Xzar's and Montaron's Parting Threats
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
Heya, I decided to start a run of original GoG unmodded Baldur's Gate today, on a nostalgic impulse. I just played to Nashkel with the "canon" starting party of Jaheira, Khalid, Montaron, Xzar, and Imoen. I'm playing a half elf fighter-cleric. There's a lot I really like about the original game over the EE's, (Jaheira's Entangle spell is party friendly!) but that's another topic, maybe.
I had kept the evil duo with me much longer than I usually would, roleplaying that my wise lawful good paladinesque fighter-cleric would think that they were needed. Xzar's Larloch's Minor Drains had helped us on several occasions against very dangerous enemies, as had Monty's crossbow. ("Missile Weapons" proficiency gives flexibility for crossbows and darts, not just slings, yay BG1 weapon proficiencies!)
Because of several completed quests, our reputation was pretty high. I noticed that the character dialogues seem to trigger much more often in original BG1. I had already gotten Khalid's (paraphrasing) "I don't mean to be a bother, but... umm...could you be less... I don't know... um.... evil" three times. Once was to Xzar, where he got "Will you continue to bother me, or shall I indulge my sweet tooth?", and twice to Montaron, getting "Will ye shut up, or must we come to jabs?" I had also twice gotten Jaheira saying to Xzar "You're very amusing, in a 'What the hell is wrong with you?' sort of way," with Xzar once responding "Be quiet, ye annoying harlot."
Then, when I went up to Minsc, and booted Xzar and Montaron at the same time, I got these parting threats instead of the dialogues I had always seen before, and I assume these dialogues mean they are now gone forever from this run:
I don't know if it's visible in the screen shot, but I had roleplayed that Xzar had a fascinated attraction to the ogre's shiny, gold-plated belt, and had insisted on taking it for his and putting it on, becoming, Xzarina. And he was fine with that.
I had kept the evil duo with me much longer than I usually would, roleplaying that my wise lawful good paladinesque fighter-cleric would think that they were needed. Xzar's Larloch's Minor Drains had helped us on several occasions against very dangerous enemies, as had Monty's crossbow. ("Missile Weapons" proficiency gives flexibility for crossbows and darts, not just slings, yay BG1 weapon proficiencies!)
Because of several completed quests, our reputation was pretty high. I noticed that the character dialogues seem to trigger much more often in original BG1. I had already gotten Khalid's (paraphrasing) "I don't mean to be a bother, but... umm...could you be less... I don't know... um.... evil" three times. Once was to Xzar, where he got "Will you continue to bother me, or shall I indulge my sweet tooth?", and twice to Montaron, getting "Will ye shut up, or must we come to jabs?" I had also twice gotten Jaheira saying to Xzar "You're very amusing, in a 'What the hell is wrong with you?' sort of way," with Xzar once responding "Be quiet, ye annoying harlot."
Then, when I went up to Minsc, and booted Xzar and Montaron at the same time, I got these parting threats instead of the dialogues I had always seen before, and I assume these dialogues mean they are now gone forever from this run:
I don't know if it's visible in the screen shot, but I had roleplayed that Xzar had a fascinated attraction to the ogre's shiny, gold-plated belt, and had insisted on taking it for his and putting it on, becoming, Xzarina. And he was fine with that.
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And, he originally came at level two, which helps compensate for the lack of bow proficiency:
I decided to test BG2 with Tweaks "BG1 weapon proficiencies without weapon styles." And Minsc had this:
So apparently when Tweaks was written, it was decided to drop Minsc's axe proficiency for this option in favor of bows and blunt weapons. That's interesting, because it gives the player the option to have Minsc use mace and shield, sword and shield, or bow and quarterstaff, or bow and sword. (Original BG did not allow carrying a shield together with a bow or two-handed weapon, and the game could not be paused in combat to switch items in inventory. BG2 changed to allow pausing on inventory screen, but I prefer the BG realism of not being able to do that. )
Also, I've noticed that world map travel times are completely different than in the EE's, and frankly, much more logical. And, there's no overlapping of scaled world map labels where you can't see them. In the original game, you hover your mouse pointer over the map module you're considering traveling to, and after a couple of seconds, then it shows you on a tool tip what will be the travel time.
I wonder if the no-reloaders would be able to no-reload the original game without the ability to pause on their inventory screens? Has it ever been done?
Also, what the heck were they thinking removing the southern woods of Beregost away from the town to a four hour hike, when it's supposed to be zero hours distance, like the temple map? The child on the southern woods map tells you the town is right there, the gnome in the inn implies his boots are right there, and the letter to Miriam implies the town is right there.
It was a very steep climb back?
Well you could rp that Charname and all of his/her allies are severely OCD and thus know exactly to the nearest millimeter where every item is stored in their pockets, in their bags of holding and in their knapsack/fanny packs. Sounds believable to me...
Ah yes... (Singing like Archie and Edith)... "Those were the daaaaays."
-Magic items show number of charges. They didn't in original.
-Walking speed is so much faster. This is a boon when you've played the game 1,001 times before.
-Current action icons on portraits are extremely helpful in managing combat.
-Zoom ability is very nice.
-Innate widescreen without a mod, and high resolution are very nice. Looks beautiful, and a huge improvement over the original.
-Blue interface is pleasing on non-SoD version of EE. (I cannot *stand* the hideous black interface of SoD. That alone is a reason I may never play SoD again.)
-Kind of a no-brainer, but access to BG2 kits is nice. I was able to make my cleric a cleric of Lathander, with the appropriate kit. No Tutu plus DeGreenifier, or BGT needed. That's a big plus for me.
-Pathfinding is amazingly better than before. If you don't believe it, start a game of original BG1 and play a few hours, like I did.
-Quickspell buttons work as intended. In original, they cleared as soon as the spells were all cast, rendering them not nearly as useful. You had to keep resetting them every time you rested.
-I really like the colored circles. That was my favorite feature of EE when it first came out, and is still a favorite feature. The color sliders are also very nice, including a lot more colors than you could have in original.
-The quickloot bar is very nice. It's a shortcut that reduces realism, but again, when you've played 1,001 times before, it's just nice to have shortcuts from having to manually click on everything.
-If I want "no pause on inventory screen", I can just house rule it in and not go to inventory screens during combat. It's like not wanting to cheesily spam resting. Just don't push the darn button but once every 16 hours.
-Permanently toggled on highlighting of containers and doors is *really* nice. Again, it's especially nice when you've already played 1,001 times.
-Seeing enemy health really helps game play. In original BG, you could not see *any* indication of how injured or not injured your opponents were.
-Hit point totals on portraits are very helpful. In original, you didn't get that. You had to cursor over a portrait or avatar and wait for a tool tip to see your hit points. And, that didn't work on enemies.
-Point of interest markers on city maps are very helpful. Original didn't have them. The city maps were blank, and you couldn't even highlight doors. I never found Kagain's shop or Firebead's house in original BG1.
I had forgotten how truly bad the journal used to be. Every quest update is just put in there in a big, disorganized list as soon as you get it. It's almost impossible to keep track or find anything specific.
The EE updated journal feature is extremely helpful, in how it sorts all quest chains into listed tabs, and marks them "finished" when they are done. I understand a few quests still don't sort into the journal properly or mark as "finished" properly after completion, but most of them work beautifully, and boy, is that ever an improvement.
Playing the original for a while and then immediately going back to EE can really make you appreciate just how much has been improved. I had quaint, nostalgic fun with the original, and as I was feeling at the beginning, there are a few things I miss from it, but I don't guess I want to give up all the cushy luxury of the modern version as a regular thing, after all.
I'll probably still try the original every couple of years as nostalgia, and then go back to EE. This thread is the second time I've done it and posted about it in the past few years.
Overall, the EEs are way more stable and a big improvement. But there are some issues because...
Yup. Nah.
The sprites are pretty unforgivable, as is the mish-mash of art styles. BG1 is a low-level adventure with a lot of exploring wilderness and dungeons, so the sprites looked crisp and the style is somewhat plain. BGII is a high-level adventure with a whole lot of magic and mystery, so the sprites look smooth and the style is more alien. I always enjoyed the distinction between the two. I would gladly throw out dual-wielding in BG:EE to get the non-mirrored character sprites back.
Obviously, different players have different priorities. So I'm not suggesting my opinion is the only valid one. But, definitely some things I miss about vanilla. Still, Beamdog was more careful at maintaining BG1's integrity than TuTu/Trilogy was, so good for them for trying.
I believe Baldur's Gate 2 changed it to 40. EE increased it to 80.
It was wonderful from a convenience standpoint, but it often crosses my mind how absurd it is that my archer can carry over 1,000 arrows and they dont even weigh anything! I seriously have never seen any archer carry more than about 20-50 arrows at any one time in RL or even the movies.
It doesn't bother me enough not to take advantage though! It's kinda the same guilty ping I feel when I read the Protection from Undead scroll before I take on Kangaxx. It's like a momentary flutter in my stomach that soon passes...
But carrying an unrealistically large number of projectiles is I think a necessary side effect of the game mechanics.
1) You cannot recover any used projectiles (or even the arrowheads for use on new shafts) - this is somewhat realistic.
2) You face hundreds of enemies. (this is kind of maybe a little realistic, if you accept the plot and also a bunch of silly rules about how your enemies choose to fight you in small groups even as you slaughter your way through their homes)
3) Enemies have many Hitpoints and arrows do very little damage. (this is not realistic, though BG1 is much better in this regard than BG2)
Overall, Baldur's Gate is a game. You need no food or sleeping bag. Every piece of armor always fits everyone, regardless of their size. The game does not keep track of your dental hygiene. The elves in your party never comment that you should really take a bath even though you honestly should. Yes, this is an appeal to worse problems. My point is simply that since I am running on Suspension of Disbelief anyway, I do not really care about the numbers of arrows I carry any more than I care about Minsc's ability to carry six suits of plate armor in his backpack.
But seriously, I never intend to play vanilla again. Things like the summon limit aren't ideal, but killing Sarevok with a literal summoned army was lame. Also how I finally beat the damn game the first time. Vanilla Sarevok was tough, though I think the present setup is pretty challenging, unless you know the ways to disrupt things.
Oh, and darts/slings/throwing daggers and axes are nearly unuseable in vanilla due to teeny stacks.
In fairness though, in the original game Sarevok had 100% Magic Resistance, which pretty much left my pure Mage with nothing to do but summon wave after wave of monsters to keep Sarevok occupied. I considered the tactic a fair trade off considering my character could otherwise do nothing else to him. :P So, SO many Hobgoblins ("SPARE NO ONE!") sacrificed themselves for my victory that day.
My first successful PC was a C/I, and I was more or less stuck forever until I just used up a Wand of Summoning and animated an army of the dead. I have no idea how I killed Aec even.
Kite
Thief
Stealth
Dagger of Venom backstab
Drink potion of invisibility
Run away
Repeat
Game over, Vanillavok.
He has 90% MR in BGEE, just like he did in the original.