the time. I liked starting in the middle ages and ending up in the modern day. Felt fresh
Probably nostalgia talking, but I thought it was a good game...
I didn't more than 3-4 hours into Vampyr, but I've finished Redemption more than once. Granted that was back in the day when it first came out, and the graphics were awesome for back then. Hah, I remember you had to take an ini file from the soldier of fortune installer, and replace the installer on the CDs to make it work on win2k. Lock and target combat also drives me insane. I actually got most of the way through a run of redemption a few months ago, but got bored in New York, since so many areas were same-ish dungeon crawls.
I remember liking Redemption a lot. I was probably a lot less refined in my gaming choices then, and I dont remember a LOT about the game - but the concept was very cool to me at the time. I liked starting in the middle ages and ending up in the modern day. Felt fresh
Probably nostalgia talking, but I thought it was a good game...
When it came out, it's graphics were crazy good, especially since it wasn't a shooter, so you could deal with less than 30 fps. Graphically it holds up so much better than most games released back then. The original Deus Ex is about the only game from that era I can still play. I just get bored with repetitive dungeon crawling. So many of the areas were same-ish kill everything in your path dungeon crawls in that game. This one's Tzimesce, this one's Setite, this one's New York Sewers, etc. Each area played the same, just with a minor ability usage of enemies in most areas.
Yes! and that horrible AI that burn all the blood points in 2secs and made all your party go bloodfrenzy, so you have to micromanage every-single-move during a looooong looooong and repetitive massive dungeon.
Yeah, I had good times with that game, and It was very good for its time, but also was a pain to play. Reminds me of the unmodded Morrowind, that kind of feel. Good game, but I do not think it aged well.
Yes! and that horrible AI that burn all the blood points in 2secs and made all your party go bloodfrenzy, so you have to micromanage every-single-move during a looooong looooong and repetitive massive dungeon.
Yeah, I had good times with that game, and It was very good for its time, but also was a pain to play. Reminds me of the unmodded Morrowind, that kind of feel. Good game, but I do not think it aged well.
The blood theft spell make it sort of tolerable, but I think there was only 1 copy of it.
Yes! and that horrible AI that burn all the blood points in 2secs and made all your party go bloodfrenzy, so you have to micromanage every-single-move during a looooong looooong and repetitive massive dungeon.
Yeah, I had good times with that game, and It was very good for its time, but also was a pain to play. Reminds me of the unmodded Morrowind, that kind of feel. Good game, but I do not think it aged well.
The blood theft spell make it sort of tolerable, but I think there was only 1 copy of it.
I think you just had to learn thaumaturgy, which was based off your intelligence to be able to learn it. There was that sweet sword that drained blood and did aggravated damage.
It's a bit sad, but the game didn't even feature a pause button when it first came out. That's why it's mapped to the weird ass pause/break key.
Yes! and that horrible AI that burn all the blood points in 2secs and made all your party go bloodfrenzy, so you have to micromanage every-single-move during a looooong looooong and repetitive massive dungeon.
Yeah, I had good times with that game, and It was very good for its time, but also was a pain to play. Reminds me of the unmodded Morrowind, that kind of feel. Good game, but I do not think it aged well.
The blood theft spell make it sort of tolerable, but I think there was only 1 copy of it.
I think you just had to learn thaumaturgy, which was based off your intelligence to be able to learn it. There was that sweet sword that drained blood and did aggravated damage.
It's a bit sad, but the game didn't even feature a pause button when it first came out. That's why it's mapped to the weird ass pause/break key.
I remember NONE of this stuff. I'm definitely working on nostalgia for the game at this point.
I did recently play some VtMB1. Couldnt get very far. I enjoy some of what the game had to offer, but it didnt really grab me - not because the game we bad per se, it's just a bit dated and I have no real attachment to it.
So, a 2019 remake with fewer options than a game from the 2004. But we will have 3 outfits with the deluxe or premade edition (that you will only see in cinematics?) Yay?
So, a 2019 remake with fewer options than a game from the 2004. But we will have 3 outfits with the deluxe or premade edition (that you will only see in cinematics?) Yay?
I don't really feel strongly about the perspective one way or the other. I'm sort of liking the Deus Exish vibe, so first person fits. It does make it easier to look around your environment for air vents and alternate paths, so I can see why they'd go with it.. BTW, have I mentioned that Seattle is the cyber punk dystopia the 1980s promised us
I wish LASOMBRA clan. Play Antitribu as a lasombra was an unique experience. Other thing that can be interesting is be able to play as an Kuei Jin(Eastern Vampire, not limited by Generation with his own rulebooks and using a lot of eastern concepts like dharma instead of humanity)
I wish LASOMBRA clan. Play Antitribu as a lasombra was an unique experience. Other thing that can be interesting is be able to play as an Kuei Jin(Eastern Vampire, not limited by Generation with his own rulebooks and using a lot of eastern concepts like dharma instead of humanity)
I never cared much for the KoE and only played one once. But it was just as hard to get your Dharma and age up enough to be able to have abilities over 5 points. The generational limits are just ways to keep the power level gated to an acceptable level, just like Dharma/age. The default chronicle was supposed to be for neonate characters that were at the bottom of the totem pole, where they're still understandable by humans. Ancient powerful beings that have lived through centuries of change, are extremely difficult to role play as. There were add on books for storytellers that wanted to run elders games, but they weren't the default experience.
I do really hope the put Lasombra in as DLC, especially since they're supposed to join the Camarilla in the near future.
I wish LASOMBRA clan. Play Antitribu as a lasombra was an unique experience. Other thing that can be interesting is be able to play as an Kuei Jin(Eastern Vampire, not limited by Generation with his own rulebooks and using a lot of eastern concepts like dharma instead of humanity)
I never cared much for the KoE and only played one once. But it was just as hard to get your Dharma and age up enough to be able to have abilities over 5 points. The generational limits are just ways to keep the power level gated to an acceptable level, just like Dharma/age. The default chronicle was supposed to be for neonate characters that were at the bottom of the totem pole, where they're still understandable by humans. Ancient powerful beings that have lived through centuries of change, are extremely difficult to role play as. There were add on books for storytellers that wanted to run elders games, but they weren't the default experience.
I do really hope the put Lasombra in as DLC, especially since they're supposed to join the Camarilla in the near future.
Well, with generation rules, technically an 3rd gen vampire can walk from topor, mass sire because he is bored an go sleep again. Instead of vampires being tied to age, what he drinks, his experiences, etc he is hard caped by his sire. In fact, older vampires just stopping siring from centuries is something that doesn't makes much sense, but honestly the idea of caine itself doesn't makes much sense, i mean "i got cursed by god and due this, i got superpowers, immortality, godlike powers, and will sire few ones and then do nothing until the end of times" , myths about flood IMO makes me very hard to fell connected to the metaplot that i know that a lot of people like. but for me is very immersion breaking due the lack of logic and consistency.
Anyway, i believe that an lasombra ancient vampire appears briefly on the first game (spoilers obviously)
On ending depending the alliance, this scene
And play the first game with one(Antitribu) was an amazing experience. I clearly recommend. Shadow tentacles and dark metamorphosis with firearms is a insane deadly combo.
Comments
It really makes me think of how the last couple of Deus Ex games played, which is good IMHO. While the last Deus Ex was kind of weak, it was more because of how few hubs and locations there were, not so much the game play.
It's weird seeing that and hearing them talk about "The Jungle," which was the major homeless encampment in Seattle for a long time, but was cleared out a few years ago. I'm sure there's people back in there already. It's a little weird thinking that scene with the character chasing the nosferatu and killing people, is murdering homeless in The Jungle, though. I also clearly recognized Pioneer Square. You can buy crack a block away from the spot I saw in the video.
Think about how it works. As a vampire you reach a cap where you will never become as powerful as your sire. Where you will always be at the mercy of vampires of lower generation. The temptation to commit diablerie is extremely high.
As a sire/elder you can never your progeny, as the only way for them to reach even greater power is through you. You can't even easily sire more as you grow older, because as a fledgling with relatively low generation you are sort of a walking target.
And the in-lore history of vampirism reflects this, with the younger vampire overthrowing their (justifiably so) paranoid elders again and again. It starts back when the 2nd generation was overthrown to the anarch revolt and to present days.
The game stat of "generation" is the underpinning of the curse of Caine.
In terms of gameplay, I don't think it is much of an issue. First off, you need a lot of playtime to even get generation-capped in power. There are extremely potent workaround to temporarily lower your generation, etc.
Still, the latest VtM version improves it by adding a version of blood potency in addition tol generation, where your blood potency increases with age within bounds given by your generation. So a old 13th generation vampire could match a fledgling 6th generation vampire, but that is the outer limit. And with experience the 6th generation fledgling will start quickly outmatching the older 13th generation vampire. In gameplay terms the 6th generation vampire has minimum blood potency of 3 to a maximum of 8, while the 13th generation vampire starts at 1 and can go up to 3 (until he decreases his generation by diablerie).
This on WoD, but lets be honest. Myths of vampirism got popularized by slavic folklore and should be more "pagan" than christian IMO, monotheism is very recent if you look to human history. And honestly, an literal interpretation of bible breaks my immersion of disbelief. The myth of everyone on humanity being punished by an 100% just and omnipotent but at the same time that has anger and other human emotions and despite being omnipotent sacrifices himself to himself to forgive the humanity for sins that our ancestors commited, then to clear the planet from Evil, instead of just killing all sinners, make an guy pick all types of animals, from Penguins to Polar bears and tons of insect species and put in a small ship, then re populate the planet and generate all human diversity, is something that breaks my suspension of disbelief.
This not mentioning all contradictions that it generates with Kuei Jins, Werewolves, etc; that have non christian lores. his not mentioning make Set, an God that is far more ancient than any monotheistic religion into just another vampire.
As for "generation cap", that is an bad idea. An 8th gen Tremere could live forever, drink the blood of the strongest magicians, spend decades studing, training, etc; the best way to him to reach advanced disciplines, is diablere or pick an blood of an elder, uses it to sire an fledgeling and diablere the fledgeling. he will lower his gen to elder + 1. The concept of Generation has so many exploits that i don't even knwo where to start listening. First, why allow higher gen vampires to sire if they fear that thin blooded will bring the end of times? Create an rule that only the blood of 4/5/6 vampires can be used to sire and if you are a 7th gen vampire, you drink the blood, then put the low gen blood into the victim.
Why nobody uses that exploit? Is a mechanic that makes no sense. If i an an Tremere elder, i will only allow my sirers to sire with my blood to reduce the temptation of diablere, maintain my clan stronger than another clans, etc;
And some times the rule makes no sense. The ritual trying to replicate "gods curse" from tremere, everyone used the same vampiric blood, but Tremere got 4th gen, Goratrix 5 and some others 6/7, using the same blood. Why???? How this is possible?
VtR kinda solved this problems.
Sadly, doesn't have interesting clans politics and memorable clans...
The preference for slavic folklore is certainly your prerogative
But for the rest - blood has to be transferred directly from the sire, you can't put it in bottle and use it to turn mortals into vampire later on. Except if you are Goratrix who still had awakened magic at that time, which vampires no longer have. BTW in the clan history they all started at the same generation, but had different success in diablerie.
As for not allowing your childer to sire: that has been tried, but this is another consistent part of the setting. Vampires want to sire. It is the one thing that can alleviate their loneliness for a time. It is the closest thing to procreation they have.
And they want the direct connection that siring brings.
One of the better things in the lore is that most of those things have actually been tried before. I.e. the 2nd generation did try to forbid siring to the the 3rd. And where are they now?
Finally, if you want to avoid the literal Adam and Eve, you can use the Demon: The Fallen approach. All creation myths & evolution were all true at the same time when reality had many layers. The multiple layer shattering was part of the Fall.
The idea of someone becoming an vampire and actually becoming weaker, probably only happened on WoD setting. To Tremere clan. The story writer needed to kill their avatar(note that no curse in the world can kill an avatar on MtA) otherwise they will be ridiculous OP compared to the rest of vampires. And even with their Blood sorcery that is linear magic wannabe discipline, they are very feared. But Sorcerers doesn't need to be 7th gen- to use 6 dot of linear magic. Tremere vampires, needs it. So even an non weakened magician has an bigger potential without becoming an vampire. An exception is Abomination, but even abominations, has an awful hard time and IMO if an Abomination maintain itself as an pure werewolf, he will be stronger. Due the lack of vampire weakness and "mental problems", because lets be honest, be an Abomination is one of the worst fates that someone can have on WoD.
So yes, IMO VtR is better than VtM exactly because the vampirism has no real "origins", is a mysterious condition. And you are not hardcaped to your sirer
I disagree that generation is the reason vampires are relatively weak when compared to mages or werewolves. It's straight up that the powers themself that are weaker than equivalent level powers mages have. Werewolves just have that crazy crinos form with aggravated damage claws, and they can all dump rage into extra actions and can hop into the spirit world (Umbra) at will, but most of their gifts aren't super powered. Mages with just 2-3 dots in a sphere can get away with stuff that a vampire might need 6 or more dots in a discipline to achieve. The mage spheres were also insanely flexible and can do damn near anything, whereas disciplines are only one or 2 well defined powers.
Adept mage(3 dots) can do more than 7- gen vampires at peak of his capabilities can. This on VtM, on VtR is different.
If you put an Werewolf/Mage of 40 years old against an vampire of equally age, the werewolf will probably win on VtR. But if you pick the same WW against an vampire of 800 years old, he will probably have a lot of blood potency and access to more powerful disciplines. For example, A Child from the Stones can create an gargoyle servant that will never rebels against you.
Some disciplines on VtR
wodcodex.com/wiki/Disciplines,_All_(1st_Edition)
And the best mechanic of blood potency is that to have a lot of power, it comes with a lot of cost. Much more sun damage and feed restrictions for eg, be restricted to only feed on supernatural is a huge burden. On VtM, great power comes without great problems(except neonates/ancilas wanting to diablere you)
http://wodpedia.wikidot.com/blood-potency
Depending on how your made your vampire, you can easily levitate while conjure an rifle with silver ammo to kill the WW in few turns. "but they can go in umbra and attack", an 800 yo vampire probably has contacts with someone that can protect himself with wards, if he doesn't know how to make it. I honestly don't know why VtR din't get the same attention of VtM.
Ya, that's just because they gave them such powerful stuff for such a small investment, not because of generational limits. There's still a huge variety of things a vampire can do with a limit of 5 dots that mages can be weak against. Obfuscate is great. A mage might be able to pierce it with high enough mind or correspondence, but they'd need to have that sphere higher than the obfuscate score of the vampire. This is really more of a quirk of powers and what they're supposed specialties are. Werewolves are supposed to be killing machines, but could have great difficulty dealing with a vampire with presence or dominate 5. Obfuscate can really mess with them. Even within the limits of 5 dots, a vampire with potence, celerity and fortitude at 5 could go toe toe with most werewolves, and could run them out of extra actions, since werewolves have at most 10 rage points.
An high gen Lasombra will for eg take 3 turns to use 5 dot Obtenebration(Tenebrous Form - costs 3 blood), i believe that the charname of vtmb1 is low gen(8th), not only due blood pool but due the fact that he can spend blood pretty quickly.
Anyway, i still think that VtR is underrated.
Not all powers had that and some powers were specifically exceptions to it, and stated you could spend the multiple blood points to activate the power in a single turn. Quite a few powers were just always on, like potence.
V5 rules are much different, though. You don't track a blood pool, you track a hunger pool, so that gets around some of it. Activating a power uses a rouse check, a single die roll difficulty 6, if it fails you take a point of hunger, if it succeeds you don't get any hunger, either way the power succeeds, although in the case of a botch it could succeed in a horrible way.
I just see how clunkily they turn and look around, and think why would anyone want to play this with a controller?
I suppose it is a proof of concept, because the actors just stay quiet when you finish talking to them.
the controls seem a little skyrim style (map bar, only one discipline/attack at a time that you have to switch and select, no healthbars, jump and sprint, enemies that move to your blindspot while fighting, 1p and 3rd person view....)
At least there are some good vibes there: In the UI you can see markers for the masquerade, to lure bystanders , lockpicking, a quest with multiple options, fully dubbed...
Ya, it definitely seemed a bit rough in spots, but they've got almost a year to go. Like how many times did they kill the same 2 or 3 models in that demo. Hopefully you can map disciplines to tons of keys in the PC version.
It still seems weird to see pioneer square without the tons of homeless and crazy people everywhere, there were far too many normals on the street, in the video. Even well before the current disparity that's hit Seattle in the last 10 years, there were tons of homeless ever present there.
*Edit, btw this location in the game
Is right here, in real life
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pioneer+Square,+Seattle,+WA+98104/@47.6021308,-122.3360158,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x54906aa4ebc58a73:0x387ef3dcb4e389c!2sPioneer+Square,+Seattle,+WA+98104!3b1!8m2!3d47.6015184!4d-122.3342975!3m4!1s0x54906abaae2e4f17:0x3cd54e39fffbc548!8m2!3d47.6020426!4d-122.3339166
The actual park there, they got dead on. Obviously those street view pics were from years ago when they were tearing up the street.
I don't know why gaming in general is so obsessed by melee. What allowed humans to fight larger and tougher creatures was ranged weapons, javelins, bows, etc and even against other humans, you can see a lot of commoners with just longbows defeating the French nobility with far better equipment, cavalry, and numbers on Battle of Agincourt and even on Asia, Oda Nobunaga was successful by his extensive use of firearms. I wish that as a Tremere, i can spend 24/7 of time using mostly Thaumaturgy/Blood Sorcery.
Vampyr i din't liked much by the excessive melee focus. is not an bad game, but IMO is far worse than vtmb1.
The world looks beautiful. I like the different ways to deal with things, too. Environmental problem solving also looks good.
Yeah, you´ve got firearms but you always fight in close quarters. Enemies appear near you or you have to fight them in small rooms or walled spaces, all the time with enemies at 2 m or less from you. No ofuscate, no sniping... you are a vampire, for christ sake!
Well, It is better than Redemption, at least at character interaction, the victorian atmosphere and world-building...
I remember liking Redemption a lot. I was probably a lot less refined in my gaming choices then, and I dont remember a LOT about the game - but the concept was very cool to me at the time. I liked starting in the middle ages and ending up in the modern day. Felt fresh
Probably nostalgia talking, but I thought it was a good game...
When it came out, it's graphics were crazy good, especially since it wasn't a shooter, so you could deal with less than 30 fps. Graphically it holds up so much better than most games released back then. The original Deus Ex is about the only game from that era I can still play. I just get bored with repetitive dungeon crawling. So many of the areas were same-ish kill everything in your path dungeon crawls in that game. This one's Tzimesce, this one's Setite, this one's New York Sewers, etc. Each area played the same, just with a minor ability usage of enemies in most areas.
Yeah, I had good times with that game, and It was very good for its time, but also was a pain to play. Reminds me of the unmodded Morrowind, that kind of feel. Good game, but I do not think it aged well.
The blood theft spell make it sort of tolerable, but I think there was only 1 copy of it.
I think you just had to learn thaumaturgy, which was based off your intelligence to be able to learn it. There was that sweet sword that drained blood and did aggravated damage.
It's a bit sad, but the game didn't even feature a pause button when it first came out. That's why it's mapped to the weird ass pause/break key.
I remember NONE of this stuff. I'm definitely working on nostalgia for the game at this point.
I did recently play some VtMB1. Couldnt get very far. I enjoy some of what the game had to offer, but it didnt really grab me - not because the game we bad per se, it's just a bit dated and I have no real attachment to it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vtm_bloodlines/status/1108948381127204865
So, a 2019 remake with fewer options than a game from the 2004. But we will have 3 outfits with the deluxe or premade edition (that you will only see in cinematics?) Yay?
I don't really feel strongly about the perspective one way or the other. I'm sort of liking the Deus Exish vibe, so first person fits. It does make it easier to look around your environment for air vents and alternate paths, so I can see why they'd go with it.. BTW, have I mentioned that Seattle is the cyber punk dystopia the 1980s promised us
https://www.gamereactor.eu/dialogue-choices-in-bloodlines-2-organic-and-realistic/
Nice, any clans that get added will be free DLC. Backgrounds and visual customization to the character are confirmed.
VV by Ulbandi Cosplay
I never cared much for the KoE and only played one once. But it was just as hard to get your Dharma and age up enough to be able to have abilities over 5 points. The generational limits are just ways to keep the power level gated to an acceptable level, just like Dharma/age. The default chronicle was supposed to be for neonate characters that were at the bottom of the totem pole, where they're still understandable by humans. Ancient powerful beings that have lived through centuries of change, are extremely difficult to role play as. There were add on books for storytellers that wanted to run elders games, but they weren't the default experience.
I do really hope the put Lasombra in as DLC, especially since they're supposed to join the Camarilla in the near future.
Well, with generation rules, technically an 3rd gen vampire can walk from topor, mass sire because he is bored an go sleep again. Instead of vampires being tied to age, what he drinks, his experiences, etc he is hard caped by his sire. In fact, older vampires just stopping siring from centuries is something that doesn't makes much sense, but honestly the idea of caine itself doesn't makes much sense, i mean "i got cursed by god and due this, i got superpowers, immortality, godlike powers, and will sire few ones and then do nothing until the end of times" , myths about flood IMO makes me very hard to fell connected to the metaplot that i know that a lot of people like. but for me is very immersion breaking due the lack of logic and consistency.
Anyway, i believe that an lasombra ancient vampire appears briefly on the first game (spoilers obviously)
And play the first game with one(Antitribu) was an amazing experience. I clearly recommend. Shadow tentacles and dark metamorphosis with firearms is a insane deadly combo.