Thematically: Skull trap, glyph of warding and delayed blast fireball
David77
Member Posts: 30
I have a quesion regarding the limited use of thieves traps in dnd and the use of those magical 'acting as traps' spells mentioned above.
Thematically should spell traps be used in unlimited ammounts, or last an umlimited time? Whats dnd equivalent, and how do they compare to thieves traps?
Thieves traps can tell hostile from not. Spell traps cannot. Spell traps have no limit. Thieves yes. Moddable? Who is better?
Thank you
Thematically should spell traps be used in unlimited ammounts, or last an umlimited time? Whats dnd equivalent, and how do they compare to thieves traps?
Thieves traps can tell hostile from not. Spell traps cannot. Spell traps have no limit. Thieves yes. Moddable? Who is better?
Thank you
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Comments
Most of the mods are on the level of "convert arrows +1 to arrows +2." So don't expect much. When it comes to thieves, here is the straight answer: Set Traps is not a thief ability in the standard AD&D rules. It is not in the Player's Handbook. I'm not sure which later optional supplement brought this idea, or maybe it was even for the computer games alone. PnP thieves have many other useful skills instead, but climbing rope, detecting noise and reading languages would not be very useful in these games. As for the trap-type spells, there are more of them in PnP than you mentioned, e.g. the Symbol spell contains options for fear, pain, death etc.; there is Wyvern Watch and others.
But to talk about what's actually in: Skull Trap is not in the Handbook. It was added, I believe, in Spells&Magic, so it's an obscure bit of magic, and, of course, off limits not only to illusionists but also to enchanters (many specializing wizards in the real thing have at least two opposition schools, which is one of the reasons to play a regular mage there). Glyph of Warding is standard and much more flexible but several can't be cast in the same area, plus a sizeable trap takes a material component that costs 2000+ gp (diamond dust, assuming you can even find that). Delayed Blast Fireball has maximum delay of 5 rounds, besides, it is a 7th level spell, and you don't meet 14th level wizards on every corner in PnP the way you do in Shadows of Amn. And by the time your own wizard is 14th level, he has probably graduated from dungeon-crawling to politics, diplomacy and extraplanar quests. On the other hand, illusions are cheap and effective for fooling and scaring. Snare is a 1st level wizard spell that only takes basic rope, and it can be used to trip people up, even an Elminster. A thief or anybody clever would be able to do the same and more with just ordinary stuff lying underfoot. Simply use your head and play with an appreciative Dungeon Master.
The moral of all this is, the IE adaptations are very primitive and there is no real multiplayer to speak of. These are essentially single-player games, and everything you mod or change is only going to affect your machine and you. There is no higher logic to draw on here, because there is no wider company, no exchange of ideas and no friends by your side. Knock yourself out. If you feel that thieves should get 10 more uses of snares a day, then yes, it can be done. Ask around how. And the real moral is to find some real people in the real world to play the real game, if you can, and then you won't even think back on these digital marvels.
So to your questions: I meant for the game itself, serving itself. That is if something works better for the single played game that is better. However it seems many great game balancing ideas come from DND.
Thieves in Baldur's Gate have their traps going for them when considering them alongside high powered mages and fighty fighters.
Hearing that in DND delayed blast fireball has a limited resource of 5 rounds time to blow, and other traps take money or other limited resources sounds like a good balancer - as currently a mage can repeatedly rest (although it might be intended to play the game with some limits on time for roleplaying). Few other resources would maybe work in baldurs gate (money is pretty worthless) maybe resources for spells is a good future game idea at Beamdog
I glean from DND experience that a thief has little going for it in baldurs gate in combat so should always be better than a mage in setting traps maybe. So for example skull trap, glyphs of warding, skull traps, might be limited to 8 hours or something.
All this is basically an interest in DND and what can work in the current game balance/unbalance using mods or tweaks.
Hope addressed a little of what you asked. So good to hear people sharing.
Thanks.
The limit on the number of traps in a given area is as arbitrary as the summon limit. Extending that limit to the spell-based traps is certainly doable but would also impose the restriction of only using them when enemies are not in sight.
What is that limit on traps? And why would it be restricted?
Also it's possible to use 0-speed projectiles as alternatives to traps. They do damage to whoever roams into them the whole time they remain but, as has been said recently, they are not retained in saves. Which balances them out to a degree. They could activate a Zone of clear air on triggering, too, to be one-shot. The only problem is that the zone effect is not location-specific, so all the other traps of this type would go too. Then again, that can be seen as a restraining factor as well. Set traps of different kinds or set ones of the same kind in different places but be prepared that only one will work. Actually, even a standard Skull Trap or Glyph could include a Zone on casting. One skull or one glyph at a time. That's a nerfing right there.
To @David77 : Thieves also have backstabbing. That's powerful. And about other balancing factors - the gold glut is a problem, you are right. Here is a one mod that tried to fix that, even if without much subtlety: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/62201/the-1000-the-restless-edition I was going to make something with more role-playing but I don't know if I ever will get to it. As for resting all the time, it would be easy to make a mod that only allowed resting, say, every 24 hours. It's more of a question how parties would proceed if they have used up their rest limit, the spells and healing are out and they are still in a dungeon they can't walk out of. In pen-and-paper they could hope to persevere through their wits or try to find or make a way around enemies, but in these games we are often stuck with linear challenges.
Another possibility for rest would be to have rest points. Resting once spends a point, and points trickle back at the rate of 1 every 24 or 12 hours. The maximum number of points is 3. This way players would think twice before resting in dungeons unless they really need to but would be able to make good use of the time spent walking around in cities, traveling between areas and so on. This is possible too.