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I hope there will be no references at all to Abdel Adrian

_Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 150
edited June 2019 in Baldur's Gate III
For those who do not know, in 1999 Philip Athans wrote a novel based on the Baldur's Gate story, and CHARNAME is named Abdel Adrian: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abdel_Adrian
This novelization was poorly received because:
1) rather dull and uninspiring main character;
2) completely ignoring many established facts within the videogames (i.e. Adrian is not a naive young dweller of Candlekeep who flees and discover the rest of the world for the first time, he's an already seasoned warrior who became a mercenary as a teenager) and altering the personality of characters or even their appearance (i.e. Minsc is not our beloved huge crazy bald ranger, he has long red hair, he's no longer a warrior and he's smaller than Adrian);
3) introducing fixed unpopular canonical events, ignoring the free choices from the videogames (i.e. Adrian is a chaotic neutral fighter, what side he tooks in Athkatla, what choice he makes at the end of ToB etc.);
4) many of these choices are really bad and poorly written (i.e. what happens to Imoen and Jaheira and what they do);
5) randomly killing popular characters and throwing them away as they didn't matter.

Unfortunately, since Wizard of the Coast requires standard canons for its settings, these novels are regarded as canon in the Forgotten Realms lore and official campaigns set after 1369DR will necessarily take them into account. Thus Murder in Baldur's Gate is based upon the ultimate fate of Adrian, for example.

However, the videogames of Baldur's Gate tell our personal stories of CHARNAME, not Adrian's tales.

I hope that Baldur's Gate III won't reference at all Abdel Adrian, but rather mantain obscure and unknown the fate of Charname.
What kind of Bhaalspawn was he? Some say he or she was a powerhungry brawler, other a wise diviner, other a force of balance in nature, or rather an opportunist rogue. Some say he or she was a human, an half-elf or an half-orc. Some bards sing that he or she rescued a keep in Amn and protected its mage princess from a douchebag pretender, but some bartenders say that he or she instead usurped that keep and ruled with cruelty.
Nobody knows. All we know he's called the Stig.
What did he ultimately do? Some people say he rejected his divine power and spent the rest of his years alone in Candlekeep, other people say that instead she went abroad travelling to the most distant corners of Faerun, some bards sing that he took a fake identity and became one of the dukes of Baldur's Gate before being murdered, other ones tell that she ascended to divinity as a mysterious goddess and then vanished, and so on... nobody really knows.
Only players might know.

I would be rather disappointed to know that everything I did in Baldur's Gate is erased because of a quite bad novel written after the original game was created.

Post edited by _Connacht_ on
IseweinSjerrieCrevsDaakGrammarsaladUnderstandMouseMagicgorgonzolajackjackInconnulolienButtercheese
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Comments

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 362
    They've talked a lot about player agency in BG3. I'm sure they will respect that from BG1 and 2 as well and have vague references at best if it will be relevant after a hundred years.

  • deserkdeserk Member Posts: 35
    edited June 2019
    It will almost certainly be Abdel Adrian as he was the former Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate per the latest DnD 5e adventure books dealing with that city. And I don't think it matters either way, this is going to be a new story from the sounds of it and that will become the focus, as its not overly tied to the Bhaalspawn plot of the past games (which I personally welcome, it would be tiresome to have to fight another Bhaalspawn baddie as a main plot).

    Sjerriebyrne20
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    In the new P&P supplement Heroes of Baldur's Gate, she or he's simply referred to as "Gorion's Ward". I think that's a fine sollution. Some general hints at the original Bhaal-Saga and some of the significant events like the Iron Crisis, Jon Irenicus or the war of the Bhaal-Spawn. Generally, however, I'd keep the references to a minimum. This game shouldn't about loads of cameos but about a new adventure in a familiar setting.

    To me, the game should have recognition value for veterans of the old game but work perfectly fine on its own.

    IseweinCrevsDaakGrammarsaladArcanis
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 707
    edited June 2019
    If they do not let import your savegame info from tob (I do not think that is going to happen), at least I expect to be able to create your own history with a tool, like they have done in DAI and deadfire 2; or with a dialog in the prologue of the game, like in KOTOR.

    Read that novels too, hate`em. When Imoen and Melissan started a romance my eyes rolled so much to the back of my head that I have to stop reading...

    SjerrieGrammarsaladButtercheese
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,135
    I VERY much doubt that BG3 will reference Abdel Adrian at all, given how it would create a huge sense of player conflict among veterans of the first two BG games. I suspect they might toss in a few references to Gorion's Ward here and there, and they might even have some long-lived companions (read: elves, possibly dwarves too) show up for some cameos, but they will probably avoid any overt crossover data between the games. From what I hear, BG3 is set about 100 years after the events of ToB, so most of the Wards would be long dead and gone by then.

    Grammarsalad
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,183
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    IWhen Imoen and Melissan started a romance...

    WUT o.O

    Even more glad I never touched the books, my desire for more BG back in the day could have easily made me get hardcovers or something.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,045
    I haven't read the books, so I couldn't care less. As far as BG3 goes I figure the most we'll see of him is the name, and honestly the name Abdel Adrian is the least annoying thing about the character. I actually think it's pretty good.

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    edited June 2019
    Every month the same discussions on the books. I feel left out. Someone please send me all the books. I want to make my own judgements on their content.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 707
    edited June 2019
    lroumen wrote: »
    Every month the same discussions on the books. I feel left out. Someone please send me all the books. I want to make my own judgements on their content.

    I do not hate you enough for that...
    I had them on paper. I doubt a 1999 book is still on retail but I suppose you can find them in amazon, or you can try draw a pentagram, sacrifice a virgin and say Abdel Adrian three times in front of a mirror. I am sure will appear a demonic living nightmare of the lower and darkest pits of the abyss, the first of the books or something equally frightening.

    I can´t believe that thing became canon.

    SjerrieGrammarsaladPermidion_Starklolien
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    Yeah, I think it'd be way better if they had to namecheck the Bhaalspawn in discussing the past events relevant to the game if they just said "the Bhaalspawn" or even by referring to deeds we all would've done in order to beat BG I and II. I kinda hope they include little nods to Siege of Dragonspear here and there tbqh especially given how it kinda seems like WotC stole Beamdog's BG III illithid idea and gave it to Larian.

    scriver
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 150
    edited June 2019
    Iroumen wrote:
    Every month the same discussions on the books. I feel left out. Someone please send me all the books. I want to make my own judgements on their content.

    Trust me, you don't want to read them.

    Post edited by _Connacht_ on
    Balrog99WarChiefZekeGrammarsalad
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,183
    elminster wrote: »
    Minsc for instance doesn't have red hair

    Do we know that for a fact? I seem to remember him having no hair at all, so who knows what color it would be if he actually grew it out... ;)

    scriver
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,497
    he had no hair in the statue comic.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,339
    out of the 3 novels, bg2 was absolutely ass awful terrible, jon irenicus was so LAME in that novel, man did that ever annoy the piss out of me

    and as far as imoen "romance" goes, i believe she was "having one" with phaere not melissan, but its been almost 20 years since i read the ToB novel, and in fact speaking about ToB, out of the 3, i think the ToB novel was the best one

    first one way okay, has some moments, it was kind of neat how korax joined the team for a while

    second one just had ass written all over it, although yoshimo lasted longer in that novel than the game, so that was kind of nice

    and the third one, i will give it some cred, it was alright, how sarevok finally peaced out i thought was kind of cool, the battle with balthazar was very interesting, so not complete vomit inducing

    but even with that said, the novels over all were meh

    but especially the 2nd one, man did that one piss me off ( i read these books in a goofy order where i read ToB first, bg1 second, bg2 last ) so i was so excited to hear how bg2 went and it was just not stop raining diarrhea nose deep, and here i was outside with no umbrella, quite disappointed

    megamike15lolien
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,153
    edited June 2019
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    elminster wrote: »
    Minsc for instance doesn't have red hair

    Do we know that for a fact? I seem to remember him having no hair at all, so who knows what color it would be if he actually grew it out... ;)

    Considering he had flowing red hair in the novels. I'm going to go with yea we know it for a fact. :)

    Also while its possible to have eyebrows that are a different colour than your hair, odds are based on his eyebrows that his hair (were it to exist) would be brown.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,992
    What. It isn't Abdel in the trailer? :)

    DreadKhanlolien
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,183
    mlnevese wrote: »
    What. It isn't Abdel in the trailer? :)

    While I would enjoy seeing "Abdel" go through that, established canon would have him 1) at least 7ft, 2) grey-haired and 3) dead. ;)

    mlneveseGrammarsaladDJKajuru
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,992
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    mlnevese wrote: »
    What. It isn't Abdel in the trailer? :)

    While I would enjoy seeing "Abdel" go through that, established canon would have him 1) at least 7ft, 2) grey-haired and 3) dead. ;)

    Maybe he was resurrected, used a wish spell to get younger and then was infected by an accelerated mind flyer? There is always hope... :)

    Grammarsaladlolien
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 150
    Then it wouldn't be Baldur's Gate but Lost.

  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,183
    mlnevese wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    mlnevese wrote: »
    What. It isn't Abdel in the trailer? :)

    While I would enjoy seeing "Abdel" go through that, established canon would have him 1) at least 7ft, 2) grey-haired and 3) dead. ;)

    Maybe he was resurrected, used a wish spell to get younger and then was infected by an accelerated mind flyer? There is always hope... :)

    Lol. That would be in line with the books, as in, laughable bad writing. :D

    PsicoVicmlnevese
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,497
    the ie games [ so baldurs gate 1 and 2, ice wind dale 1 and 2, and planescape torment] and the neverwinter nights games are imo the only games based on dnd worth playing.

    before you say " what about gold box.?" before my time and has not aged welll imo.

    WarChiefZekeThacoBellPsicoVic
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 362
    I just recently replayed all the gold box games on GOG. Still fun. But more pixels is definitely better for the visual experience. =)

    SjerrieGrammarsaladSkatanGyor
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 707
    edited June 2019
    megamike15 wrote: »
    the ie games [ so baldurs gate 1 and 2, ice wind dale 1 and 2, and planescape torment] and the neverwinter nights games are imo the only games based on dnd worth playing.

    before you say " what about gold box.?" before my time and has not aged welll imo.

    I kinda liked "Temple of Elemental Evil" too, but it was very short.

    GrammarsaladSjerrieBalrog99
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,287
    edited June 2019
    I much preferred it when in FR canon they simply referenced the protagonist of BG/SoA/ToB as "Gorion's Ward" and left it at that! I hope BG III retcons it to that.

    In a tabletop PnP game it's up to the DM who this character will be, if that information matters to the game or to a character, etc. Ed Greenwood has said it's up to each individual to customize the Realms in their own unique way, and to be creative with it. The setting is the gamer's (via CRPG)/gamers' (with a tabletop game) sandbox.

    But anyway, I agree with OP and hope Larian/WotC leave any reference to the the hero of the Bhaalspawn saga vague.

    Actually, one really cool feature of BG III would... if there is any reference to Gorion's Ward... be to allow the player to customize it! I.e., if the player wishes to create the build and name the character. Not that this character would necessarily appear as a NPC... although, actually, come to think of it, it might be cool if the that player designed character does make a minor cameo as a NPC...

    Just running with this idea, if there was a mechanism to import a PC from BG, SoA, or ToB and translate him or her into the BG III engine's version, with some customization options for appearance, I know I would dig that.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    Sjerriemlnevese
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 707
    edited June 2019
    Lemernis wrote: »
    I much preferred it when in FR canon they simply referenced the protagonist of BG/SoA/ToB as "Gorion's Ward" and left it at that! I hope BG III retcons it to that.

    In a tabletop PnP game it's up to the DM who this character will be, if that information matters to the game or to a character, etc. Ed Greenwood has said it's up to each individual to customize the Realms in their own unique way, and to be creative with it. The setting is the gamer's (via CRPG)/gamers' (with a tabletop game) sandbox.

    But anyway, I agree with OP and hope Larian/WotC leave any reference to the the hero of the Bhaalspawn saga vague.

    Actually, one really cool feature of BG III would... if there is any reference to Gorion's Ward... to allow the player to customize it! I.e., if the player wishes to create the build and name the character. Not that this character would necessarily appear as a NPC... although, actually, come to think of it, it might be cool if the that player designed character does make a minor cameo as a NPC...

    Just running with this idea, if there was a mechanism to import a PC from BG, SoA, or ToB and translate him or her into the BG III engine's version, with some customization options for appearance, I know I would dig that.

    I think we were talking about the same elsewhere, and like I said there are games that did it, not only importing games (which would be awesome). In the DaO and PoE franchise they gave you tools to create your own backstory that you can import when you start the game; in KOTOR2 you set the sex and decisions of Revan in KOTOR via dialog in the prologue.
    In DAI you can even modify the hair and head of Hawke, the MC of the previous game, to suit your own.

    Sooo, It can be done.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,287
    edited June 2019
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Sooo, It can be done.

    Yeah, just plug in variables such as name, alignment, gender, race, class, etc., to the story of BG III. That's certainly easy enough.

    I think there should be some customization options for what choices the character makes after defeating Mellisan, like the epilogue to ToB. Like at the end you have the option to choose for CHARNAME to become a demigod or remain mortal, etc. Provided that that doesn't affect the main BG III storyline.

    Sjerrie
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